Roster Trimming

[haseoke39]

Its pretty disingenuous to include Gaborik who they traded for.

It depends on what your point is. I've always thought that the point is that this is where the top talent is. It's totally fair to point out that a fair number of top picks pan out into elite players and then still get traded. But you take that in the context of (a) most of them stay put, and (b) you have to give to get at that point, (c) you usually need the player to agree to come to you, etc.

I've always been agnostic about how we get elite players, but I think to myself, what would we have to trade to get them? What are the odds of that happening? In our position, who's going to sign with us, waive no-trade clauses to go to us, etc.? Since summer of 2012 when we struck out on Doan, Parise and Suter, I think the answer has been very few. So you've got to get your elite players somehow. I thought we actually made pretty strong efforts to get them via UFA and trade and just didn't have the ability.

At some point, you commit to this strategy, and once you're there, you might as well maximize your returns. Even if we start trying to build a winner now, we're not going to be cup contenders earlier than 2019. We need our top players to be Reinhart, Girgensons, Ristolainen, Zadorov, etc. Padding your win total this year isn't going to change who the core needs to be. So the only real questions are (a) would you rather be building around Eichel or Strome in 2019, and (b) does getting Eichel really hinder your ability to develop the guys already on the team.

 

[joshjull]

Where do we get someone as good as Doughty I wonder?

Various spots in the 1st and 2nd rounds. Dmen don't quite fit the "have to draft at the top of the draft" narrative as well as forwards do. Mostly due to taking a bit longer to develop.

Karlsson ---> 15th overall
Keith -------> 2nd round (54th overall)
Weber -----> 2nd rd (49th)
Subban ----> 2nd rd (43rd)
Kronwall ---> 29th
McDonaugh -> 12th
Suter--------> 7th
Chara ------> 3rd rd (56th)


Guys like Doughty, Pietrangelo are the exception not the rule for where top dmen are found.

 

[joshjull]

It depends on what your point is. I've always thought that the point is that this is where the top talent is. It's totally fair to point out that a fair number of top picks pan out into elite players and then still get traded. But you take that in the context of (a) most of them stay put, and (b) you have to give to get at that point, (c) you usually need the player to agree to come to you, etc.

I've always been agnostic about how we get elite players, but I think to myself, what would we have to trade to get them? What are the odds of that happening? In our position, who's going to sign with us, waive no-trade clauses to go to us, etc.? Since summer of 2012 when we struck out on Doan, Parise and Suter, I think the answer has been very few. So you've got to get your elite players somehow. I thought we actually made pretty strong efforts to get them via UFA and trade and just didn't have the ability.

At some point, you commit to this strategy, and once you're there, you might as well maximize your returns. Even if we start trying to build a winner now, we're not going to be cup contenders earlier than 2019. We need our top players to be Reinhart, Girgensons, Ristolainen, Zadorov, etc. Padding your win total this year isn't going to change who the core needs to be. So the only real questions are (a) would you rather be building around Eichel or Strome in 2019, and (b) does getting Eichel really hinder your ability to develop the guys already on the team.

I was making the simple observation that LA didn't draft Gaborik. Maybe disingenuous was the wrong word to use. But in light of the back and forth where one posters was arguing we don''t have to have the number one pick or pick at the top of the draft this coming offseason. Bringing up that LA has two top 5 picks on the roster is misleading since one of them they didn't draft (Gaborik). So its not really a counterpoint to the argument drinking bleach was attempting to make. If anything it supported his argument.

I wasn't laying out any grand team building strategy.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Its pretty disingenuous to include Gaborik who they traded for.

It should include Schenn, since that asset was turned into a key part of the 2 SC runs (moreso the first than the second, but still).

 

[joshjull]

It should include Schenn, since that asset was turned into a key part of the 2 SC runs (moreso the first than the second, but still).

True.


I think some posters though are getting off track arguing over whether or not drafting high needs to take place. Most teams that have a successful rebuild acquired a lot of talent through the draft. It was done by casting as wide a net as possible. Having top picks and picking in volume play a key role. It gives the team the ability to either find what they need in the draft or get the assets they can use to trade for what they need.

 

[enthusiast]

You can include Schenn if you like, but his value lay in trading away after prospect play. Similar to Jack Johnson with Carter, our Myers could return a similar value while not being drafted as high

 

[enthusiast]

That came out a bit sloppy


Doughty = Reinhart
Johnson Value = Myers Value
Schenn Value = Risto Value

etc etc

Girgs ~ Brown?
Grigorenko optimistic peak ~ Kopi?
Zads ~ Voynov

Makarov/Ullmark ~ Quick


etc etc