Roster Speculation 2014-2015, Part IX Poppa Bear Doin' Thangs.

[Beerz]

continued from here.


http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1828501&page=41

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[mikemcburn]

First in?

I'll call it - if Hodgson continues this trajectory, brings this last stretch of games to a line with quality mates, then I hope he's not traded after all and will begrudge-ely smack down anyone who proposes Nolan cannot positively influence youth.

 

[threeVo]

he looks so uninterested out there for most of the game, he had his moments yes but its just a dump and change groundhog day for him

 

[sabrebuild]

To Sabresbillsbuffalo, were you sick at the trade for Kane? Because I think the package I just offered is a little less than that, and I think Myers for Bogo was more like Bogo for part of Myers and the rest of Myers value made up for the lacking quantity package for Kane.

The first rounder is going to be in the 20s most likely. McCabe is at best a mid pairing defensemen. Ennis is what makes Col say yes.

I think it's humorous that people jumped over the Ennis package but had nothing to say about the Pysyk package, who is a better and closer to ready defender than McCabe and Grigorenko has the potential to be better than Ennis by quite a bit.

 

[Moskau]

Where are we supposed to talk about the trade deadline? There are 3 potential threads so I just went with this one. Buffalo is really getting lucky with some of the teams that are currently struggling going into the deadline. I never thought Stewart would be a potential 1st round pick worthy player but at this rate you never know. I don't think he brings in one but it wouldn't surprise me at this rate with the struggles of Boston. It's too bad Pittsburgh doesn't have a 1st.

 

[ZeroPT*]

I hope Boston goes full derp and trades us Subban for Stewart and make the playoffs. That should keep Chiarelli as GM for a little while longer

 

[Bps21*]

First in?

I'll call it - if Hodgson continues this trajectory, brings this last stretch of games to a line with quality mates, then I hope he's not traded after all and will begrudge-ely smack down anyone who proposes Nolan cannot positively influence youth.

You never make sense. Somehow this paragraph makes even less than usual.

 

[Paxon]

To Sabresbillsbuffalo, were you sick at the trade for Kane? Because I think the package I just offered is a little less than that, and I think Myers for Bogo was more like Bogo for part of Myers and the rest of Myers value made up for the lacking quantity package for Kane.

The first rounder is going to be in the 20s most likely. McCabe is at best a mid pairing defensemen. Ennis is what makes Col say yes.

I think it's humorous that people jumped over the Ennis package but had nothing to say about the Pysyk package, who is a better and closer to ready defender than McCabe and Grigorenko has the potential to be better than Ennis by quite a bit.

I'd say you're giving up more in that package. More importantly, ROR has less value than Kane. He has a year on his contract.

 

[Bps21*]

I'd say you're giving up more in that package. More importantly, ROR has less value than Kane. He has a year on his contract.

100% correct. Even if you think OReilly is a better player than Kane...they don't exist in a vacuum. One has 3 more years on his contract. The other is a UFA after 1. That matters.

 

[mikemcburn]

You never make sense. Somehow this paragraph makes even less than usual.

And you never change. Seriously, the lame personal digs you feel the need to insert when posting of me or in response to me, are, well... lame.

Give it a rest big guy. Meaning if you don't like what I say or how I compose the words, be the man who can skip over my posts without feeling the need to trash just for the sake of it.

 

[Bps21*]

How about instead you try to untangle that paragraph to nowhere you wrote up top champ.

 

[mikemcburn]

How about instead you try to untangle that paragraph to nowhere you wrote up top champ.

How 'bout instead you give it a rest, be the bigger man (or whatever), and let go of the need dish out put downs?

Seriously, next time you find one of my posts is "tangled", just say as much and I'll attempt to clarify. No need for your trashing.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Why is it that this board and a vast amount of posters here are so into bashing one another and pointlessly argue? No solidarity. No mutual respect. Usually you are supposed to hate fans of our rivals , not other Sabre fans

As for the Sabres, Murray's main goal is to acquire a franchise RW1. A RW who can score 30 goals+ consistently. If we get McEichel then we are completely set at center. McEichel-Reinhart-Girgensons is possibly the best 1-2-3 punch at center by 2020 and would rival when Pittsburgh had Crosby-Malkin-Staal (Crosby and Malkin are better overall then McEichel-Reinhart but Girgensons is/will be much better then J. Staal) not to mention we have Grigorenko, Ennis and Hodgson also as top 9 centers.

