Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Osakahaus]

Wow, not even Lou related? Didn't he take over as not just GM, but President. Wasn't/isn't it his job to make this a first class organization top to bottom? I thought whole point of Lou, and all of that respectability bullshit, was about undoing what has been going on for decades. Silly me.

Again, this has been around for so long that I question if Bridgeport (or whatever AHL affiliate) will ever be fixed up. They just feel hopeless. It isn't even like the Mets where I actually like what they're doing from Brooklyn to Syracuse, the Islanders affiliate just feels lazy and lost. Ironically, them becoming the "brigeport islanders" just made them even worse.

 

[Torrey Redux]

There are ebbs and flows. When you're in more of a win-now mode, you use the draft picks to acquire NHL-ready players. My point however, remains. The Islanders have drafted, developed and/or traded for talented players that signed long term. That's been the strategy (albeit with mixed results). I'd be down with more focus on the draft and develop side of things and given the lack of trades at the deadline, I'd say that is what they are doing.

Whether we should have been in win-now mode is a debatable question and is one that I know you and I are on different sides of so no need to rehash that, but even in win-now mode, an organization should not be abandoning its development program. Nepotism is rarely a good look so it better work.

 

[Throttle]

But. you don't get to look at prospects and play out fantasies in your head about how they'll put up 100 point seasons next to each other.

Bingo!

 

[impaaaaaact]

You really can't say "well there's a chance the first round pick in the teens can bust" when the core of this team is built upon guys drafted right around then. Barzal and Dobson are Isles because Snow saw the value in extra picks.

That's not to say the draft is fool proof. But if you walk out of a draft with Alex Romanov when you're picking 13th, you've failed.

And to further that point, does anyone think they can get the 13th overall back for Romanov, now?

Sometimes you get Wahlstrom at 11, sometimes you get Dobson at 12. Romanov is comfortably between them at 13.

 

[SI]

This is 100% up to the owners, and whether they could come to a consensus. Tbh, I don't see it happening. But if the cap is going to increase significantly in 25-26, that might make pursuing a buyout that will hit harder in that season ( for example buying out Lee) easier to pull off.

According to the MOU, the max increase can only be 5% of the Top Cap Threshold (83.5), so 87.675 in 2024-25, and then puts the cap at 92.06 in 2025-26 and that summer a new CBA and the PA gets to negotiate a higher cap hit, possibly even above 100. For this upcoming season, even at 87.675 the Leafs, Vegas, the Wild, Rangers, and the Oilers will still be hard-pressed to field a full squad and other teams will find it difficult to improve.

At the moment, the League does not need to go beyond the MOU; there is no motivation to do so. The PA is losing jobs - 25 players according to the article because NHL teams are not fielding a full squad. I read an article last year - cannot find it - that the PA wanted a cut or wanted something to be considered HRR - hockey-related revenue - and the league was hoping maybe to negotiate a higher cap if the PA would drop their claim. It might have been an Friedge during a podcast.

You are correct, it may take a push from the owners to say, let's go up to 89 - 90 with a lock in the 6% escrow, so the cap increase can ease roster concerns, stoke free agent excitement, and help drive season ticket sales.

For this Islanders Fan, a higher cap hit means the ability for LL to bring in TWO key free agents as well as the ability to move out a player with a higher cap hit to help retool the roster.

 

[Throttle]

Maybe one of the reasons players want to play in Vegas....Is because the owner might be the most aggressive in the entire NHL.

The best player Lou acquired by far was Horvat. The rest of the time while he's shipping off 1sts for middle-level talent in Pageau, Palmieri, and Romanov, Vegas was out there putting a full court press on to acquire guys like Stone, Eichel, and Pietrangelo.

And I'm sure the retort will be that none of those players wanted to come here. And if so then I'd say if you can't lure a player to NY then your owner isn't being aggresssive enough or your GM isn't doing his job. Horvat had no problem committing the best years of his career to Long Island…Once the Islanders offered a contract commiserate with his asking price.





So Vegas is the team that wants to win. Phew. I was struggling for years trying to figure out which of the 32 it was.




Again…See above. The “Vegas” excuse is just lame. As if the Islanders and Knights switched cities all of a sudden the Isles would just start adding elite talent.

You’re damn right “it matters how you operate.” I’d say almost every team in the league is chasing Vegas in terms of management style right now.

We need to hold the Isles owners and front office accountable - Not make excuses for them.

Can’t lure any player to NY. If you were in NYCity you probably wouldn’t have a problem, but when you are second fiddle in the market and play in the ‘burbs, seems less appealing ‘to be lured to.’

If you look back at Horvat’s options, he didn’t have a lot going into UFA. His agent probably did an assessment of the market and said you can do this team or roll the dice and find yourself out there twisting in the wind like Johnny Trademark, that his agent had to call CLB to sucker them into signing him or get Klingberg’d. Some offseasons there’s not a lot of money around. I am stoked Horvat stuck around, but he also avoided a risky decision and got his money/term/home situation figured out quickly. To some people that’s very important, to others it’s not.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

The only drafted/developed player of recent vintage on your list is Dobson. That fact is pretty damning in and of itself.

