Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[leeroggy]

I posted this on the main trade board isles rebuild thread, but what about a good old fashioned hockey trade:

To NYI

Nik Ehlers

To WPG

Native Son Ryan Pulock

Ehlers' historical playoff stats scare me but a Barzal-Horvat-Ehlers line excites my loins.

I was proposing that 3 years ago AND I also grew up in Merrick (likely a lot older than you) . . . I guess there was something in the Violetta's pizza sauce

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

• Try to trade Wahlstrom for anything (hopefully a sweetener in a bigger deal).
• Have your scouting department work harder than ever to hit on whatever picks you have come the draft.
• If a miracle happens and you can trade Lee do so, but regardless...Make Horvat captain.

Enjoyed the entire post, especially because we now obviously all have that form of spring feeling where you pull out the grill and kick off the BBQ season.

But to these 3 points:
- Wahlstrom, as an RFA, can be a possible deal sweetener. For sure. Might be necessary. At the least, he should be moved for another similarly aged RFA somewhere else who is also in (vital) need of a change of scenery. W Berggren of Detroit, W Pelletier of Calgary, and D Soderstrom of Utah are three such samples who are in similar boats and I think every single one of them would be a player worth seeing in an Islander uniform.
- I know that with "work harder then ever", you essentially mean they should be more effective and successful than ever with their picks. They have to come together in their assessments and be so shrewd that they end up basically getting 5 hits of some sort (as that's currently all the picks they have). Interestingly enough, a team could spend all ~7 picks every summer on players who played at the U18 Worlds and would probably wind up with 3 future NHLers out of every draft. It would really be that simple. 1 tournament. Scrutinize the f$%6 out of it. Get your 3 future NHLers. Yes, yes - watch these boys all winter long, but draft solely from these participants and you'd have a constant influx of NHL-ready talent every fall in 3-4 year cycles. Nobody does it because hey, there's plenty of other talent out there every draft year too. I'd be happy to a show a GM out there that what I just wrote could become his reality.
- I've mentioned it in many posts this spring, some better than others, but there are currently 5-7 players across the league who could theoretically upgrade this team - maybe considerably - who are financial burdens for their respective team cost structures and although good, don't move the needle enough for them. The question in my mind is, if all parties involved would be willing in light of NTCs and M-NTCs, can Lee and one of Engvall or Mayfield be packaged to bring in one of those players? It would have to make more sense for the other team from a long-term financial standpoint (particularly with respect to contract lengths), but we'd move out an extra contract and "similar" immediate money to bring in a better player moving forward. I'm hoping whoever is GM, he'll manage to make this kind of thing happen. Personally, I think both Lee and Mayfield would fit very well with what Chicago is building and there's reason to believe they'd be open to go there.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

For how long? While a lot of our core can be considered young, they are not 19 years old. Gotta maximize Horvat, Barzal etc when they are in their prime.

I'm all for trading some vets for assets/cap room but all moves have to be made with an eye on still remaining competitive. Next season. So that may mean flipping some of those assets for (or acquiring) players that can contribute immediately.

One of Nelson or Pageau needs to go just for cap considerations and the attempt to get a LW for Horvat and Barzal. I guess they probably get a first round pick for Nelson so they could flip that for a guy like Pinto just as example who will be cheaper than Nelson and you use the remaining cap to attempt to find a winger.

 

[periferal]

Enjoyed the entire post, especially because we now obviously all have that form of spring feeling where you pull out the grill and kick off the BBQ season.

But to these 3 points:
- Wahlstrom, as an RFA, can be a possible deal sweetener. For sure. Might be necessary. At the least, he should be moved for another similarly aged RFA somewhere else who is also in (vital) need of a change of scenery. W Berggren of Detroit, W Pelletier of Calgary, and D Soderstrom of Utah are three such samples who are in similar boats and I think every single one of them would be a player worth seeing in an Islander uniform.

