Roster Speculation: 2018 Offseason Pt. 6 -- Training Camp Begins 9/13

[sabrebuild]

There's negativity grounded in reality, then there's believing the only reality is negativity.

Or there’s just reality and people call it negative or positive based on their view point.

For example were professional writers negative for saying the Sabres are unlikely to make the playoffs or positive for saying they will get close, or is just their belief based on years of nhl hockey and how things typically work out?

 

[Dreakon13]

Or there’s just reality and people call it negative or positive based on their view point.

For example were professional writers negative for saying the Sabres are unlikely to make the playoffs or positive for saying they will get close, or is just their belief based on years of nhl hockey and how things typically work out?

Fan 1: YES! We got Dahlin!!
Fan 2: ... what does it matter when Housley is just going to misuse him and Botteril will waste his best years with crappy teams.

I mean, I guess your right. Hockey isn't a perfect science and people see things differently. Is Fan 2 right? Maybe... is that reality?

EDIT: You can probably find more statistics that prove Fan 2 is right, given our one lousy year with those two at the helm. We've been reading about it all offseason. Is it reality? Or is it needlessly extrapolating one bad season (their only season) to paint even the best news in a negative light?

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Moskau]

I hate that 2nd line. Put Shearey on the 1st line and have Skinner be the go to guy on the 2nd.

 

[Dreakon13]

I'd love it if that were the final roster, forward-wise at least.

It'd mean waiving Larsson, Baptiste and Bailey, and carrying two extra forwards. I'm not sure if the team does that. But I'd be fine if they did.

I hate that 2nd line. Put Shearey on the 1st line and have Skinner be the go to guy on the 2nd.

I think that'd probably be the go-to d zone line, where Sheary is likely a better fit than Skinner. Leaving that potent third line for easy offensive zone starts.

 

[sabrebuild]

Fan 1: YES! We got Dahlin!!
Fan 2: ... what does it matter when Housley is just going to misuse him and Botteril will waste his best years with crappy teams.

I mean, I guess your right. Hockey isn't a perfect science and people see things differently. Is Fan 2 right? Maybe... is that reality?

EDIT: You can probably find more statistics that prove Fan 2 is right, given our one lousy year with those two at the helm. We've been reading about it all offseason. Is it reality? Or is it needlessly extrapolating one bad season (their only season) to paint even the best news in a negative light?

I think the problem with your analogy is that everyone is Yes, Dahlin, awesome, because in reality that is awesome. And at the same time, in reality it’s completely reasonable to be uneasy about a coach with no history of developing teenagers into stars.

But extremes like that are not necessary to prove this point. In 06-07 I thought realistically the Sabres would be great in the regular season. I was certainly positive in general, due to previous team success and my general outlook. But the reality supported that positivety. They returned a team of vets who had just gone deep in the post season with only losing a couple guys, miss you JP, and young stars to fill those small holes.

In year two of bylsma I was hopeful they would be a playoff threat. The reality of the offseason looked solid enough. Kulikov in, improving youth and a lot of amerks with potential. Then they sucked, because things didn’t work out.

Looking at things realistically is not cool because your being negative to show your edgy or to protect yourself from if they suck.

It’s just a good way to analyze everything around you. And then be positive or negative based on the facts.

This ramble just reminded me. Have you been on this board long enough to meet Takeo? Now that is an example of being negative/realistic/haterade to write a case study on.

 

[Snippit]

Since when is ERod a responsible two way guy

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

There is also the fact that he attacks and is aggressive like they want our dmen to play.


Care to elaborate

Sure.

• The apparent lack of direction in Mittelstadt's offseason
• Pairing Casey with other suspect defensive players as he's transitioning to the NHL and to pro center
• Pairing Dahlin with McCabe, who is neither steady, nor provides a consistent outlet
• Not giving anyone meaningful run with Eichel or Skinner, especially away from the other
• Guhle having his second straight meh camp under Housley (I still think he'll be first callup and won't go back)
• The only two players who have popped for me are Thompson and Nylander, who coincidentally have the most external motivation

I was encouraged by most of what Phil was doing at the end of the season in terms of breaking in the kids, but his preseason work has been disappointingly rigid. It looks like it's setting up another stretch of arbitrary lineups and decisions.

 

[dotcommunism]

There's negativity grounded in reality, then there's believing the only reality is negativity.

Sure, but it's not unreasonable to not expect the team to be markedly better until they can provide some results, or at least tangible progress.

 

[joshjull]

Since when is ERod a responsible two way guy

He did say to grab your pitchforks

 

[darcyRegier]

So Beaulieu - Nelson is probably going to be the 3rd pair opening night? Yuck

 

[Team Cozens]

Don't forget the Hunwick cap albatross we stupidly took back in the Sheary deal. The cap management by this team is just minblowingly terrible (And yes I know we are still paying for Terrible Tim, but Botts took a bad situation and made it even worse).

There are also lots of people who are thrilled Botts got out from under the contracts of Ennis, Foligno and 5 more years of ROR.

 

[old kummelweck]

Looking at the preseason schedule, I am pretty disappointed the sabres kept so many non-roster players around for so long. I would have liked to see more than one game with a 'set' lineup - the one Housley is icing for the regular season.

 

[sabrefan27]

Looking at the preseason schedule, I am pretty disappointed the sabres kept so many non-roster players around for so long. I would have liked to see more than one game with a 'set' lineup - the one Housley is icing for the regular season.

