Salary Cap: Roster-building Thread XXIX : Forget Talent... we need Heart! (And apparently Staal?)

[Asuna]

I'd expect so too.

Great avatar

 

[Ogelthorpe]

A good number of people on this board were fine with the Letang contract, and once Johnston was hired, many were ecstatic.

If you have a ridiculously embarrassing, poor opinion of Letang, that's fine, but please don't project it on others.


Anyhow, acquiring Staal now wouldn't be as bad as it was 3 years ago, and I'm shocked so many people are against it.

1) The winger situation now is infinitely better than it was when Staal was here.

2) Those wingers are on decent contracts, are young, and should be around for a while

3) Brandon Sutter will command a raise. He's not worth it, but he'll get it. It will be to the point where you are paying him within 1 or 2 million of what Jordan Staal is making.

A good 3C nowadays will either be on his ELC/Bridge contract or making 5M. Since Jordan Staal is the best of the best, 6M is right in line.

4) Without Cap Geek it's a bit hard, but I'm almost positive a great purging is not necessary to bring Staal in and maintain roster integrity.

I'm surprised so many people are claiming it does, without doing the math.


5) With Perron, Hornqvist, Comeau, and Bennett, plus Kapanen and whatever other finds they have in the off-season, your top-6 might not be set, but it's the best it's been in quite some time. Meanwhile, the bottom-6 continues to be a mess.

6) I like everything I read about Sundqvist, but it's unrealistic to expect him to be a 15-minute a night guy in his first season. 4C or some winger time should be his destiny for the first two seasons. AND THAT'S OKAY. Jesus, it's fine to have him work his way up. His game sounds tailor made for that.

7) People keep talking about the Penguins' lack of size and physicality. Staal instantly transforms his line. In fact, I would argue that having a 3rd line of something like

Spaling - Staal - Bennett immediately frees up Letang's pair from the "shutdown" role, allows you to use Despres/Scuderi or whoever, and let's Letang, Crosby, and Malkin play much freer roles than they play now.

Very good points, and I would be all for Staal returning on 2 conditions

1) It doesn't in anyway mean Geno get's **** on and plays with scraps the rest of his career. As long as he has at least 1 quality top 6 wing, I'd be ok with the right tweener as the other.

2) We don't overpay by parting with too many picks or prospects. Sutter, Kunitz, Martin, Ehrhoff, are roster players I'd let go. I'd part with just about any prospect other than Pouliot, and Kapanen. I would be very hesitant of Sundqvist as well.

If the offer was say
Sutter Kunitz Martin Guentzel Blueger late pick

for

Staal and either Tlusty or Sekera

I'd be OK with that

 

[penguins2946*]

If we can move those 3, how much money is that?

Sutter- 3.3
Kunitz- 3.85
Scuds- 3.375

Round 10.5M? We can bring in some solid help with that additional 4.5M, say a Sekera or Bergenheim

Both Oshie and Eriksson make exactly $4.5 million, so people saying we can't fit in a good winger with bringing in Staal aren't doing the math.

 

[eXile59]

No, because his decision making isn't as sound. His physical gifts are right up there among the best.



When Ehrhoff was healthy, especially at the start of the season, wasn't he playing the shutdown role?

You don't think those other players make bad decisions with the puck? I hate to break it to you but they do not go entire seasons without mistakes. Especially Doughty.

 

[systemsgo]

Great avatar

Haha, thought it was real fitting after those horrible games.

 

[pensfan71]

Both Oshie and Eriksson make exactly $4.5 million, so people saying we can't fit in a good winger with bringing in Staal aren't doing the math.

We can't afford the pieces for Oshie. Maybe Eriksson, but how likely is it that Boston is gonna trade Eriksson to us

 

[Kristopher Letang]

Both Oshie and Eriksson make exactly $4.5 million, so people saying we can't fit in a good winger with bringing in Staal aren't doing the math.