Continually trading prime assets for good but not game changing players who are then signed to expensive long term deals hasn’t worked out. It was worth a shot and it gave us some thrills but that was several years ago.

Time for a new approach.

Good post.

 

[SI]

I’m a bit indifferent to the talk about buying out Lee and the benefits of a higher salary cap.

Haven’t we figured out that most UFAs aren’t looking at the Isles as their preferred destination? The higher cap may push each team’s UFA/RFA player’s salaries higher but for a team like the Isles I think that any additional benefit is overstated.

The key is to draft, develop and/or trade for talented players that will want to stay here long term.

Unfortunately, this is part of the equation and must be considered, so free agency does not come easy for the Isles and Lou. So, with dreams of Guentzel or Reinhart - those prime targets most likely sign elsewhere. So, in order for the Isles to sign a top free agent, they will have to leverage everything they have and obviously overpay, which a higher cap can do., like Columbus landing Gaudreau.

My hope is that the Isles can sign 2 guys that are top 6 - Marchessault and DeBrusk - fast, skilled, and tenacious on the forecheck. Marchessault played for Roy in the Q. DeBrusk is looking for $ the Bruins do not want to give him and may find a home on Barzal's left wing. They may still need to overpay for both and give more term, but these two moves inject some new blood as well as allow the Isles to keep their draft picks in this draft. A top 9 of

 

[Osakahaus]

My hope is that the Isles can sign 2 guys that are top 6 - Marchessault and DeBrusk - fast, skilled, and tenacious on the forecheck. Marchessault played for Roy in the Q. DeBrusk is looking for $ the Bruins do not want to give him and may find a home on Barzal's left wing. They may still need to overpay for both and give more term, but these two moves inject some new blood as well as allow the Isles to keep their draft picks in this draft.

Sad part is that I WISH they could get those two and yet they won't. Jake DeBrusk would be so good on the islanders and Marchessault would fill a much needed void on the 2nd line wing. Problem is: I dont expect it. I do not think we ever will be active in free agency at all. Lou will just take his nap instead.

and if it isn't the nap then its the islanders being stuck in cap hell due to Sorokin's contract bump kicking in next season. I really just want new blood. I get its overrated to say that but you have no clue how much either of those players would fix our problems to some degree.

 

[NC 1972]

Barzal, Dobson, Lee, Pelech, Pulock, Sorokin. All drafted, developed and signed long term. Romanov, Horvat, Varlamov, Palmieri, Pageau... all traded for and signed long term.

"Not talented enough" is a valid argument (though there are some pretty talented names on that list) but they have definitely subscribed to the strategy of of draft, develop and/or trade for talented players that will want to stay here long term.

You forgot Brock.

 

[Osakahaus]

You forgot Brock.

tbh Brock has been here so long that we forgot he was a 30th overall pick. Crazy how well their luck was. Would've been even better if Nino developed here

 

[Throttle]

Unfortunately, this is part of the equation and must be considered, so free agency does not come easy for the Isles and Lou. So, with dreams of Guentzel or Reinhart - those prime targets most likely sign elsewhere. So, in order for the Isles to sign a top free agent, they will have to leverage everything they have and obviously overpay, which a higher cap can do., like Columbus landing Gaudreau.

My hope is that the Isles can sign 2 guys that are top 6 - Marchessault and DeBrusk - fast, skilled, and tenacious on the forecheck. Marchessault played for Roy in the Q. DeBrusk is looking for $ the Bruins do not want to give him and may find a home on Barzal's left wing. They may still need to overpay for both and give more term, but these two moves inject some new blood as well as allow the Isles to keep their draft picks in this draft. A top 9 of

Free agency doesn’t come easy for the Isles. Not the isles and ‘Lou.’ Lou is one of the most respected GMs in the league, but he’s not a miracle worker on franchise-based factors.

If the Isles had a Crosby or McDavid their odds would be a ton higher, but they don’t and those guys are so rare to come around. Although, some people think you should rebuild until you get one, no matter the cost of rebuilding…

Lou developed players in Jersey bc that’s what they had to do. He later traded for premium talent bc again that’s what he had to do to get them to play there. It’s kinda the same with the Isles.

 

[doublechili]

If Lou stays (and Roy), the most interesting thing will be the kind of players the team keeps and acquires. Does Roy want more skill, and does Lou accommodate that?

 

[Glory Days]

I think this is similar to another conversation I had a few days ago about commenting on the game versus commenting on the state of the franchise.

In a GDT if I were to comment about something specific that happened it's very likely that someone will bring up the state of the franchise in some capacity. For example, Engvall makes a mistake and I comment on that mistake. There will inevitably be a comment about how I need to enjoy that for the next seven years because Lamoriello stinks. If Engvall were to score a hat trick and the Islanders win the game there would still be tons of commentary about how it doesn't matter because Lamoriello stinks.

