Round 2: Top Manager Poll

[Live in the Now]

Part of being a top manager is doing it over and over again as well. I think Bielsa is around the top ten personally. He's great at identifying talent and put a lot of the foundations in place that made Chile successful. Some of the players he integrated into their national team were by no means obvious selections.

Most of those talents at Athletic went from developing very quickly to not developing whatsoever when he left.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Simeone

 

[Deficient Mode]

Except I made it clear I had a problem with the two german coaches, not the other two. Read what I wrote again.

And yes on style and influence as well as what you call "team transformation", Bielsa is easily top 10. Probably top 5. He also makes players progress more than almost any coach out there. I'd say his tactics have proven to be successful as well (see Athletic). Certainly more than a 3rd place in the german league.

I'm sorry? I didn't realize it was your rating of coaches that was in question, rather than my apparent German bias.

And no, Bielsa is definitely not easily a top 10 coach by any standard.

 

[Evilo]

I'm sorry? I didn't realize it was your rating of coaches that was in question, rather than my apparent German bias.

And no, Bielsa is definitely not easily a top 10 coach by any standard.

At least you develop intriguing arguments.

 

[Luigi Habs]

Bielsa is among the best coaches, yes you can argue he's top 10. Top clubs stay away from him because of his strong personality, he's a control freak. But if I had a young team, I can't think of many coaches I'd take over Bielsa. Amazing at identifying talent, really have a clear mind how he wants his clubs to play football, and usually gets the best out of his players.

 

[Evilo]

Naggelsman tearing it up tonight !

 

[Deficient Mode]

At least you develop intriguing arguments.

I've still made a more in-depth comment about Bielsa than you've made about any of the other managers in question.

So, here's one for you: why is Sarri acceptable but not Tuchel or Nagelsmann? What has Sarri achieved exactly?

Naggelsman tearing it up tonight !

Ahh yes, the Evilo special: judge a player or coach whom he knows nothing about based on two European matches. I knew that was coming lol.

 

[Evilo]

Not a fan of Sarri in the top 10. But he sure has more of a case than Nagelsmann.

What's the DM special? Rate any german coach as the second coming of Christ?

Actually I've been more in depth than you : I believe in achievements, which is why neither Bielsa nor Nageslman and co are top 10 coaches. You OTOH, aren't even logical with your arguments. Biesla is not a top 10 coach according to you but you value coaches exactly where he's the strongest at.
Failure in your argument all around.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Not a fan of Sarri in the top 10. But he sure has more of a case than Nagelsmann.

What's the DM special? Rate any german coach as the second coming of Christ?

Actually I've been more in depth than you : I believe in achievements, which is why neither Bielsa nor Nageslman and co are top 10 coaches.

Any German coach... thinks a grand total of 3 German coaches should be in the top 10. Wow. Meanwhile we have 3 Italian coaches whom I have no issue putting in the top 10 and I'm advocating for a fourth. Do I think every Italian coach is the second coming of Christ too???

You know nothing about Nagelsmann's tactics or achievements. He took a team that was dead last in the league at the halfway point and immediately made them a top 3 team for the rest of the year, and then kept them as a top 4 team the year after.

I'll ask again, why exactly do you have a problem with Tuchel (or Nagelsmann) but not with Sarri? What exactly has Sarri achieved that Tuchel hasn't? Not being from a country whose footballing success causes you immense resentment?

Funny to see you hype Bielsa so much lately after you constantly emphasized that he's loco two years ago.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Most of the best managers right now are from Argentina, Italy, and Germany. I'm so sorry I don't rate some of these French or Ligue 1 managers as highly as you do.

 

[Evilo]

Any German coach... thinks a grand total of 3 German coaches should be in the top 10. Wow. Meanwhile we have 3 Italian coaches whom I have no issue putting in the top 10 and I'm advocating for a fourth. Do I think every Italian coach is the second coming of Christ too???

You know nothing about Nagelsmann's tactics or achievements. He took a team that was dead last in the league at the halfway point and immediately made them a top 3 team for the rest of the year, and then kept them as a top 4 team the year after.

I'll ask again, why exactly do you have a problem with Tuchel (or Nagelsmann) but not with Sarri? What exactly has Sarri achieved that Tuchel hasn't? Not being from a country whose footballing success causes you immense resentment?

Funny to see you hype Bielsa so much lately after you constantly emphasized that he's loco two years ago.

So much stupidity here....
Sarri hasn't been fired for starters. And again, I didn't have him in my top 10.
Resentment? What? If you refer to 82, then yeah, but it's Schumacher (and the ref). That's particularly reaching here.

He's still loco. Can you link me to a post where I didn't rate him? Please do.