The problem come the year after that with Perron Despres Maatta extensions/raise

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I'd be over the moon if we moved Sutter, Kunitz and Scuderi. I really wouldn't even give a **** who we got back, to be honest. Move Scuderi for a 4th rounder. I just want to dump 'em all, because I think they do far more harm than good to this team moving forward.

If we managed to get Staal back while parting with the three of them, I'd be ecstatic.

 

[systemsgo]

You don't think those other players make bad decisions with the puck? I hate to break it to you but they do not go entire seasons without mistakes. Especially Doughty.

If you look hard enough, every D makes mistakes. Letang just makes them more often. He's still very good, but I don't see why it's an insult to say he isn't as good as Weber, and even Doughty. Weber is hands down the best defenceman in the league. Should every teams' fans get insulted when people say their 1C isn't as good as Crosby?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

The problem come the year after that with Perron Despres Maatta extensions/raise

But in two years, you're looking at the cap being somewhere around $73M. That's relatively conservative as well, considering it'd be a $2M increase each year from now until then. Theoretically, it could be as high at $77M, but that'd be about as high as I'd expect two years from now.

Either way, there's more than enough wiggle room. My worry is that Staal coming back means Geno goes back to winger. Or that JR & Co. are effectively throwing in the towel and saying "Screw finding wingers. We'll fall back on the 3C model."

 

[penguins2946*]

We can't afford the pieces for Oshie. Maybe Eriksson, but how likely is it that Boston is gonna trade Eriksson to us

If they get the right return, I don't see why they wouldn't. They did trade Boychuk to the Islanders instead of Edmonton.

The problem come the year after that with Perron Despres Maatta extensions/raise

Eriksson is a UFA after next year, so we could walk away from him if we needed to. Also, those 4 will likely be getting around $14 million, which should still be workable with our cap. We just can't be handing out multi year deals like candy this summer. We need another Ehrhoff situation like last year (1 year deal for cheap).

 

[systemsgo]

We can't afford the pieces for Oshie. Maybe Eriksson, but how likely is it that Boston is gonna trade Eriksson to us

Yepp, we don't have anything the Blues need and the Bruins won't do us any favours.

 

[pensfan71]

If they get the right return, I don't see why they wouldn't. They did trade Boychuk to the Islanders instead of Edmonton.



Eriksson is a UFA after next year, so we could walk away from him if we needed to. Also, those 4 will likely be getting around $14 million, which should still be workable with our cap. We just can't be handing out multi year deals like candy this summer. We need another Ehrhoff situation like last year (1 year deal for cheap).

I don't think Boston thought NYI would do as well as they did...

 

[penguins2946*]

Yepp, we don't have anything the Blues need and the Bruins won't do us any favours.

I really don't think GMs are as petty as HFers are tbh. Really, I don't think the Bruins trading us Eriksson is any different or any more unlikely than the Hawks trading us Sharp. As long as they get a solid return, I don't think it would matter.

I don't think Boston thought NYI would do as well as they did...

I really don't think it's a big deal. We're not in the same division as them, and they need to clear cap space.

 

[Master Shake*]

I wonder if a trade with Boston involving Letang and Lucic would be viable

 

[penguins2946*]

I wonder if a trade with Boston involving Letang and Lucic would be viable

No, that's a terrible idea.

 

[pensfan71]

I wonder if a trade with Boston involving Letang and Lucic would be viable

Bad idea

 

[Asuna]

Why do people still want to trade Letang? lol

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

In a perfect world, we're getting rid of Sutter, Kunitz, and Scuderi's contracts between now and October. We're losing Martin's deal as we let him walk. We're losing Ehrhoff's deal as we let him walk. That's a huge chunk of money to work with in terms of retooling the roster. Add to that Dupuis' deal as I doubt he ever plays again. You're looking at $24M in free space to fill out the roster. Assume Staal's coming back, that's still $18M.