A franchise goalie is also a big need as I don't think any of our current goaltending prospects will ever amount to anything. Would not mind seeing a goalie drafted with the Isles first or #31.

We could also use a top flight offensive dman. A guy who can anchor the PP and chip in 40-50 points. Besides a RW1, franchise goalie and Offensive dman the only other need we have is bottom 6 face off specialists/defensive stalwarts. This team long term is coming along.

 

[sabrebuild]

I'd say you're giving up more in that package. More importantly, ROR has less value than Kane. He has a year on his contract.

Armia is a better prospect than McCabe and closer to the show. The first in my deal would be worth more than the first we gave to the Peg, but not hugely so, tho that is a bit of an unknown. And then your left with Ennis vs Stafford and Lemieux. Idk, looks like a marginally better package if you really like Ennis, but I'd say pretty close.

I'd agree that Kane's contract situation is better, but I'm of the opinion that ROR is the more valuable player in general.

I think that deal looks a lot like the Staal deal Carolina made. Not nearly as high of pick as the Pens gave up, 8th overall. A closer to the NHL prospect than the Pens gave up. Ennis on a good deal compared to Brandon Sutter who at the time was on a similar value deal but I believe was an rfa when his shorter term deal would end. I can't remember the exact term he had left. Either way I think Sutter has similar value as a player. Better defensively, a legit center who at the time had pretty solid offensive numbers for the defensive role he was playing, while Ennis is a winger with better offensive numbers but lesser defensive skills. And despite some overall team issues on the Canes, they won that deal hands down.

It all comes down to you have to resign ROR in any deal for him or you got fleeced. But if you resign him you just set your top 5 forwards, who all play a good two way game, some of them at an elite level, without losing your difficult to replace young defensemen.

I'd rather do that deal than send Grigorenko and Pysyk and a first as has been discussed.

The bigger question is will they take that.

 

[mikemcburn]

Why is it that this board and a vast amount of posters here are so into bashing one another and pointlessly argue? No solidarity. No mutual respect. Usually you are supposed to hate fans of our rivals , not other Sabre fans

To be fair to Bps, he doesn't strike me as someone who generally bashes other fans, so it's probably just "me" (or only a few at least) who has struck the wrong cord. And yeah, I can write quirky enough to draw that ire (and to be exceptionally overpaid, so I'll take the downside).

As for the Sabres, Murray's main goal is to acquire a franchise RW1. A RW who can score 30 goals+ consistently. If we get McEichel then we are completely set at center. McEichel-Reinhart-Girgensons is possibly the best 1-2-3 punch at center by 2020 and would rival when Pittsburgh had Crosby-Malkin-Staal (Crosby and Malkin are better overall then McEichel-Reinhart but Girgensons is/will be much better then J. Staal) not to mention we have Grigorenko, Ennis and Hodgson also as top 9 centers.

A franchise goalie is also a big need as I don't think any of our current goaltending prospects will ever amount to anything. Would not mind seeing a goalie drafted with the Isles first or #31.

We could also use a top flight offensive dman. A guy who can anchor the PP and chip in 40-50 points. Besides a RW1, franchise goalie and Offensive dman the only other need we have is bottom 6 face off specialists/defensive stalwarts. This team long term is coming along.

I really keep seeing Girgensens as a top six power-winger going forward, giving the Sabres a wicked 1a/1b set-up and leaving the door open to a Larsson type to anchor the more traditional 3rd line. P

Personally, if Hodgson isn't slotted into a playmaking center role then he'd be better off on wing in the top 6 rather than anchoring a primarily defensive 3rd line. Same with Ennis, who really I don't see as a center whatsoever. But that's just me. Both could get stronger in the dot, that's a solo skill thing that can be developed, practiced, etc., but I'd bet on neither H or E becoming a "specialist". So, again, H&E to wing, and... how is Larsson for 3C? Need someone/thing else?