Taking Hoffenheim to top 3 or top 4 in Germany is apparently more important than having a tremendous season with Athletic, being voted as best international coach in 2001, winning 3 league titles, etc....
And again, I don't even rate Bielsa in the top 10.

Let's talk about Blanc then since you apparently say I only rate french coaches (which is laughable).
Blanc became coach and took a mid table team into L1 champs. His style was extremely clear and he brought it to every team he coached.
In the CL, he won a group with Juve and Bayern. 5 wins, 1 tie. Yes 5 wins, 1 tie.
Then he won basically every domestic competition with PSG (favourite, but hardly easy to win it all) and lost on away goals to Barca and Chelsea. His only downfall was losing to City his last coaching year.

Exactly WHAT has Nagelsman done to be a top 10 coach over Blanc? Or Tuchel BTW?
What? Coaching style? Nope. Develop players? Nope. Make some players overachieve? Nope (see Chamakh). Win titles? Nope. Excel in the CL? Nope.

So again, other than homerism, can you give some arguments to Naggeslman/Tuchel over Blanc?

 

[Evilo]

Most of the best managers right now are from Argentina, Italy, and Germany.

According to whom?

I personally don't rate many french coaches BTW. Blanc, DD (whom I don't like very much), ZZ (same as DD), Garcia, Gourcuff. Puel, but only for underdogs and young players.
Rest is mostly crap.

But Nagelsman or Tuchel over Blanc for instance is ridiculous.

 

[Deficient Mode]

So much stupidity here....
Sarri hasn't been fired for starters. And again, I didn't have him in my top 10.
Resentment? What? If you refer to 82, then year, but it's Schumacher (and the ref). That's particularly reaching here.

He's still loco. Can you link me to a post where I didn't rate him? Please do.

Taking Hoffenheim to top 3 or top 4 in Germany is apparently more important than having a tremendous season with Athletic, being voted as best international coach in 2001, winning 3 league titles, etc....
And again, I don't even see Bielsa in the top 10.

Let's talk about Blanc then since you apparently say I only rate french coaches (which is laughable).
Blanc became coach and took a mid table team into L1 champs. His style was extremely clear and he brought it to every team he coached.
In the CL, he won a group with Juve and Bayern. 5 wins, 1 tie. Yes 5 wins, 1 tie.
Then he won basically every domestic competition with PSG (favourite, but hardly easy to win it all) and lost on away goals to Barca and Chelsea. His only downfall was losing to City his last coaching year.

Exactly WHAT has Nagelsman done to be a top 10 coach over Blanc? Or Tuchel BTW?
What? Coaching style? Nope. Develop players? Nope. Make some players overachieve? Nope (see Chamakh). Win titles? Nope. Excel in the CL? Nope.

So again, other than homerism, can you give some arguments to Naggeslman/Tuchel over Blanc?

And Tuchel was fired for his results?

No, it's more your constant obsession with German fans rating any German player or manager as if it comes from a position of bias when you constantly insist you don't do the same for French players. Oh, and don't forget that you insisted L1 had surpassed the Bundesliga for a long time.

Best coach in 2001? I'm sorry, but that holds very little relevance to me here. Are you referring to Bielsa's Argentine titles 20+ years ago? Even less relevance.

Yes, I prefer Nagelsmann and Tuchel to Blanc as well. More sophisticated approach in possession and better pressing. Blanc's PSG didn't overly impress me in Europe and never reached where they should have for the talent on the team. His teams had some interesting facets but his tactics in the CL draws that they lost were really disappointing. At least in the past 5 years. This is after a rating of coaches now, and while you should have a sample size of several years, it is silly to point to a manager's primary achievements 9 years ago as reason why they are superior.

Bayern and Juventus weren't nearly as strong in 2009/10 as they have been recently. Disingenuous to suggest that they were.

 

[Deficient Mode]

According to whom?

I personally don't rate many french coaches BTW. Blanc, DD (whom I don't like very much), ZZ (same as DD), Garcia, Gourcuff. Puel, but only for underdogs and young players.
Rest is mostly crap.

But Nagelsman or Tuchel over Blanc for instance is ridiculous.

In my opinion. Are all the non-German fans throwing around names like Tuchel and Nagelsmann also homers?

 

[Evilo]

And Tuchel was fired for his results?

No, it's more your constant obsession with German fans rating any German player or manager as if it comes from a position of bias when you constantly insist you don't do the same for French players. Oh, and don't forget that you insisted L1 had surpassed the Bundesliga for a long time.

Best coach in 2001? I'm sorry, but that holds very little relevance to me here. Are you referring to Bielsa's Argentine titles 20+ years ago? Even less relevance.