Not only that, but the Amerks will have practically no time together before the regular season starts.

 

[OkimLom]

There are also lots of people who are thrilled Botts got out from under the contracts of Ennis, Foligno and 5 more years of ROR.

ROR's contract wasn't the problem, it was the perceived locker room issue. People that were thrilled he was gone weren't complaining about his contract, they were happy "such a quitter is gone", or "we don't need that attitude in this room". Contract had NOTHING to do with it. That's not even going to mention that contract's like ROR's usually have a NMC or NTC attached. ROR's did not, he could've moved it ANY time without constraints, and didn't need to take on contracts of 2 and 4 years with the same cap hit, but older players.

Foligno was a RFA without a contract.

The only contract he got rid of was Ennis' which he would've been a UFA at the end of THIS year, and in return he took on Pominville's contract which ends THIS year. So that was a wash.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

There are also lots of people who are thrilled Botts got out from under the contracts of Ennis, Foligno and 5 more years of ROR.

 

[Dreakon13]

and didn't need to take on contracts of 2 and 4 years with the same cap hit, but older players

While spinning it that they're contracts of less valuable players with the same cap hit makes it sound terribly unappealing... having Sobotka's cap come off in 2 years will help with RFA contracts 2-3 years from now. And then it's what? 3.85 mil of Berglund (who may very well be a functional middle 6 player for the duration) for one less year than ROR's full 7.5? With all the dead weight coming off in that timeframe too, that plays out a lot better cap-wise than the alternative.

I'll buy the angle that the team may be worse, at least short term, for losing ROR's talents. But the idea that contract-wise it's a wash is bunk.

 

[tsujimoto74]

ROR's contract wasn't the problem, it was the perceived locker room issue. People that were thrilled he was gone weren't complaining about his contract, they were happy "such a quitter is gone", or "we don't need that attitude in this room". Contract had NOTHING to do with it. That's not even going to mention that contract's like ROR's usually have a NMC or NTC attached. ROR's did not, he could've moved it ANY time without constraints, and didn't need to take on contracts of 2 and 4 years with the same cap hit, but older players.

Foligno was a RFA without a contract.

The only contract he got rid of was Ennis' which he would've been a UFA at the end of THIS year, and in return he took on Pominville's contract which ends THIS year. So that was a wash.

Got rid of Ennis and got us a legit top 4 defenseman in the process. Can't ignore the most important part of that trade.

And the bad contracts we've taken on under Botts have mostly been to acquire assets at a reduced cost (Hunwick to get Sheary, Pommer to get Scandella)--there exception being the ROR trade, where it really just looks like balancing the cap. Seeing how Thompson has played through the pre-season has taken a little bit of the sting out of that trade for me. I still think we'll miss ROR on the ice for at least this year, and maybe a couple, but Asplund and Mitts will eventually backfill the hole at center. A few years down the road, when we're paying for 2nd and 3rd contracts for Dahlin/Mitts/Reinhart, I do think we'll appreciate having the extra cap space created by moving ROR. Though, as you said, I don't think the trade was primarily motivated by his contract.

 

[sabrebuild]

There are also lots of people who are thrilled Botts got out from under the contracts of Ennis, Foligno and 5 more years of ROR.

What was wrong with Foligno’s contract? He was the positive value in that deal.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

I'd be pretty content with this line up, but like Moskau said - switch sheary and skinner.
Also, beware of Beaulieu. He may look shiny and new in preseason, but he will quickly turn into a black hole of suckage. Give his spot to Pilut.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

There are also lots of people who are thrilled Botts got out from under the contracts of Ennis, Foligno and 5 more years of ROR.

Those people have dumb opinions

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

What was wrong with Foligno’s contract? He was the positive value in that deal.

And they got rid of Ennis -- we still have Pomminville.

 

[Reddawg]

And they got rid of Ennis -- we still have Pomminville.

They'll be paying Ennis this season and next, we only have to pay Pommer this year.

 

[OkimLom]

Got rid of Ennis and got us a legit top 4 defenseman in the process. Can't ignore the most important part of that trade.

And the bad contracts we've taken on under Botts have mostly been to acquire assets at a reduced cost (Hunwick to get Sheary, Pommer to get Scandella)--there exception being the ROR trade, where it really just looks like balancing the cap. Seeing how Thompson has played through the pre-season has taken a little bit of the sting out of that trade for me. I still think we'll miss ROR on the ice for at least this year, and maybe a couple, but Asplund and Mitts will eventually backfill the hole at center. A few years down the road, when we're paying for 2nd and 3rd contracts for Dahlin/Mitts/Reinhart, I do think we'll appreciate having the extra cap space created by moving ROR. Though, as you said, I don't think the trade was primarily motivated by his contract.

The context was about getting free of "bad" contracts, and I was just saying that he didn't really get us out of a bad contract, as we had to take one on as well that ended at the same time. It's not about the trade overall.

I'm not going to get into the ROR trade, because I've said my opinions on it over and over again on this board, and don't feel like getting mad about it today, haha.

I am curious how much value Botts is saving by taking on those type of contracts, and eating up salary cap at a time where we're not close to competing, which is not a good thing to be at this point, IMO.

 

[old kummelweck]

Also, beware of Beaulieu. He may look shiny and new in preseason, but he will quickly turn into a black hole of suckage. Give his spot to Pilut.

I don't know what they see in Beaulieu. I don't think he was that great in preseason - he had one good game.