I am 100% for this idea. The problem I see is that every NHL team not only scouted every single NHL player when they were <18 minor league prospects, but they have scouts at tons of games throughout the season scouting them now.

So to me while some of those guys you mentioned (and several others throughout the league) that need a "change of scenery" the reason they need it is different that Wahlstrom. Other young players who are strugging might be because of a number of factors:

• They aren't confident yet.
• They haven't matured enough
• The coach is using them improperly
• The organization isn't developing them properly

...Etc. The problem that I see is that the reason Wahlstrom isn't playing on a regular basis and closer to reaching the 40 goal potential for a guy who's 6'2/200lbs with a truly elite shot is because...He's dumb as rocks. And sadly that cannot be fixed no matter what role or coach he has.

And because of my original point about constant NHL scouting...I think all other teams know it. Thus is has "throw in/sweetener" value at best.

- I know that with "work harder then ever", you essentially mean they should be more effective and successful than ever with their picks. They have to come together in their assessments and be so shrewd that they end up basically getting 5 hits of some sort (as that's currently all the picks they have). Interestingly enough, a team could spend all ~7 picks every summer on players who played at the U18 Worlds and would probably wind up with 3 future NHLers out of every draft. It would really be that simple. 1 tournament. Scrutinize the f$%6 out of it. Get your 3 future NHLers. Yes, yes - watch these boys all winter long, but draft solely from these participants and you'd have a constant influx of NHL-ready talent every fall in 3-4 year cycles. Nobody does it because hey, there's plenty of other talent out there every draft year too. I'd be happy to a show a GM out there that what I just wrote could become his reality.

I am so down for what you wrote, but of course every stone should be unturned throughout the world.

I was also being nice in writing that the Isles scouting department should "work harder than ever" when what I really want is some changes to it. I know Lou hasn't exactly given them a lot to work with, but they also haven't capitalized on what they did have. Some very questionable picks based on process and I'm not sure the guys in the room can do better. And if that's the case then they need to be replaced.

...Which is why I'm dying for the Islanders to get a new team president. It's time for new (younger) perspective and fresh ideas around here.

- I've mentioned it in many posts this spring, some better than others, but there are currently 5-7 players across the league who could theoretically upgrade this team - maybe considerably - who are financial burdens for their respective team cost structures and although good, don't move the needle enough for them. The question in my mind is, if all parties involved would be willing in light of NTCs and M-NTCs, can Lee and one of Engvall or Mayfield be packaged to bring in one of those players? It would have to make more sense for the other team from a long-term financial standpoint (particularly with respect to contract lengths), but we'd move out an extra contract and "similar" immediate money to bring in a better player moving forward. I'm hoping whoever is GM, he'll manage to make this kind of thing happen. Personally, I think both Lee and Mayfield would fit very well with what Chicago is building and there's reason to believe they'd be open to go there.

This is a problem I often see on HFBoards...People are very "Islanders-centric" to a fault and don't consider what another team/the rest of the NHL might be thinking about the Isles and they're players (especially when it comes to trades).

I mean Pierre Engvall has another SIX (6) years left on his contract. I would be beyond floored if any other team took on that contract in a deal that actually benefitted the Islanders. Anders Lee would actually be easier to sell because he only has two (2) years left despite being at 7M/year because he can still score, is a captain, and you could retain 50% of his salary. Engvall is Jello on skates and no team needs a guy who is totally useless/a liability except for the roughly 10 goals a year he scores.

I don't see how the Isles dump his contract unless they give up a bunch extra in terms of picks and then that just winds up hurting the Isles in the long run.

 

[Osakahaus]

The way I see it the first move of the offseason should be one of the following:

- The "Retool"
Trade the most valuable of Nelson/Palmieri

- The Cap Savings
Trade Pageau/Lee and use the cap space on the roster

Pageau should be dealt, lets be as honest as we can be. MacLean has actually made him potentially irrelevent even if MacLean scored like 4 points all season long.