 

[sabrebuild]

Why is it that this board and a vast amount of posters here are so into bashing one another and pointlessly argue? No solidarity. No mutual respect. Usually you are supposed to hate fans of our rivals , not other Sabre fans

As for the Sabres, Murray's main goal is to acquire a franchise RW1. A RW who can score 30 goals+ consistently. If we get McEichel then we are completely set at center. McEichel-Reinhart-Girgensons is possibly the best 1-2-3 punch at center by 2020 and would rival when Pittsburgh had Crosby-Malkin-Staal (Crosby and Malkin are better overall then McEichel-Reinhart but Girgensons is/will be much better then J. Staal) not to mention we have Grigorenko, Ennis and Hodgson also as top 9 centers.

A franchise goalie is also a big need as I don't think any of our current goaltending prospects will ever amount to anything. Would not mind seeing a goalie drafted with the Isles first or #31.

We could also use a top flight offensive dman. A guy who can anchor the PP and chip in 40-50 points. Besides a RW1, franchise goalie and Offensive dman the only other need we have is bottom 6 face off specialists/defensive stalwarts. This team long term is coming along.

You don't want much.ha To be fair I think they hope they got the defensemen your asking for in one of Risto/Zadorov/Bogo. And ROR should be the winger, if they can pull that off. The goalie, ehh, crapshoot. Maybe Ullmark, maybe Makarov, maybe Peterson, maybe its Neuvy if he stays healthy.

 

[Beerz]

I think Zadorov is going to be a step down from Chara ... he'll put up points pretty close to Chara and in a similar manner. He won't be a typical offensive dman by lugging the puck up the ice ... but i think he'll excel on the PP while not being the PPQB persay. Slappers/crashing the net/sneaking back door. Won't have the defensive prowess of Chara or the natural meaness of Chara .. but he's goona put up points while destroying people.

 

[sabrebuild]

I think Zadorov is going to be a step down from Chara ... he'll put up points pretty close to Chara and in a similar manner. He won't be a typical offensive dman by lugging the puck up the ice ... but i think he'll excel on the PP while not being the PPQB persay. Slappers/crashing the net/sneaking back door. Won't have the defensive prowess of Chara or the natural meaness of Chara .. but he's goona put up points while destroying people.

Maybe not the size to be as effectively mean as Chara, but considering how old the kid is and how he still is probably 5 years away from his physical peak, he's pretty ornery already. I can see him swelling up to 235 lbs of muscle and hate pretty easily. This team is setting up to be a nightmare for the rest of the East. Forwards are big, mean and defensively responsible. Defensive is big, mean and defensively responsible. We are becoming the 70s Flyers with less pretty hair, more teeth and regrettably less line brawls.

 

[Moskau]

Casually finding a D man who chips in 50 points a year shouldn't be too hard.

 

[sabrebuild]

I'd say you're giving up more in that package. More importantly, ROR has less value than Kane. He has a year on his contract.

The Avs fans hate my offer and think its way too little value.

I feel bad for them. Almost across the board as a group have convinced themselves that ROR's trade value is not impacted by his contract and he is going to return an equivalent defender. Or Zadorov a 1st and another prospect. Poor ******** are going to be so upset when they don't get the moon for him.

 

[Reddawg]

Personally, if Hodgson isn't slotted into a playmaking center role then he'd be better off on wing in the top 6 rather than anchoring a primarily defensive 3rd line.

I don't see this working out, since the major knock on Hodgson has traditionally been how poor he is defensively. Of course, that's now being overshadowed by that fact that he's poor *offensively* as well.

 

[Aapo]

I think Zadorov is going to be a step down from Chara ... he'll put up points pretty close to Chara and in a similar manner. He won't be a typical offensive dman by lugging the puck up the ice ... but i think he'll excel on the PP while not being the PPQB persay. Slappers/crashing the net/sneaking back door. Won't have the defensive prowess of Chara or the natural meaness of Chara .. but he's goona put up points while destroying people.

Freudian slip or intentional?

 

[mikemcburn]

I don't see this working out, since the major knock on Hodgson has traditionally been how poor he is defensively. Of course, that's now being overshadowed by that fact that he's poor *offensively* as well.

That's the thing of it "traditionally". It's become a tagline the kid can't shake an inch, despite that he's actually been far more defensively sound this last stretch.

