Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[DerekKingSnipes]

NYI to ANA: JG Pageau
ANA to NYI: 2024 ANA 3rd & 2024 PIT 3rd

Thoughts?

(endorsed by one ANA poster on the main board lol)

I mean yeah the cap space opening is nice but that’s only positive in this move. I really believe they are going to move Nelson, That’s my sort of surprise player here that’s not going to be here when camp rolls around.

 

[MJF]

He seemed better in the handful of playoff games, but “effective” is not the word I’d use to describe the large majority of his play this season.

Having a good playoff is no substitute for having a good regular season.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that for 3 season this team has struggled to make the playoffs. We need players who can get us there and then keep carrying us through the postseason.

 

[periferal]

NYI to ANA: JG Pageau
ANA to NYI: 2024 ANA 3rd & 2024 PIT 3rd

Thoughts?

(endorsed by one ANA poster on the main board lol)

You gotta trade Nelson first (for multiple top assets) and once you do that not only opens up cap, but leaves a massive hole at #2 center. So if you trade Nelson not sure you can also trade Pageau unless you have another very good center joining the team somehow.

 

[PK Cronin]

I mean yeah the cap space opening is nice but that’s only positive in this move. I really believe they are going to move Nelson, That’s my sort of surprise player here that’s not going to be here when camp rolls around.

Both he and Palmieri should be moved in the summer. I don't think their values will increase at all during the regular season and it's not worth the risk for the minimal increase they might get. If retaining 50% of each increases the return to a substantial degree the team should consider doing that. They'd shed $5.5M in cap space, gain some assets, and then would have another $5.5M coming off the books at the end of next season where they could look to move Pageau and Lee if they aren't moved before then.

 

[MJF]

I mean yeah the cap space opening is nice but that’s only positive in this move. I really believe they are going to move Nelson, That’s my sort of surprise player here that’s not going to be here when camp rolls around.

Moving Nelson then keeping Pageau, Cizikas, MacLean still leaves a roster logjam. Moving Nelson AND one of Pageau or Cizikas needs to go along with it. JGP probably would be my choice for the cap space.

 

[PK Cronin]

You gotta trade Nelson first (for multiple top assets) and once you do that not only opens up cap, but leaves a massive hole at #2 center. So if you trade Nelson not sure you can also trade Pageau unless you have another very good center joining the team somehow.

Horvat, Barzal, Cizikas, MacLean down the middle if that happens. Take a step back to re-tool a bit quicker.

 

[BMOK33]

You gotta trade Nelson first (for multiple top assets) and once you do that not only opens up cap, but leaves a massive hole at #2 center. So if you trade Nelson not sure you can also trade Pageau unless you have another very good center joining the team somehow.

Obviously plenty are available in 2025 but the question is again can you get guys to sign here. The good news is VGK/NYR are gonna be dead against the cap in 2025 due to various factors so you do take 2 of the major players out of the market but DAL/TB are gonna have like 30 million in space which is a major problem and Yzerman may be ready to go off too

 

[periferal]

Horvat, Barzal, Cizikas, MacLean down the middle if that happens. Take a step back to re-tool a bit quicker.

A fair solution, but then your hole(s) at wing become even more massive.

 

[Skip To My Lou]

I'm not Mr. Analytics, but I also think they play an important role. This was a terrible look. Astounding that this team made the playoffs.

 

[The Real JT]

NYI to ANA: JG Pageau
ANA to NYI: 2024 ANA 3rd & 2024 PIT 3rd

Thoughts?

(endorsed by one ANA poster on the main board lol)

I just don’t see JGP as having positive trade value. I suppose he might fetch one of those 2 assets but I think that’s the ceiling. Other than being good at the dot, his play has gradually diminished over the last 2 years and he ain’t getting any younger. He’s also far from a bargain at $5M x 2 more years. Dare I say, playing for the Isles in what’s looked at as a “system” doesn’t enhance his trade value.

Moving Nelson then keeping Pageau, Cizikas, MacLean is a poor use of the assets. Moving Nelson AND one of Pageau or Cizikas needs to go along with it.

I’m with you on that though clearly we’ll need to pick up another center in the off-season if we’re counting on MacLean to be a regular and losing two of the veteran centers.

 

[PK Cronin]

A fair solution, but then your hole(s) at wing become even more massive.

It's probably easier to acquire wings than centers but given the fact that we know Horvat and Barzal can play together it frees the team up to grab whichever becomes available.

Pageau can be held for another year and could be given the #2C role to see if he has a rebound offensively just by getting more minutes. If they can boost his value at all it'd be a win.

I'm still thinking Pelech or Pulock will be moved to a team like Ottawa who is looking to shake their roster up and bring in some stable veterans. Whether or not either of those players waives to go there I don't know but NTCs have been successfully navigated before and plenty of players are okay moving on once a team doesn't want them. If they think they can go to Ottawa and be on a contending team maybe they take it (or another team in a similar situation).

 

[Green]

I'm not Mr. Analytics, but I also think they play an important role. This was a terrible look. Astounding that this team made the playoffs.

And this team is only going to get worse, it is insane to me people want to rehash this and hope they can sneak into a playoff spot next year (which they won't) only to get killed in the first round again, a complete rebuild is the only thing this franchise needs

 

[mm11]

that pinto Long Island kid can play #3 or #2 center. How about Ryder, Halak and a 3rd?

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

The rationale behind trading JGP as opposed to Nelson is the replacement.

Replacing JGP with Cizikas vs. replacing Nelson with JGP, Barzal or external 2C?