 

[Osakahaus]

Players that the islanders should go for are guys like DeBrusk, Duclair, Bjustad, Skjei, Roslovic, Stephenson or Kunin. They need depth tier guys. I would love Chandler Stephenson but no way vegas loses him. They gotta try to get those players who also bolster the blue line. come on isles, we gotta do something this offseason!

 

[Metnut]

I really like Roy as a coach but if the Canes cheap out on Ron Brind'Amour and he hits the market, Isles should be 100% all over that and sign him to a 10-year highly paid deal. Give him control of the front office and let him pick his GM too.

 

[Osakahaus]

I really like Roy as a coach but if the Canes cheap out on Ron Brind'Amour and he hits the market, Isles should be 100% all over that and sign him to a 10-year highly paid deal. Give him control of the front office and let him pick his GM too.

Brindamour 100% spells NJ or Philly. Maybe even St. Louis. I hope to GOD that the Canes cheapen out because Rod is probably the biggest bane for the islanders as a coach.

 

[leeroggy]

The problem that I see is that the reason Wahlstrom isn't playing on a regular basis and closer to reaching the 40 goal potential for a guy who's 6'2/200lbs with a truly elite shot is because...He's dumb as rocks. And sadly that cannot be fixed no matter what role or coach he has.

You're being unfair to rocks

We COULD re-coup some of our investment in him with some clever marketing . . .

Cut a few patches of his jersey and come up with a package with "Wally Rocks" and a rap jingle that plays when you open it up, similar to those greeting cards that have music.

To be fair to him, he gets one more year due to the way his injury tends to take a full year before you can expect a 100% recovery. A 4th line of Holms/McLean/Wally could be an interesting approach.

 

[WangMustGo]

I really like Roy as a coach but if the Canes cheap out on Ron Brind'Amour and he hits the market, Isles should be 100% all over that and sign him to a 10-year highly paid deal. Give him control of the front office and let him pick his GM too.

Why? He has had a great roster for years, yet never wins the cup, he hasn’t even been to a cup finals as a coach.

 

[Osakahaus]

Just saw this..and have been thinking about Winnipeg as a very good potential trading partner for us…even for something bigger.

If we are gonna trade with Winnipeg, give me Ehlers and at least one of their prospects.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I am 100% for this idea. The problem I see is that every NHL team not only scouted every single NHL player when they were <18 minor league prospects, but they have scouts at tons of games throughout the season scouting them now....because of a number of factors:

• They aren't confident yet.
• They haven't matured enough
• The coach is using them improperly
• The organization isn't developing them properly

Well, the players I mentioned - and there are certainly others of this type out there - are primarily guys who have all shown adequate NHL ability in showings (particularly Berggren), but are very much stuck in the numbers game (again, particularly Berggren) in their respective organizations.

Pelletier has suffered from your bolded point in Calgary, from what I've gathered.

The advantage for teams looking at Wahlstrom from the outside in is that they all know how Lou and the Islanders tick and realize that it's very, very difficult for one-trick offensive ponies to make it here. They basically just don't.

They can elsewhere. Wally can be a Daniel Sprong type for somebody out there.

I was also being nice in writing that the Isles scouting department should "work harder than ever" when what I really want is some changes to it. I know Lou hasn't exactly given them a lot to work with, but they also haven't capitalized on what they did have. Some very questionable picks based on process and I'm not sure the guys in the room can do better. And if that's the case then they need to be replaced.

...Which is why I'm dying for the Islanders to get a new team president. It's time for new (younger) perspective and fresh ideas around here.

From what I've gathered from draft expert folks I know who - quite honestly - don't have much time for the Islanders, the feeling is that the Isles draft A OK in light of what Lou gives them. Then again, they don't really weigh in the final two picks of any given draft much. When they rank the organization at the bottom of the league, that has to do with an utter lack of game-changing blue chippers combined with a generally small stable of prospects.