Here's the thing - Hodgson was scouted not merely for his offense (playmaking/shot/vision/IQ), but also for his two-way play. Obviously a junior scouting report isn't a guarantee of a kid's NHL future, but it does mean there's potential to develop. In Hodgson's case, whatever potential he had (has?) to develop a two-way NHL game was skewed by how his rookie and sophomore years went down.

He sustained an injury as a pre-rookie that was originally misdiagnosed by the team's med staff and got called out in the media by the coach for making it up. Eventually though, they got another opinion which proved the coach had foot in mouth syndrome, and with the team's permission Hodgson worked his butt off (paraphrasing Gary Roberts here, from his smack down of Canucks' management after the trade fiasco) to come back from the injury.

And that's how he started his 1st year; playing your standard limited minutes in a "sheltered" rookie 3C role behind Sedin and Kesler. But Kesler was floundering with an undisclosed injury himself and the team as a whole was desperate for offense, so media started up with the constant hammering of why Hodgson wasn't getting more ice time, speculating a "rift" between player and coach over the misdiagnosed injury (media's rhetoric here would end up leading to teammate jokes and eventually fans deciding Hodgson himself demanded icetime or a trade, blah, blah, blah).

All the while, Hodgson himself was plugging along, head down, mouth shut, just another rookie starting to apply his trade at the NHL level. January he's rookie of the mouth, February he's traded for the unproven Kassian. Asked about the surprising and unpopular trade, Canucks GM explained it's a good deal all around - he wanted the Canucks to get bigger (Kassian) and the Sabres needed a top six center (Hodgson).

But the trade became increasingly unpopular as Kassian was benched, scratched, etc. and ultimately the Canucks flopped out of the playoffs due a wholesale lack of offense. To deflect the continued media scrutiny of the trade when people felt the team really could have used a 3C Hodgson over a scratched Kassian, the Canucks GM spoke two sentences which inferred Hodgson was an "issue". For his own part, Hodgson, who just continued to keep his head down and mouth shut, he was drop shipped into the 1C role on the Sabres.

You'll know the rest of the story. Net result is that he went from being a raw rookie who needed work to translate his two-way scouting report into anything that would be serviceable at the NHL level, straight into a pure offense role heaped with the expectation to produce points.

And he did alright, even pretty good considering the team's composition and constant changes (coaches, roster, expectations, his own role, etc.). But this year? Take away his skilled linemates and his ice-time, and you've got what we see now - a young man who is dealing with more public humiliations by keeping his head down, mouth shut, working thru the mess, and turning in far more physical and defensively sound games than earlier on his career.

So, despite your jab at his offense and his "traditionally" dismal defensive game, he has proven he can produce at the NHL level and he *had* the two-way potential at one point - can it be developed?

There's nothing to say that he cannot essentially "go back" and develop/improve his two-way game, and I'm increasingly of the opinion that's precisely what shown capable of doing. Fact is, he's not nearly as much the liability has he used to be, even just measuring from the start of this season.

Ergo my theory that if he can continue this defensive improvement and continue the work ethic he puts into his off-season training re: skating, strength, etc., then you can slot him back with skilled linemates and have a guy with proven offense who can also play at least an average defensive game.

It's possible Hodgson may owe Nolan a Christmas basket and thank you card one day.

 

[Reddawg]

Fun fact - He has the same number of goals this year that John Scott does. Half as many overall points as Mark Arcobello who is now with his 4th NHL team this season. It's hardly "my" jab at his offense.

That said, I just re-read your original post and my mild dyslexia completely misled me. I thought you said he'd be better suited as a 3rd line defensive center rather than a top six winger, but you said the exact opposite. Sorry to make you type all of that when we completely agree. CoHo's best role on the team moving forward is as the 2nd line RW. That's where he fits...nowhere else.

 

[ZeroPT*]

The Avs fans hate my offer and think its way too little value.

I feel bad for them. Almost across the board as a group have convinced themselves that ROR's trade value is not impacted by his contract and he is going to return an equivalent defender. Or Zadorov a 1st and another prospect. Poor ******** are going to be so upset when they don't get the moon for him.

seriously. He's going to go for what Staal and Keser got. They think they'll get Zadorov/Risto