Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXX: Cue Europe

[GoAwayPanarin]

What significant injury history are you referring to? He had the blood clot scare. He plays at least 75 games almost every year. I think you are confusing him with someone else.

Significant is strong, but he's had the blood clots, a broken hand and a mystery neck issue.

Clots aren't really an "injury" per se. The Hand was the only big one which saw him miss a ton of time.

 

[bobbop]

The Rangers are actually going by what I thought their timeline was going to be thus far. Challenge for a spot next season and the year after that expect to make the playoffs and win at least a round.

They're better this year than I thought they'd be, and that's the good news. The bad news is the players that I would expect to spear head that effort haven't been the ones to do so.

They are within a few wins of challenging for a spot right now.

 

[Fitzy]

It’s not really about Kreider vs no Kreider. It’s Kreider vs losing other guys.

Yeah I don't see a realistic avenue to keeping both DeAngelo and Kreider.

And thats before we factor in downstream effects like affording Zibanejad.

 

[bobbop]

Because historically, players like Kreider don't age well after 30. I would gladly sign him for 4 years, but anything beyond that is just going to hurt us. This has nothing to do with Lias Andersson or Vitali Kravtsov, but everything with how you build a team. Giving a 29-year old power forward a 7-year extension for 8-9% of the cap is a disaster waiting to happen.

Chris Kreider will never be confused with Mike Gartner as a goal scorer but they are comparable as skaters. Gartner aged very well into his middle 30s. Just sayin...

 

[bobbop]

You damn well know there will be at least one, maybe two more Roster Building Threads....the minute one tweet comes out with the slightest inclination of possible movement we will get to 40 pages in no time. Lol

This!

We should be getting part XXXI warm in the bullpen.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

This!

We should be getting part XXXI warm in the bullpen.

If we have to go back 25 years to find a comparable, it basically proves my point

 

[bobbop]

Plus krieder has already had a significant injury history through his mid 20s. I wouldn’t resign him but if he is I hope JG makes certain that there’s not a no movement clause that torches any flexibility to move him after year 3 or 4

What significant injury history?

 

[eco's bones]

I, on the other hand, am worried about the cap flexibility we’ll have in 5 years knowing Kreider has 2 years left @7m with a NMC.

In 7 years the cap will probably be $15 mil higher if not more. We also might see compliance buyouts with a new CBA--so there are a lot of variables. And who said anything about giving Kreider an NMC?--the only years I would give Chris an NMC would be the first two or three years if at all.

Optimal would be to sign him for 5 years. I could live with 6 but really much rather 5. 7 years I'd be very iffy about.

But back to the cap it goes up every year and the Rangers right now have a shitload of ELC's and ELC's coming. They are cheap contracts. If you keep your pipeline alive and 2 or 3 new ELC's making the team every year that helps a team manage the cap a lot. Second contracts usually aren't back breakers either nor sometimes even third contracts.

 

[Avery16]

What does Strome and Skjei get us from Winnipeg?



Vesalainen and a 1st?

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

What does Strome and Skjei get us from Winnipeg?



Vesalainen and a 1st?

Both Skjei and Strome? I would hope Ehlers would be the main piece if both were getting traded.

 

[Fitzy]

Call me a skin Flint, but I don't think signing a player that you expect to have to compliance buyout down the road is a solid plan.

 

[RGY]

Posted this in the Howden thread... This is what concerns me about Kreider.

View attachment 321247







Sure, McD has more miles on the odometer and has dealt with more injuries, but this is the reality for most players once they hit their 30’s.

Extremely different circumstances between Kreider and McDonagh. You said it yourself, injuries and mileage played a strong factor in McDonagh’s downfall here. It was showing when he was still here. He logged so many minutes, regular season and playoffs. Kreider on the other hand has sustained way less injuries, is in much better physical shape, and his play has not tailed off. He has been just as consistent, if not better as of late.

Its just not comparable. Its not comparable to McDonagh or to the other power forwards everyone likes to bring up. Different players with different attributes and physical gifts.

 

[Salvage21]

All this talk about Kreider’s age and how much mileage is on his body but I can only really remember him playing in about half the games every year- and not hardly at all in the playoff

 

[Avery16]

Both Skjei and Strome? I would hope Ehlers would be the main piece if both were getting traded.

If Winnipeg wants Skjei and Strome it'd be about both building out their core and staying competitive this season. Ehlers is locked down to considerable term, and is currently producing. I don't see them being interested in moving him for a pending RFA like Strome. Maybe for someone like Lowry, who is on the IR and will be a UFA in a couple seasons. I think Vesalainen suits our needs better.

 

[duhmetreE]

Because historically, players like Kreider don't age well after 30. I would gladly sign him for 4 years, but anything beyond that is just going to hurt us. This has nothing to do with Lias Andersson or Vitali Kravtsov, but everything with how you build a team. Giving a 29-year old power forward a 7-year extension for 8-9% of the cap is a disaster waiting to happen.

6'3 220 and one of the fastest in the league... I'd love to see this list of comparables and how they've aged poorly.

Or are you just talking about players like Milan Lucic? you know because they're 'power forwards'

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

If Winnipeg wants Skjei and Strome it'd be about both building out their core and staying competitive this season. Ehlers is locked down to considerable term, and is currently producing. I don't see them being interested in moving him for a pending RFA like Strome. Maybe for someone like Lowry, who is on the IR and will be a UFA in a couple seasons. I think Vesalainen suits our needs better.