Yes, I prefer Nagelsmann and Tuchel to Blanc as well. More sophisticated approach in possession and better pressing. Blanc's PSG didn't overly impress me in Europe and never reached where they should have for the talent on the team. His teams had some interesting facets but his tactics in the CL draws that they lost were really disappointing. At least in the past 5 years. This is after a rating of coaches now, and while you should have a sample size of several years, it is silly to point to a manager's primary achievements 9 years ago as reason why they are superior.

Bayern and Juventus weren't nearly as strong in 2009/10 as they have been recently. Disingenuous to suggest that they were.

Disingenuous to suggest they weren't strong teams.
Blanc's achievements with Bordeaux (since apparently PSG underachieved lol) don't count apparently. It's much more impressive to see Nagelsman's achievements.

OK

In my opinion. Are all the non-German fans throwing around names like Tuchel and Nagelsmann also homers?

So many of them

You've overhyped german coaches the second you started to write on this board. Nothing new.
You can look throughout my posting history, I never did the same with french coaches.
So please don't compare us, your BVB/german coaches bias knows no limits.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Disingenuous to suggest they weren't strong teams.
Blanc's achievements with Bordeaux (since apparently PSG underachieved lol) don't count apparently. It's much more impressive to see Nagelsman's achievements.

OK



So many of them

You've overhyped german coaches the second you started to write on this board. Nothing new.
You can look throughout my posting history, I never did the same with french coaches.
So please don't compare us, your BVB/german coaches bias knows no limits.

Bayern were left in awful shape after 2009 and it took van Gaal a while to improve the club. They definitely weren't close to where they are now to start the season.

Which BVB and German coaches have I overhyped? Please tell me. I have talked about many of them as good coaches but never have I ventured to compare any bar Klopp, Tuchel, and Nagelsmann to international coaches. Klopp and Tuchel are both world class coaches. The consensus is against you there, especially with Klopp.

And yes, many non-German fans suggested Tuchel and Nagelsmann in the last thread. Feel free to go back and look.

 

[Evilo]

Consensus against me for Klopp? That I rated as a top 10 coach? What are you smoking?
Is it because I laughed at the idea of someone voting him at 1st? Man you need to read what I wrote. Not that hard.

As for the posters who wanted Tuchel and co added.... LOL
Phisherman asked "IF we add Poch, why not these guys". Which is entirely different and totally agreed with me.
SJSharks voted Nagelsmann.
You voted Tuchel.

That's for your MANY. 2. Including you.

 

[Evilo]

And to discredit Blanc finishing over Juve and Bayern while hyping Nagelsman who's losing 6-2 on agregate to future CL winners Liverpool is quite hilarious.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Consensus against me for Klopp? That I rated as a top 10 coach? What are you smoking?
Is it because I laughed at the idea of someone voting him at 1st? Man you need to read what I wrote. Not that hard.

As for the posters who wanted Tuchel and co added.... LOL
Phisherman asked "IF we add Poch, why not these guys". Which is entirely different and totally agreed with me.
SJSharks voted Nagelsmann.
You voted Tuchel.

That's for your MANY. 2. Including you.

No, it's actually your very long history of negging Klopp and complaining about him being overrated.

And to discredit Blanc finishing over Juve and Bayern while hyping Nagelsman who's losing 6-2 on agregate to future CL winners Liverpool is quite hilarious.

Football last decade had more parity. The top teams weren't as dominant. There was clearly way more individual quality on that Bordeaux team from what I remember too than on Hoffenheim. Should we look at Mourinho's Porto CL win as the definitive underdog achievement and rank him accordingly? Also, it happened 9 years ago rather than last year.

And please answer, which German coaches have I overhyped?

 

[Evilo]

Overrated and yet I rate him in the top 10? Yes overrated by the idiots who rate him as #1.

Every german coach except Low (which is quite funny when you think about it).

Are you actually saying there wasn't a gulf between Bordeaux (lead by Chamakh on offense) and Juve and Bayern?
Blanc made them overachieve BIG TIME. In fact, they never were a threat without him since.
5 wins, 1 tie.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Overrated and yet I rate him in the top 10? Yes overrated by the idiots who rate him as #1.

Every german coach except Low (which is quite funny when you think about it).

Are you actually saying there wasn't a gulf between Bordeaux (lead by Chamakh on offense) and Juve and Bayern?
Blanc made them overachieve BIG TIME. In fact, they never were a threat without him since.
5 wins, 1 tie.

I have defended Löw more than any German fan here and more than just about anyone actually.

Please give me names of the coaches whom I overrated. I want to know.

There was a gulf as I recall, but I also recall clearly that Juve and Bayern were far more beatable then than now. And again, I think something that happened 8 years ago has little bearing now.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Add Blanc or Sampaoli next.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Add Spalletti.

 

[ecemleafs]

Brendan Rodgers

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Simeone. Add Sarri.