1997-98
Prior to his first game with the Vancouver Canucks, Mark Messier had already played 1,324 regular season games and 236 playoff games for a total of
1,560 games of professional hockey (WHA/NHL). Much of his career after this point is a disaster that somehow becomes the focal point of every discussion about Messier on HOH. How does the length of his pre-Vancouver career compare to the length of the full careers of some of the other Centers in this round (leaving out Lalonde, Nighbor, and Taylor)?
Name
|
RS GP
|
P GP
|
Total GP
|
GP to #11
Bobby Clarke
|1144|136|1280|-280
Phil Esposito
|1282|130|1412|-148
Stan Mikita
|1394|155|1549|-11
Joe Sakic
|1378|172|1550|-10
Bryan Trottier
|1279|221|1500|-60
Steve Yzerman
|1514|196|1710|+150
* Only Yzerman recorded more games than Messier did prior to the 1997-98 season, so comparing the downside of Messier's career (1997-98 to 2003-04) to that of a player who hadn't played enough to reach his equivalent of
Vancouver years needs to be taken into consideration.
* Messier recorded his 1,560th game in 1996-97. It was a 1.18 point-per-game season (7th in the league), book-ended by seasons of 1.34 (Hart nomination) and 0.73 (Vancouver).
* Yzerman recorded his 1,560th game in 2003-04. It was a 0.68 point-per-game season, book-ended by seasons of 0.50 and 0.56 (retirement).
* Mikita recorded his 1,324th regular season game in 1978-79. It was a 0.85 point-per-game season, book-ended by seasons of 0.78 and 0.41 (retirement).
* Sakic recorded his 1,324th regular season game in 2007-08. It was a 0.91 point-per-game season, book-ended by seasons of 1.22 (8th in the league) and 0.80 (retirement). He probably could have been a Hart nominee - a la John Tavares - had the Avalanche made the playoffs in 2006-07 (missed by a tie-breaker).
* Yzerman recorded his 1,324th regular season game in 2001-02. It was a 0.92 point-per-game season followed by a Conn Smythe worthy playoff.
Though a very physical player, Mark Messier only played 70 GP or fewer three times leading up to the Vancouver years (1985, 1986, 1991). He did, however, often miss an average of 5 games in the other seasons, which can certainly impact the raw scoring race - even though he had basically played the full season.
From 1982-83 to 1996-97, Mark Messier ranked top-ten in either points or points-per-game 10 times (in 15 seasons). The years without such a placement include the three aforementioned injury seasons, as well as 1993 and 1994.
Bobby Clarke had eight seasons in the top-ten (two fewer).
Phil Esposito had ten seasons in the top-ten (same).
Stan Mikita had ten seasons in the top-ten (same).
Joe Sakic had eleven seasons in the top-ten (one more).
Bryan Trottier had six seasons in the top-ten (four fewer).
Steve Yzerman had eight seasons in the top-ten (two fewer).
Only Joe Sakic exceeds the number of seasons Mark Messier spent as a de facto top-ten scorer in the NHL.
Mark Messier's NHL statistics up to this point were 575 Goals and 1,552 Points; fifth all-time and directly behind Phil Esposito. His 1.22 regular season points-per-game were exceeded by his 1.25 playoff points-per-game - which boosted his cumulative points-per-game marginally ahead of Phil Espositio's 1.22 (1,412 GP) despite already exceeding him in GP by nearly 100 GP. It was only after playing far beyond what Phil Esposito had played that Mark Messier's statistical record no longer resembled his offensively. While this does not acknowledge the obvious differences in era, differences in style of play, etc.
it is important to understand that Mark Messier was a 1.22/1.25 player at a time when he could have retired with more GP than everyone but Steve Yzerman (he finished his career 1.07/1.25 and often gets treated by younger posters as another Ron Francis offensively).
Around this time, The Hockey News' panel of writers, journalists, and broadcasters rated him the 4th best Center of all-time - behind Jean Beliveau, ahead of Howie Morenz.
Mark Messier's Seven Stanley Cup Finals
Year
|
GP
|
G
|
A
|
PTS
|
+/-
|
PTS/GP
1983
|15|15|6|21|N/A|1.40
1984
|19|8|18|26|+9|1.37
1985
|18|12|13|25|+13|1.39
1987
|21|12|16|28|+13|1.33
1988
|19|11|23|34|+9|1.79
1990
|22|9|22|31|+5|1.41
1994
|23|12|18|30|+14|1.30
* Never scored fewer than 25 points in a Stanley Cup winning run
* Was challenging Reggie Leach (19 Goals) in 1983 until separating his shoulder
* Scored an additional 100 playoff points outside of these runs
Quotes From the 1984-1990 Playoffs
George Johnson of The Calgary Herald said:
The destruction he could wreak was perhaps never better exhibited than in Game 7 of the 1984 series against the rival Flames.
