Roy, Hasek, Brodeur = untouchables?

[ElLeetch]

I don't understand how people can think Brodeur does not belong in this tier. Dude won 3 Cups and 4 Vezinas. He won four Vezinas in 6 years. Dude was awesome.

because his team basically created a system so that he would almost never get tested. Playing behind that hockey-killing system will always haunt him.

 

[SladeWilson23]

Hasek was a backup for the first 3 seasons of his career, and split time with 41 GP his final season at age 43. He was a starter every year in between.

Brodeur didn't play more then 70% of his teams games until his 4th season in the league, and Roy didn't do it until his 8th season. Strikes me as an arbitrary argument.

Brodeur's reliability and durability is something that gets ignored. No goalie comes close to the number of games Brodeur has. Average or mediocre goalies don't get to play that many games.

 

[SladeWilson23]

because his team basically created a system so that he would almost never get tested. Playing behind that hockey-killing system will always haunt him.

False narrative.

 

[Spirit of McMullen]

The '93 Habs have to be the worst team to win the Cup since the Original Six. 10 OT wins in one playoff?

Not sure why people always say this. That team had Denis Savard and a mix of awesome veteran forwards with 1,000 point careers, vets, young up & comers, etc, like Damphousse, Muller, Bellows, John LeClair and an underrated captain in Carbononeau. And the defense wasn't full of stars, but still solid with the likes of Matthieu Schnieder, Erik Desjardins and JJ Daigneault.

That's actually a pretty decent team, looking back it at it now. It's not flashy, but it's not the "worst".
And many players like LeClair & Damphousse went on to have really good careers after that Cup.

At the time, if one were watching in 1993 and would have compared that team to the Penguins, Rangers or Kings, it perhaps got that reputation. Because that was a Cup winner that didn't feature a Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, etc, because that's what we were used to seeing for a period of consecutive years, with that year being the outlier.

 

[SladeWilson23]

I think overall Brodeur has the better regular season track record. It's worth mentioning that Roy retired in 2003 at 38 years old and still one of the best goalies in the league. He had nothing left to prove, but he could have played longer and padded his all-time numbers. Probably not enough to prevent Brodeur from breaking the wins record, but you know. While Brodeur did win 3 Cups and certainly could be considered clutch, Roy won 4 Cups and 3 Conn Smythes. In '01 when they faced off in the SCF, I will concede that Roy had the better team, but the Devils had them beat. Up 3-2 in the series, and dominating Game 6, Roy stood tall while Brodeur wilted. The Game 7 in Denver was more of a team effort, but the only thing that stopped the Devils from winning the Cup in '01 was Patrick Roy. What really does it for me was '93. The '93 Habs have to be the worst team to win the Cup since the Original Six. 10 OT wins in one playoff? It's what Hasek almost did in '99(putting a mediocre team on his back to win a Cup).

Brodeur took a mediocre 2003 Devils team and won the Cup. I'm also of the belief Brodeur was the best Devil in 2003, and if not for Giguere would have won the CS. Brodeur could have also won it in 95 when there was no true standout MVP of that team.

 

[SladeWilson23]

Not sure why people always say this. That team had Denis Savard and a mix of awesome veteran forwards with 1,000 point careers, vets, young up & comers, etc, like Damphousse, Muller, Bellows, John LeClair and an underrated captain in Carbononeau. And the defense wasn't full of stars, but still solid with the likes of Matthieu Schnieder, Erik Desjardins and JJ Daigneault.

That's actually a pretty decent team, looking back it at it now. It's not flashy, but it's not the "worst".
And many players like LeClair & Damphousse went on to have really good careers after that Cup.

At the time, if one were watching in 1993 and would have compared that team to the Penguins, Rangers or Kings, it perhaps got that reputation. Because that was a Cup winner that didn't feature a Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, etc, because that's what we were used to saying for a period of consecutive years.

Agreed. I'm also of the belief the 2003 Devils were equally as bad as the 93 Habs.

Their leading scorer had 57 points (Elias).
John Madden was the 1C.
Scott Stevens was on the decline.

 

[Spirit of McMullen]

Brodeur took a mediocre 2003 Devils team and won the Cup. I'm also of the belief Brodeur was the best Devil in 2003, and if not for Giguere would have won the CS. Brodeur could have also won it in 95 when there was no true standout MVP of that team.

I agree that 1995 was the year for Brodeur to get the CS.

If you come back and win a Cup the season right after your rookie season, in which you lose in dramatic fashion in double OT of Game 7 of the ECF, in one of the most famous/historic playoff games-series ever and that doesn't break you or effect the rest of your career, but only drives you to do better and you succeed to the pinnacle of your respective sport the following season with impressive stats, then with all due respect to Claude Lemeiux and his 13 goals/16 points in 20 games, Brodeur was robbed of the CS he should have gotten.

 

[Spirit of McMullen]

Agreed. I'm also of the belief the 2003 Devils were equally as bad as the 93 Habs.

Their leading scorer had 57 points (Elias).
John Madden was the 1C.
Scott Stevens was on the decline.

More than on the decline, he was playing through a concussion that he didn't know he had from being hit hit by a puck by Pavel Kubina. Daneyko was on his last hurrah and was being scratched for Oleg Tverdovsky. That's how bad he was. It was just Niedermayer and that was it. Rafalkski was meh.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Brodeur was in his prime from the beginning of his career until about 2010. From 93-94 through 2010, there were only 2 seasons where he wasn't a top 5-10 goalie.

And like I said, Roy had already played nearly ten years before that.

Brodeur didn’t start getting noticeable Vezina consideration until 1996. Like I stated before, whatever Roy “lacked” in the regular season(which wasn’t much), he made up for in the playoffs.