At least Nelson is potting 35 goals at his $6mm AAV compared to Pageau's faceoffs and PK at $5mm AAV.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

Horvat, Barzal, Cizikas, MacLean down the middle if that happens. Take a step back to re-tool a bit quicker.

Yeah I could Nelson traded but Barzal staying on wing and looking for a new 2nd center, obviously a guy like Pinto I’m sure isles would be willing to give up thst first pick in 2024 as start of a deal for a guy like that.

 

[MJF]

I just don’t see JGP as having positive trade value. I suppose he might fetch one of those 2 assets but I think that’s the ceiling. Other than being good at the dot, his play has gradually diminished over the last 2 years and he ain’t getting any younger. He’s also far from a bargain at $5M x 2 more years. Dare I say, playing for the Isles in what’s looked at as a “system” doesn’t enhance his trade value.


I’m with you on that though clearly we’ll need to pick up another center in the off-season if we’re counting on MacLean to be a regular and losing two of the veteran centers.

Ageeed. Or a high talent sniper that allows us to drop Barzal down to L2. Mat Barzal is not consistent enough for 1st line duties.

 

[Osakahaus]

I know that we suck and our GM is old and terrible and our owners are obviously dumb and there's no way we can be competitive ever again... But just want to say that it was a fun season. Crazy ups and downs but a nice push at the end to make the playoffs. And always fun to be in the tournament.

Sorokin, Barzal, Horvat, Engvall, Romanov, Dobson. That's a helluva (still young) core. Most brought in by Lou I might add. Hoping whatever moves the team makes, the strategy is to improve next season. Not seven seasons from now.

yeah

but what about no Horvat and we become Buffalo?

 

[MJF]

View attachment 863064
yeah

but what about no Horvat and we become Buffalo?

So we got Horvat and stayed on the mediocrity merry-go-round.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

View attachment 863064
yeah

but what about no Horvat and we become Buffalo?

In hopes that after years of sucking we draft a player that develops into a... Bo Horvat...

Brilliant!

 

[Osakahaus]

In hopes that after years of sucking we draft a player that develops into a... Bo Horvat...

Brilliant!

Every time people bring up picks, this clip pops into my mind for the return

 

[PK Cronin]

View attachment 863064
yeah

but what about no Horvat and we become Buffalo?

I was reading some of those comments last night and it seems like he's changing the reason why he gave them that grade, a little revisionist history.

So we got Horvat and stayed on the mediocrity merry-go-round.

Horvat should still be contributing in a few years and is a useful player so I don't have any issues with him being here. If the team didn't get him and missed the playoffs entirely I think it would've been much worse because it's possible Lamoriello tries to bring a player like him in now which just delays things a bit more.

We've seen this group with multiple coaches and they were relatively healthy this year, but they still can't get it done and the same issues plague them. I'd be surprised if real changes aren't made to shake this roster up a bit.

 

[Osakahaus]

We've seen this group with multiple coaches and they were relatively healthy this year, but they still can't get it done and the same issues plague them. I'd be surprised if real changes are made to shake this roster up a bit.

The biggest problem that i noticed fall into three bullet points

-TERRIBLE PENALTY KILL
-Poor depth scoring
-Limited puck movement from defensemen

Our offseason shopping list should do everything to fix the bottom 6 and D. I do not expect us to go after Guentzel or Stamkos or Reinhart, but those players would easily help us. Resign Holmstrom and MacLean and Reilly, and see if Bortuzzo can stay as a 7th D. Bolduc also needs to take the next step. He could be very critical to this team being better offensively if possible.

 

[The Real JT]

View attachment 863064
yeah

but what about no Horvat and we become Buffalo?

Ridiculous take by that guy. Trading futures for a middling talent at the TDL never makes sense if your team isn’t on the cusp of being a realistic cup contender. Trading for Horvat was somewhat of a gamble, but it’s proven to be a wise move.

I guess the guy believes we should have gone full tank mode. Even fans that are less than optimistic regarding their team’s potential (count me in there) rarely want a full tear down. That would be unbearable.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Every time people bring up picks, this clip pops into my mind for the return

Exactly.

 

[PK Cronin]

The biggest problem that i noticed fall into three bullet points

-TERRIBLE PENALTY KILL
-Poor depth scoring
-Limited puck movement from defensemen

Our offseason shopping list should do everything to fix the bottom 6 and D. I do not expect us to go after Guentzel or Stamkos or Reinhart, but those players would easily help us. Resign Holmstrom and MacLean and Reilly, and see if Bortuzzo can stay as a 7th D. Bolduc also needs to take the next step. He could be very critical to this team being better offensively if possible.

That should've said "aren't made" and I fixed it.

The PK was abysmal, no doubt, and it cost the team points in the standings and some games in the playoffs. What's been a constant over the years is that this team can't have a good power play and a great PK at the same time. It's one or the other, and sometimes neither.

Depth has gotten worse as Martin and Cizikas has aged. They need to be replaced with younger and hungrier players, similar to the players they were years ago.

Reilly was great once he was brought in but the defense struggles with the same thing the offense does, too many players that fit the same role/mold. Pelech, Pulock, and Romanov are all defense first guys who don't bring a lot of offense. If Reilly can be brought back cheap he'd be worth it, but one of Pelech/Pulock need to go and/or Aho needs to be replaced with a functional bottom pairing defenseman. Aho can't be on this team anymore, he cannot play in the playoffs and is a giant liability when the physical play elevates.