That night, Messier proved to be a one-man war of attrition, knocking three Calgary players out of action during the decisive third period. Paul Reinhart had long since been stretchered off; Mike Eaves lay crumpled like a discarded cigarette pack in a corner after being run over ("It was as if he got hit by a bus," recalled Oilers goaltender Grant Fuhr. "There were tire tracks running up and down his back."); and Al MacInnis exited early after being cut down by a knee injury. All courtesy of one man.
Carnage. Sheer carnage. Messier carnage.
"That Messier!" Flames coach Badger Bob Johnson would growl after that game. "That Messier! He knocked three of our guys out of the game! Three! That was …" He stammered. "That was …" He glowered. "That was …" He paced the hallway, apparently enraged at the injustice of it all. "That was …" His face lapsed into a look above appreciation, arguably approaching awe. "Amazing!"
The Boston Globe said:
Should they prevail, [Mark Messier] stands to reap rewards beyond the shared glory of the Cup. As the triggerman of the Oilers' offense - and the neutralizing force that has helped shackle the Islanders' superlative center, Bryan Trottier - Messier has emerged as the frontrunner for the Conn Smythe Trophy, which is awarded to the most valuable player in the playoffs.
Exploiting his Mr. Universe physique and style, Messier has led an unprcedented Edmonton attack that has throttled the Islanders in Games 1 (a 1-0 victory), 3 and 4. As Wayne Gretzky, another Edmonton center, observed, "Forechecking is the best defense." And Messier has been the Oilers' foremost forechecker.
With 15 games left before the playoffs, Oilers coach Glen Sather decided to shift Messier to center on a line with Glenn Anderson and Willy Lindstrom. On the surface, it seemed like turning Barbra Streisand into a pantomimist, but Sather had his reasons.
Philadelphia Daily News said:
There are goals and there are goals. There are goals that nobody sees, and there are goals that nobody forgets. There are shots that carom off skate, pad and armpit on their way to the red light, and there are majestic offensive feats on which you could base a movie. Last night in Northlands Coliseum, it was Mark Messier of the Edmonton Oilers, screen-testing for Chariots of Ice.
The Calgary Herald said:
He is an intimidating sight, Mark Messier is - the new wave leader of hockey's new wave. He has been the most intimidating sight for New York Islanders.
"If the series ends Saturday, he will win the Conn Smythe Trophy," said teammate Dave Lumley.
The myths that have long surrounded Edmonton Oilers are quickly disappearing as are the myths that have surrounded Messier.
Long considered to be living and playing on the fringe, Messier not only has established himself with his Stanley Cup play, but has put to rest any of the Team Gretzky, Edmonton Gretzkys, one-man team commentaries that have so often afflicted the Oilers.
The Boston Globe said:
Yesterday morning, [Mark Messier] began communicating again. "He told me, I'm going to go out and lead this hockey team," recalled Kevin Lowe, Messier's teammate and housemate. "He's always determined, but he seemed especially so this morning."
The Calgary Herald said:
It took Trottier, the game's star, exactly 60 minutes and 10 seconds to get into the spirit of the final. The first 60 came in the first game when he made a negligible contribution to the Islanders' 1-0 loss. The 10 seconds came last night, when the Oilers' Mark Messier flattened him with one of the hardest playoff checks in the first minute of the game.
Star-Phoenix (Saskatoon) said:
And, unlike last spring, forward Mark Messier is healthy. Playing left wing last spring, Messier labored with a separated shoulder in the final and was easily nullified by the hard-checking Islanders.
"Gawd, it's nice to be going into the Stanley Cup final healthy," said Messier, now playing centre. "Last year I was hurt but I really didn't think much about it. I found myself getting caught up in the excitement. Still, the shoulder was significant."
This year the shoulder has been significant because of the solid hits it has been handing out. Those hits, the Oilers realize, will be essential in the final, especially if they again meet the Islanders.
"Mark is so strong and against their big guys, (Bryan) Trottier and (Denis) Potvin especially, that's important," Lowe said.