I’m not questioning Brodeurs dominance, only that Roy was the better goalie.

 

[ITM]

He was definitely underrated. He like Brodeur played on great defensive teams for much of his career, and it hurts his reputation. I still wouldn't put him in the tier of Brodeur, Roy, or Hasek.

It was Jacques Martin while in conversation for Team Canada goaltenders who actually noted Belfour’s record in head to head match-ups.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Brodeur took a mediocre 2003 Devils team and won the Cup. I'm also of the belief Brodeur was the best Devil in 2003, and if not for Giguere would have won the CS. Brodeur could have also won it in 95 when there was no true standout MVP of that team.

This is more of a false narrative. They may not have been like the previous Devils teams, but still very much a strong team. Especially defensively. That year they had the lowest GA in the league with the best PK. Brodeur was a part of a team that didn’t allow a lot of shots against him and was built to be defensively aware.

 

[dragonballgtz]

False narrative.

No it's not. If anyone remembers you always heard in broadcasts about how even though Brodeur didn't see a lot of pucks he was still sharp in net. They brought up that most goalies needed to see a good bit of action to keep rhythm in a game, but Brodeur was the reverse of that.

 

[SladeWilson23]

This is more of a false narrative. They may not have been like the previous Devils teams, but still very much a strong team. Especially defensively. That year they had the lowest GA in the league with the best PK. Brodeur was a part of a team that didn’t allow a lot of shots against him and was built to be defensively aware.

So they were a great defensive team is what you're saying.

 

[SladeWilson23]

No it's not. If anyone remembers you always heard in broadcasts about how even though Brodeur didn't see a lot of pucks he was still sharp in net. They brought up that most goalies needed to see a good bit of action to keep rhythm in a game, but Brodeur was the reverse of that.

It is a false narrative that Brodeur had an easy job. Truth is the Devils allowed just as many high danger chances as any other team. The quality of a team's defense shows up in shot attempts, and not scoring chances.

 

[SladeWilson23]

And like I said, Roy had already played nearly ten years before that.

Roy was still in his prime.

Brodeur didn’t start getting noticeable Vezina consideration until 1996. Like I stated before, whatever Roy “lacked” in the regular season(which wasn’t much), he made up for in the playoffs.

I’m not questioning Brodeurs dominance, only that Roy was the better goalie.

You act as if Brodeur didn't have one of the best playoff resumes for goalies. He did. So anything Brodeur lacked in the playoffs (which wasn't much), he made up for in the regular season.

 

[shadow1]

It'll be tough because these three have a unique combination of talent/longevity, and the hardware to go along with it.

To me, Luongo and Lundqvist are two of the all time greats, but due to a combination of factors fall into the "Curtis Joseph" tier

 

[BahlDeep]

And let's be honest, Brodeur was robbed from the CS in 2003.

3 shutouts including game 7 shutout in a stanley cup finals

 

[GreatGonzo]

So they were a great defensive team is what you're saying.

Definitely weren’t “mediocre” like you claimed. If anyone had to drag around Mediocre teams for awhile it was Hasek.

Roy was still in his prime.

You act as if Brodeur didn't have one of the best playoff resumes for goalies. He did. So anything Brodeur lacked in the playoffs (which wasn't much), he made up for in the regular season.

He was, but at the tail end. There is a difference.

Your flipping the entire argument. I never acted or said anything, but Roy has 3 smythes and 4 cups, with the most playoff wins. That’s the difference. Brodeur OBVIOUSLY has one of the best playoff resumes for a goalie, but your defense is that I’m clearly saying he doesn’t because Roys is better.

 

[HansonBro]

Brodeur doesn't belong in the same conversation as Hasek and Roy.

Ouch

 

[SladeWilson23]

Definitely weren’t “mediocre” like you claimed. If anyone had to drag around Mediocre teams for awhile it was Hasek.

They definitely were worse than any of the SC teams Roy played on.

He was, but at the tail end. There is a difference.

Your flipping the entire argument. I never acted or said anything, but Roy has 3 smythes and 4 cups, with the most playoff wins. That’s the difference. Brodeur OBVIOUSLY has one of the best playoff resumes for a goalie, but your defense is that I’m clearly saying he doesn’t because Roys is better.

You're right, Brodeur had a W-L of 30-35 in the playoffs from 2004 through 2012. He did tail off, but I doubt a peak Roy would have done much with the post lockout Devils. I also do believe Brodeur at 40 was the MVP of the 2012 run for the Devils.

My entire point is that it isn't so cut and dry. I don't see this clear gap between the two like you do.

 

[BurntToast]

Broduer 50pts-Hasek 20pts. Broduer is better. Roy, Hasek, Broduer are all legends.

7 goalies have been inducted into the HOF since the 90s. 1 was from the 60s. As it stands now, no goalie in the league now comes close to the top 5 GOATs. Louongo and Lundqvist might be the only HOFs of the bunch. Fluery/Murray have the cups but they work better as a tandem. Goalies are a casualty of the product. NHL wants more scoring/faster game play. Plus, 3 v 3 can not be helping anyone’s stats.

 

[Riddum]

I think Vasilevskiy has a chance to be one of the best when all is said and done if that's what you're asking?

Vas is not that good.

 

[NJDevils7]

So ironic that people say Brodeur was a product of the system / trap. His puck handling abilities were the most important part of the system...

 

[Lukin1978]

I'm a huge Roy fan but my list is
Hasek
Roy
Brodeur
In that order

 

[GrkFlyersFan]

And let's be honest, Brodeur was robbed from the CS in 2003.

3 shutouts including game 7 shutout in a stanley cup finals

As I recall, Niedermayer finished ahead of Brodeur in the voting, and calm down, two of those were 16 saves.