There are other teams that don't draft a whole lot, but they tend to grab more UFAs from college, juniors, or Europe to compensate. After a few years of being pretty quiet on that front, Lou has added Fulp, Mitchell, Thiesing, and now Warren but none (maybe Warren?) appears to be anything resembling a future NHL option.

But getting back to the draft, I don't think the scouting staff has a bad reputation in and of itself. It may have done real well for itself last summer with Nelson and Justin Gill.

This is a problem I often see on HFBoards...People are very "Islanders-centric" to a fault and don't consider what another team/the rest of the NHL might be thinking about the Isles and they're players (especially when it comes to trades).

I mean Pierre Engvall has another SIX (6) years left on his contract. I would be beyond floored if any other team took on that contract in a deal that actually benefitted the Islanders. Anders Lee would actually be easier to sell because he only has two (2) years left despite being at 7M/year because he can still score, is a captain, and you could retain 50% of his salary. Engvall is Jello on skates and no team needs a guy who is totally useless/a liability except for the roughly 10 goals a year he scores.

Here's the thing - the 5-7 guys around the league who I am thinking of.... Well they all still have another 6 years on their monstrous contracts.

Us moving Lee and either Mayfield/Engvall to get such a player is with the complete knowledge that we'd be adding an unmovable player, but one who could likely help us more, maybe considerably and the hope would be that the other team is so keen on getting rid of that contract that they'd view Lee and Mayfield/Engvall as the lesser of two cap evils while thinking that they can STILL use those players.

I don't see how the Isles dump his contract unless they give up a bunch extra in terms of picks and then that just winds up hurting the Isles in the long run.

Take a player like Kotkaniemi. He costs 1.2 MM per more than Engvall. The contract is just as long. Carolina has some players they need to pony up for soon (Necas, UFA Pesce, UFA Teravainen, then Jarvis).

Is there a lateral move there to be had, with the NYI benefit being that Kotkaniemi may one day have an Olli Jokinen like arrival at some point in the next 2-3 seasons?

 

[Tahoeblue]

Vegas has some players who are UFA's at the end of the season that other posters have mentioned. Carrier, Stephenson, Mantha and Martinez come to mind.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

If we are gonna trade with Winnipeg, give me Ehlers and at least one of their prospects.

I agree. I think a RHD like Pulock has a bit more market value than some here seem to understand and he can likely bring you back a bit more than just a small scoring winger who has only played more than 62 games in two of his last six seasons, although Ehlers would be a very interesting target for us.

I think you can pry away a prospect like Elias Salmonsson or a bubble Dman like Ville Heinola in such a deal as well.

 

[Osakahaus]

I agree. I think a RHD like Pulock has a bit more market value than some here seem to understand and he can likely bring you back a bit more than just a small scoring winger who has only played more than 62 games in two of his last six seasons, although Ehlers would be a very interesting target for us.

I think you can pry away a prospect like Elias Salmonsson or a bubble Dman like Ville Heinola in such a deal as well.

I heard that Heinola is backed up in the Jets system, so if the Islanders do want a younger LHD, then go for him.

 

[leeroggy]

I agree. I think a RHD like Pulock has a bit more market value than some here seem to understand and he can likely bring you back a bit more than just a small scoring winger who has only played more than 62 games in two of his last six seasons, although Ehlers would be a very interesting target for us.

I think you can pry away a prospect like Elias Salmonsson or a bubble Dman like Ville Heinola in such a deal as well.

Yes, agree on Pulock's worth. We had the jaundiced opinion on his due to the old 'familiarity breads contempt' thinking, but others see a 6'2"/215lb RHD who has 48G/143A in 486 games and a +55 career number, who is 29 years old and plays a game that doesn't rely on speed. Also has triple digit blocked shots every year.

For $5.75 million for a number of years to go, taking away cost uncertainty.