The Globe and Mail said:
"When Mark takes that little turn back into his own end and winds up, there's not too many guys in hockey can stop him," Winnipeg Jet coach Barry Long said.
"What he has going for him are his strength and speed. He's not a plodding-type player, and it takes a big person to counter that. We don't truly have the size at centre ice to do it. We had Laurie Boschman on him. Laurie tried, but he can't skate as well and he's not as strong."
And there's always the matter of Messier's temperament. Although he's a clean player most of the time, there have been enough departures from the straight and narrow to make opposition players wary. Messier has served suspensions for assaulting players with his stick, and the elbow that broke Valdimir Kovin's nose in the Canada Cup series would have landed Messier in the Lubyanka had it taken place in the Soviet Union.
"He has a little mean streak," a reporter suggested to Long.
"Little?" Long responded.
Long, a fairly rough player in his own day, laughed. "That's what makes him even scarier. The fact that he does have that mean streak is what separates him from ordinary people. But speed and size and meanness are what you look for when you're trying to draft a player. You want to draft a player that has all those three qualities. They got lucky with him."
In fact, Long said, the presence of Messier in the Oiler lineup is one of the reasons that Jet captain and scoring leader Dale Hawerchuk has not returned wearing a flak jacket to protect his cracked rib. Hawerchuk has been scratched from tonight's fourth - and probably final - game of the series. "It's Mark out there I don't trust," Long said. "He'd run right over his mother, so he'd for sure run over Dale Hawerchuk. And it's such a well-publicized injury. I don't think there's a kid in Canada who doesn't know what's broken."
When Long says things such as this about Messier, he says them with a tone of admiration, not bitterness. "I wouldn't expect anything else from the Oilers," he said. "If the situation were reversed, I wouldn't expect my guys to go out there and say, 'Oh-oh, we can't hit him.' You have to hit him."
The Globe and Mail said:
A local newspaper conducted a telephone poll of fans yesterday and they favored Coffey with 47.1 per cent of the vote, then Fuhr with 33.7 and Gretzky third at 19.2.
The question was put to someone who should know, Edmonton Oiler coach Glen Sather.
"Here's a question for you to dodge, Slats. Who deserves to win the Conn Smythe Trophy, Gretzky or Coffey?"
"I'm dodging that one. And, anyway, what about Grant Fuhr?"
"All right, then. Who's going to win the Conn Smythe Trophy, Gretzky, Coffey or Fuhr?"
"One of those three guys. But don't forget about Mark Messier."
Sather has a point. Messier, who won the trophy last year, also has been a major contributor this season. He was especially strong in the two middle series - against the Winnipeg Jets and the Chicago Black Hawks - and has been quietly effective against the Philadelphia Flyers. When the Oilers badly needed a win in the Spectrum, it was Messier who won 36 of 50 faceoffs.
The Globe and Mail said:
"We did a good job on Gretzky and just as good a job on Mark Messier," Demers continued. "We're just as afraid of him as we are of Gretzky. Messier comes at you like a bulldozer."
The Globe and Mail said:
The large and fearsome form of the Edmonton Oilers' Mark Messier has cast another shadow over the Stanley Cup hopes of the Philadelphia Flyers.
Mark Howe, the Flyers' superb veteran defenceman, is hobbling on a swollen left knee and bruised left leg, suffered in a collision in the first period of Edmonton's 4-2 win Sunday in the opening game of the Cup final.
While Howe says he will be ready for tomorrow night's second match, he did not skate with the team yesterday "and if I had to play tomorrow (today), I couldn't."
The Globe and Mail said:
At any time, in hockey, and especially in the playoffs, a good player will do much more than contribute to the offence. No one who plays the game professionally, even the greatest of superstars, is able to score every night. Sometimes, they can't even set up goals for others. But the quality players make their presence felt in every game, whether the average fan notices or not.
From the Edmonton Oilers ' point of view, the offensive star of the fourth game of the Stanley Cup finals against the Philadelphia Flyers was Wayne Gretzky. But equally important - perhaps even more so, if all things were considered - was Mark Messier.
As is usually the case, Messier handed out some punishing bodychecks -the kind that make any opponent lose his concentration. And he was excellent on faceoffs. When they held a two-goal lead, the Oilers were quite willing to slow down the play by taking faceoffs in their own end. Goaltender Grant Fuhr froze the puck whenever he had an opportunity, feeling confident that Messier would be able to win the ensuing faceoff and thereby relieve the pressure.