Perron - Crosby - Hornqvist
Staal - Malkin - Comeau
XXXX - Spaling - Bennett
Farnham - Lapierre - XXXX

Letang - Maatta
Despres - XXXX
Harrington - Pouliot
Dumoulin

That's a huge chunk of change to fill out a top 4 defenseman, a 3rd line winger and a 4th line winger. You could very realistically land a guy I'd be gunning for in Boychuk and still have $12M+ to spend on two bottom six players, or one bottom six player and a 2nd line winger for Geno if Staal's gonna be 3C.

It wouldn't be overly hard to get the roster to near perfection. We'd just need a front office with the brains and the balls to get it done.

 

[cassius]

If we took on Staal's mega overpaid $6M/year deal for 8 years.. it would go down as the worst trade and worst player contract in Pittsburgh Penguins history.

Staal would be great at $4M.. but he's at $6M. For 8 more freaking years. That is a NON starter.

We ***** about contracts like Kunitz and Scuderi, yet somehow this deal is any better? Do you want to be paying a 30+ year old Staal $6M/year?

Recreating the 09 team by bringing back former Pens for 2nd stints needs to die... what's next? Bringing in Talbot and Kennedy? Because they played alright for us 5 years ago?

 

[pensfan71]

In a perfect world, we're getting rid of Sutter, Kunitz, and Scuderi's contracts between now and October. We're losing Martin's deal as we let him walk. We're losing Ehrhoff's deal as we let him walk. That's a huge chunk of money to work with in terms of retooling the roster. Add to that Dupuis' deal as I doubt he ever plays again. You're looking at $24M in free space to fill out the roster. Assume Staal's coming back, that's still $18M.

Perron - Crosby - Hornqvist
Staal - Malkin - Comeau
XXXX - Spaling - Bennett
Farnham - Lapierre - XXXX

Letang - Maatta
Despres - XXXX
Harrington - Pouliot
Dumoulin

That's a huge chunk of change to fill out a top 4 defenseman, a 3rd line winger and a 4th line winger. You could very realistically land a guy I'd be gunning for in Boychuk and still have $12M+ to spend on two bottom six players, or one bottom six player and a 2nd line winger for Geno if Staal's gonna be 3C.

Yes...do people not understand we still have enough money to fill out a legitimate, contending roster wherever Staal plays?

 

[systemsgo]

I don't think Boston thought NYI would do as well as they did...

Yup, this. The Bruins were the President's trophy winner, and probably didn't expect the Isles to be able to line up Leddy as well (didn't the Boychuk trade go down before Leddy's?).

I really don't think GMs are as petty as HFers are tbh. Really, I don't think the Bruins trading us Eriksson is any different or any more unlikely than the Hawks trading us Sharp. As long as they get a solid return, I don't think it would matter.

Well, it's not about being petty. But if we offer what amounts to the same value as a non-rival Eastern team or a West coast team, the Bruins are going to trade with them instead of us.

I wonder if a trade with Boston involving Letang and Lucic would be viable

No thanks.

 

[joeyjake5]

Its all about the cap. At 6MM, Staahl is not worth it.

Facts about JS. 1) what great things has he done with the Canes. 2) He is not an offensively gifted C. Look at what he did not do against TB in the playoffs when Sid, Geno and Cooke were not available. 3) In the Flies playoffs, JS was horrible on the PK and was just as bad as MAF in that series. 4) JS brought you Sutter, Pouliett, and Dumo. Since JS's play has declined since then, if you trade for him you give the Canes less than Sutter, Pouliett and Dumo.

But the big Question, how do you fit him under the cap. And Francis will not want any of the pens old men's club ( Kunitz, Scuds, Duper and Adams included in the trade).

 

[pensfan71]

You gotta be high if you think taking on a $6M/year for 8 year third line center.. who would be a tweener in the top-6

It's what asking prices are for 3C's anyways, might as well get a good one

 

[Master Shake*]

Lucic is what we need. Put him with Sid