Neal Pionk and Tyler Myers have very similar contracts and stats. Both are UFA (edit: Pionk has one more year left) this year I believe. Myers is 33 and Pionk is 28. Pulock would rate favorably to Myers and he and Pionk seem similar in production.

Anyone who thinks he's not a desired piece for an NHL team doesn't know the sport. The issue is would he waive?

Right-Handed Defensemen Are the NHL’s Hot Commodity: Data Viz

There are more left-handed defensemen in the NHL overall, but seven of the top 10 highest-paid defensemen are right-handed shooters.

www.sportico.com

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

I heard that Heinola is backed up in the Jets system, so if the Islanders do want a younger LHD, then go for him.

I don't think there's much room here unless you move out Pelech. LHD is probably the most packed position on the Isles depth chart. This is assuming Reilly stays.

Pelech
Romanov
Reilly

You also probably want to get Bolduc some playing time.

If we're trading Wahlstrom in a "change of scenery" type trade, I'd rather get another forward prospect. We're weak and aging upfront.

 

[Throttle]

Why? He has had a great roster for years, yet never wins the cup, he hasn’t even been to a cup finals as a coach.

I agree. He’s also been able to mold the type of players he wants to run his system l, but hasn’t yielded anything yet for the ‘cup or bust’ types.

My guess is if he leaves, he’s not gonna be all that as expectations will be wildly different and so will the team.

If TOR flops and he’s available, TOR may throw tons of money at him to ‘fix’ their roster. Or SEA takes on him and his entire staff to save Francis.

 

[Osakahaus]

I don't think there's much room here unless you move out Pelech. LHD is probably the most packed position on the Isles depth chart. This is assuming Reilly stays.

Pelech
Romanov
Reilly

You also probably want to get Bolduc some playing time.

If we're trading Wahlstrom in a "change of scenery" type trade, I'd rather get another forward prospect. We're weak and aging upfront.

We really do not need to keep Wahlstrom. He's even slower than Matt Martin ffs

 

[Osakahaus]

Vegas has some players who are UFA's at the end of the season that other posters have mentioned. Carrier, Stephenson, Mantha and Martinez come to mind.

Carrier and Stephenson are the best needs for the isles, Mantha is the best want, Martinez is unrealistic but would be an excellent Andy Greene type player

God I want one of them but the cap is a problem. Pageau genuinely could be swapped out for Stephenson or even Carrier, lets be honest.

 

[leeroggy]

Carrier and Stephenson are the best needs for the isles, Mantha is the best want, Martinez is unrealistic but would be an excellent Andy Greene type player

God I want one of them but the cap is a problem. Pageau genuinely could be swapped out for Stephenson or even Carrier, lets be honest.

Stephenson is getting more than $5,000,000 on his next contract. 180 points in hist last 3 years. He's getting more like $7,500,000 per.

 

[Osakahaus]

Stephenson is getting more than $5,000,000 on his next contract. 180 points in hist last 3 years. He's getting more like $7,500,000 per.

No team would be that dumb to give him more than 7.5M, lets be honest

 

[leeroggy]

No team would be that dumb to give him more than 7.5M, lets be honest

There's a big difference between the opinions we have and the reality of signing a UFA in today's NHL. His FO% is above 50% the last 3 seasons and last year he got some Selke votes (albeit low down the poll). Also protects the puck well with only 18 giveaways in 75 games this year.

He's not signing for $5 million.

 

[Throttle]

Stephenson is getting more than $5,000,000 on his next contract. 180 points in hist last 3 years. He's getting more like $7,500,000 per.

Good luck to whomever pays him that amount. He’s a very good player, but he’s sheltered in the lineup and outside that with a higher amount of $, not gonna end well.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Why? He has had a great roster for years, yet never wins the cup, he hasn’t even been to a cup finals as a coach.

Theoretically, he's restrained by being in Carolina. Which is why I doubt he'd entertain an Isles offer, because the same restraints exist. A place like Philly, which has above average ability to spend and acquire players, would possibly be more attractive.