Messier's influence on the Oilers is often underestimated. Throughout his career, he has played in the shadow of Wayne Gretzky, and although most observers consider him to be one of the league's top 10 stars, he still can't escape being stereotyped as a backup - part of Gretzky's supporting cast. But the Oilers will tell you that when it comes to being a team leader, a clubhouse firebrand, nobody does it like Mark Messier. Nobody.
It was Messier who took charge when the National Hockey League's greatest players met in Quebec City for the Rendez-Vous '87 series. Although he had been designated no particular authority, he stood up and spelled out exactly what was expected of every player, right down to the nature of the pre-game warmup
"He just said, 'This is the way it's going to be,' " recalled the Washington Capitals' Rod Langway. "He told us everything we were going to do. Then he asked if anybody had any problems with that. Nobody did. We all just sat there. He was great."
It is also Messier who takes over when the Oilers need some sort of spark - as he decided they did when they went into the third period of the second game trailing 2-1 at home. And it was Messier, not coach Glen Sather, who did the shouting after Friday's game in Philadelphia. Messier exploded in the dressing room, telling his teammates that they had been guilty of throwing away a game that they should have won. He was especially unhappy with Esa Tikkanen for taking a retaliatory penalty which led to a Flyers goal.
"Who told you that?" asked Sather. "I'm surprised that anybody would talk about what went on in here. I believe that what is said in here, should stay in here."
But did Messier makes the speech or did he not? "Well," said Sather, "I think if anybody made a speech like that, Messier would be the guy." In fact, the words from Messier's speech were still ringing in his teammates' ears when they took to the ice last night.
The Globe and Mail said:
In a performance that will go down with some of the more memorable displays in playoff history, Mark Messier led the Edmonton Oilers to a 4-2 victory over the Chicago Blackhawks last night. Messier was everywhere. He scored two goals, set up two others and led the Oilers' strong checking game by example.
As a result, the Oilers tied the Campbell Conference best-of-seven final 2-2. The fifth game is tomorrow in Edmonton.
The Oilers considered the game to be crucial if they are to win another Stanley Cup. Not surprisingly, Messier came through when he was needed the most. He was easily the most visible player on the ice as he dominated the Blackhawks, both with his physical play and with his finesse. He earned an assist on the Oilers' first goal by Glenn Anderson. He blazed down the wing to pick up a loose puck before scoring their second. And he assisted on the third by Craig Simpson before scoring the fourth
goal on a breakaway.
In between, he was rattling Blackhawks against the boards, blocking shots and running interference for his teammates.
"When you really need it the most, he's there," said Oiler general manager Glen Sather. "He did it against the Islanders (when the Oilers won their first Stanley Cup). He has done it a lot through the years and he has done it a lot this year. He did it against Winnipeg when we were down."
1994
GO RANGAHS!! GRAVES! LEETCH! RICHTAH!! THE MESSIAH!! 
Let's be serious: The man is an icon. Very few Centers remaining have a moment
this big that is remembered for all of the right reasons (Bobby Clarke...). On the ice, we watched Messier lead the Rangers into stealing a losing game from the Devils and three of the generation's most poised players (Scott Stevens, Claude Lemieux, Martin Brodeur). It doesn't define his career - and it wasn't even his best playoff run, but it is the go-to moment when you want to talk about the it-factor that Mark Messier had as a playoff legend. His game against the Devils in 1994. His series against Chicago in 1990. His playoff run in 1984.
Conclusion
Mark Messier was offered a lot of money to play for Vancouver at a time when he had already played enough GP to justify hanging up the skates as a player with a very full career.
Only 14 other skaters in history had reached 1,324 regular season games when Mark Messier signed with the Canucks, and up until Chris Chelios and Nicklas Lidstrom, no other skater had reached 236 playoff games. That's a lot of hockey. But Vancouver offered a lot of money. And ice-time. And I'm not sure that liking these things makes someone a worse hockey player - even if we're all young enough (even Killion!) to have seen this particular player extend a 1st-ballot HOF career through the worst of it.
We're talking about $42 million between salary and bonuses from 1997-98 to 2003-04. They kept offering; he kept signing.
So, think of him as the legend he was, with a cumulative total of
684 Goals and 1,844 Points in 1,508 NHL Games while being relied on for face-offs, playing competent defensive hockey and a boatload of PK time, and without a trace of those awful compiling seasons.
Wait - he had
that many points as of 1997? Holy ****.