For those who hate Lamoriello and/or where the franchise is right now nothing matters other than that. They'll make every post, whether it's about a game, a player, a salary, a trade, etc. about Lamoriello and why he needs to go. They also don't want to allow anyone else to enjoy the experience of a game, a season, or a playoff birth because they've already come to the conclusion that this team isn't going to win so no fun should be had.

The team is currently fighting for a WC2 spot, is it wrong for anyone to want the team to get that spot? Are people not allowed to comment on the team battling for that spot and be optimistic about it? I don't think optimism or hopefulness warrants a constant barrage from people who dislike where the franchise is headed and it doesn't mean that those optimistic fans will be happy or view the season as a success if the team does simply make it to the playoffs. If the team makes the playoffs I'd be happy for more hockey and reserve judgement on successfulness based off what happens then. I could be wrong but I tend to think most people view things similarly. I don't think being optimistic makes you complicit in what's happening.

If you're not enjoying the games, the season, the GM, the decisions being made, why are you bothering to watch? There's a desire for people to be correct and on the right side of whatever the dichotomy is and I think it leads to a lot of "I told you so"-ing, especially in the world of sports. This is something I'm guilty of too, it's hard not to sometimes. We should try to not do that as much.

And to be perfectly clear, while I'm responding to you directly I do not mean for the bulk of this to be at you.

Well said, I watch almost every game and always want the Isles to win. My in game experience has no bearing on my thoughts on the state of the team.

 

[Osakahaus]

Well said, I watch almost every game and always want the Isles to win. My in game experience has no bearing on my thoughts on the state of the team.

in many ways, i just think of this season as an immolation of the past six years

 

[Glory Days]

The only drafted/developed player of recent vintage on your list is Dobson. That fact is pretty damning in and of itself.

Continually trading prime assets for good but not game changing players who are then signed to expensive long term deals hasn’t worked out. It was worth a shot and it gave us some thrills but that was several years ago.

Time for a new approach.

Is it the approach or the results? Look at Vegas roster. They have very few home grown players and no Dobson. Both teams trade futures. I say don’t kill the approach but the results.

 

[The Real JT]

Is it the approach or the results? Look at Vegas roster. They have very few home grown players and no Dobson. Both teams trade futures. I say don’t kill the approach but the results.

The isles approach of trading futures for NHL players made the team better but frankly we hit a ceiling and it just wasn’t high enough to get us to the promised land. It was a valiant effort but changes need to be made. The franchise needs to learn from its mistakes.

The differentiating factor between the two teams is that top-tier players make it clear that Vegas is a preferred destination. The isles don’t have that advantage. Think of Vegas without Stone, Eichel and Pietrangelo.

It also goes without saying that player development is a key factor and we’re lagging behind on that end as well.

Time for a new approach.

 

[Glory Days]

The differentiating factor between the two teams is that top-tier players make it clear that Vegas is a preferred destination. The isles don’t have that advantage. Think of Vegas without Stone, Eichel and Pietrangelo.

It goes without saying that player development is also a key factor and we’re lagging behind on that end as well.

Sure Vegas has an advantage as a preferred destination. I still think Lou’s approach can work but the results need to be better. I’m not saying Lou should stay on but I’m not convinced that by keeping draft picks is a better path to winning.

 

[Osakahaus]

Sure Vegas has an advantage as a preferred destination. I still think Lou’s approach can work but the results need to be better. I’m not saying Lou should stay on but I’m not convinced that by keeping draft picks is a better path to winning.

Vegas also has NO INCOME TAX

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Where do most players who play in Vegas live? Sounds like a horrible place to live.

 

[Throttle]

Where do most players who play in Vegas live? Sounds like a horrible place to live.

Summerlin. 20 mins away from strip. 30 from airport. It’s nice in a planned community, track homeish kinda way. If you like that sort of thing.

Vegas also has NO INCOME TAX

Yet, the Rangers have no problems with talent landing there with same tax rate as the Isles.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Summerlin. 20 mins away from strip. 30 from airport. It’s nice in a planned community, track homeish kinda way. If you like that sort of thing.

Yikes. Just looked it up. Looks hideous.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Yet, the Rangers have no problems with talent landing there with same tax rate as the Isles.

Original 6 team (yes that matters to some players), MSG (most players have that as their favorite place to play), NYC.

 

[leeroggy]

tbh Brock has been here so long that we forgot he was a 30th overall pick. Crazy how well their luck was. Would've been even better if Nino developed here
View attachment 842287

I was just thinking the other day about why Ludvig Rensfeldt didn't make it big . . .

Vegas also has NO INCOME TAX

They also lead the league in strippers per player . . .

 

[Torrey Redux]

If Lou stays (and Roy), the most interesting thing will be the kind of players the team keeps and acquires. Does Roy want more skill, and does Lou accommodate that?

Given the Islanders limitations in terms of contracts, cap and prospects, the better question is: How would Lou accommodate that?

Actually, the even better question is: Will someone other than Lou be trying to accommodate that?