If the Rangers are trading Skjei prospects and picks cannot and should not be the return.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

6'3 220 and one of the fastest in the league... I'd love to see this list of comparables and how they've aged poorly.

Or are you just talking about players like Milan Lucic? you know because they're 'power forwards'

Alright. Give me some examples of players comparable to Kreider who have played at the same high level until they were 35.

 

[duhmetreE]

IF/when we sign Kreider, we'd possibly have our top6 set for 5+ years.

Kreider Zibs Buch/Kakko/Kravtsov
Panarin Chytil Buch/Kakko/Kravtsov

but who wants that? lets get Frederic and a 1st.

5-6years x $7M. get it done

 

[Ola]

Yeah I don't see a realistic avenue to keeping both DeAngelo and Kreider.

And thats before we factor in downstream effects like affording Zibanejad.

Yeah, and I mean, players are producing and playing well. Take Buch for example, on pace for 50 pts again and he had a big drought. He is maturing and filling out his body and maybe most importantly building up his confidence.

Is 60 pts out of the question? I think 60 pts more or less should be expected. What is the going rate for a 6’3 winger 25 y/o who scores 60 pts? It’s not less than 7m.

Fox will get paid. Chytil will get paid. Kakko will get paid. Like who isn’t getting paid? Sure we got some buy outs coming off the books and so forth.

We are also not locking up the young players while we can, just pushing the problem in front of us.

I don’t for a second think Gorton even would consider a trade if it was about Kreider vs a certain amount of futures. Keeping Kreider will result in other casualties in the near future.

 

[duhmetreE]

Alright. Give me some examples of players comparable to Kreider who have played at the same high level until they were 35.

That's not how that works. You made the statement. You're the one that needs to back it up.

A player with similar toolset would be Bill Guerin. Players like Kreider are extremely rare.. some would say almost as rare as players like Panarin becoming UFAs...

Maybe Marleau?

 

[RGY]

Yeah, and I mean, players are producing and playing well. Take Buch for example, on pace for 50 pts again and he had a big drought. He is maturing and filling out his body and maybe most importantly building up his confidence.

Is 60 pts out of the question? I think 60 pts more or less should be expected. What is the going rate for a 6’3 winger 25 y/o who scores 60 pts? It’s not less than 7m.

Fox will get paid. Chytil will get paid. Kakko will get paid. Like who isn’t getting paid? Sure we got some buy outs coming off the books and so forth.

We are also not locking up the young players while we can, just pushing the problem in front of us.

I don’t for a second think Gorton even would consider a trade if it was about Kreider vs a certain amount of futures. Keeping Kreider will result in other casualties in the near future.

I would rather trade Buchnevich for other pieces and keep Kreider. Those pieces in a trade for Buchnevich may not produce as much but are cheaper and play a style that diversifies the team more and makes them more complete when battling in the playoffs.

 

[mike14]

6'3 220 and one of the fastest in the league... I'd love to see this list of comparables and how they've aged poorly.

Or are you just talking about players like Milan Lucic? you know because they're 'power forwards'

I'm not all over this debate, but isn't Kreider being the 'perfect blend' of power-forward and skating supremo actually a case against him? As in; if 'most' players start to deteriorate as they age in some way, isn't Kreider doubly-susceptible as he could lose his speed and/or his physical/net-front skills, either of which would make him a lesser player? So its very possible we either end up with McKegg (all speed, not much else) or Simmonds (will still go to the front of the net, but achieves SFA).

 

[Kupo]

Extremely different circumstances between Kreider and McDonagh. You said it yourself, injuries and mileage played a strong factor in McDonagh’s downfall here. It was showing when he was still here. He logged so many minutes, regular season and playoffs. Kreider on the other hand has sustained way less injuries, is in much better physical shape, and his play has not tailed off. He has been just as consistent, if not better as of late.

Its just not comparable. Its not comparable to McDonagh or to the other power forwards everyone likes to bring up. Different players with different attributes and physical gifts.

McDonagh’s a beast physically as well. The crazy thing is how quickly his production has dropped, so early in his new contract. Kreider will age better, but how much better?

Would you be happy with CK being a 50PT player the first 2 years with his contract, then a 40pt player the last 5 years?

Like I’ve mentioned, I’m not worried about CK next year or the year after that. It’s years 3-7 knowing he’ll lose a step and his production will decline. And we’ll be saddled with yet another contract that’s basically unmovable.

 

[Avery16]

If the Rangers are trading Skjei prospects and picks cannot and should not be the return.

1) we aren't in the playoffs this season, and probably not next season either. 2) Vesalainen probably ready to make the jump for third-line minutes. 3) Our top four will be fine (at least not much worse than currently) as ADA/Trouba, Lindgren/Fox. 4) Strome and Skjei for Vesalainen and a 1st cuts about 7.5 million off our books right before about ….. 7.5 million in buyout penalties kicks in.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Re: Whether we are a playoff team or not.

This year is going to be tough to make it but even if they do, they'll get waxed in 4 or 5 games just like the 05-06 team did. Not enough experience or scoring depth to match the likes of the Caps, Bolts, Bruins, and Pens in a potential 1st round match up.

Next year if they find a way to offload Lundqvist's salary and bring Kreider back on a 4 or 5 year deal, extend DeAngelo, and use the left over money to fortify the bottom six forward group, I'd say they will make it if they outright bench Smith and Staal or find a taker for one or both at the deadline or over the summer 2020.