Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

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Machinehead

GoAwayTrouba
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Man, you kill me with this shit. He's 21. I very much hope you are wrong.

When that PP goes cold, it is so deeply buried in the freezer and is absolutely glaring in a playoff series.
You're speaking to an unsolvable problem. Every Cup winner ever had to win the series their powerplay wasn't that great in.

Hell, teams have gone all the way with their powerplay being mostly bad.

Our powerplay is objectively one of the best in the league. Their hiccups are put under a microscope because we're so bad at even strength.
 

effen

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The issue with that, and others have touched on this, is that a LH bumper doesn't really make any sense in the PP setup we've had the most success with.
Washington's PP wasn't dissimilar setup wise with OV and Mika on slapper island and Lavi ran a fair amount of set plays for Oshie (RH) in that bumper. I'd wager that at least to start the PP will mirror what we ran last year with Trochek doing the same thing.

I'd also say that having a setup guy who can skate and cleanly handle the puck, AKA not Trouba, will dramatically improve the second unit who couldn't even get zone entry half the time. Gustafsson, Jones, pretty much anyone else QBing that second unit will make it look a lot better, particularly if the first unit can get a move on and stop sniffing farts on the perimeter.
 
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LaffyTaffy13

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May 10, 2022
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atop of the conference and probably the league.

Can we also add 'understanding 3v3 OT'? because that obviously wasn't coached and there was never a plan.

There's a lot of PTS that can be added to the foundation of the team imo
Agreed.
 

duhmetreE

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I think a directive to make PP1 setup with more pace than a slug would accomplish a lot. Slowly wheeling around the perimeter like they do a lot is just fart sniffing.
it needs to be an option especially when they play the top PK units which tend to be aggressive and attack up high.
 

effen

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The panarin hate here is still wild to me haha. Wasnt great in 2022 playoffs and sucked this years playoffs but best ufa ever signed here


He is correctly held to an extremely high standard given his salary, position on the team, carte blanche to do what he wants on ice, and the fact he plays at like 70% effort level an overwhelming amount of the time.

We don't have to imagine what 100% Panarin looks like, we saw it his first year here when he was a top-3 MVP candidate. He should try more instead of us being nicer. FOH.
 

bleedblue94

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At that time not in hindsight 3 years later who did you say we should draft?
Honestly, I didnt want to make that pick. IF the option was even there to make a 1 for 3+5 i would have done that bc while i thought laffy would be a very good nhl player i didnt think he would be SO good that it would make up for this org's glaring issues up the middle and the options that were there after him. IF the 3+5 was there i would have made it, hoped stuz fell to 3 but happily taken byfield, and then probaly would have traded back from 5 if there was a good offer that kept you in the top 10 to still take lundell.

sanderson looks like a great pick but i didnt know enough about how his offense would grow at the pro level. i would not have wanted drysdale with fox already here. we knew they also had interest in holloway and guhle. I think the other parts would have worked themselves out based on the players the org was interested in. i understand WHY they didnt want to trade out of 1oa based on history and this kind of being justification to the whole letter, and i also understand WHY they took laffy bc if they passed on him the pr for the team would have been awful in the short term and also in the long term if laffy did establish himself in those first 3 years.
 
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Rongomania

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You're speaking to an unsolvable problem. Every Cup winner ever had to win the series their powerplay wasn't that great in.

Hell, teams have gone all the way with their powerplay being mostly bad.

Our powerplay is objectively one of the best in the league. Their hiccups are put under a microscope because we're so bad at even strength.

I don't think it's totally 'unsolvable'. I just don't think it should be off the table to tinker with a great pp, even drastically after we got embarrassed by a rival in a playoff series (outside of shest and fox). As I've stated before, it is not impossible to reassemble the 'regular season up until round 2' PP1 superfriends... I'm not against that. I just think Kak and Laf together on PP1 may get both of them really going and I don't think it will hurt us or the team. Again, PP2 would now be the best PP2 in the league in this scenario.
 

Machinehead

GoAwayTrouba
Jan 21, 2011
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I don't think it's totally 'unsolvable'. I just don't think it should be off the table to tinker with a great pp, even drastically after we got embarrassed by a rival in a playoff series (outside of shest and fox). As I've stated before, it is not impossible to reassemble the 'regular season up until round 2' PP1 superfriends... I'm not against that. I just think Kak and Laf together on PP1 may get both of them going and I don't think it will hurt us or the team. Again, PP2 would now be the best PP2 in the league in this scenario.
We got embarrassed in the playoffs because we're just not that good 5v5. I think that should be a much higher priority.
 

GoAwayPanarin

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The panarin hate here is still wild to me haha. Wasnt great in 2022 playoffs and sucked this years playoffs but best ufa ever signed here



If I change the parameters to 2021, that list grows and he falls to 15th. If we go based off of just last year, he falls to 26th.

I'll take trending the wrong way for 500.

Plus the hate isn't really based off of his regular season performance. You and others keep ignoring why he's getting the shit hes been getting. He could win the Hart next year and I wouldn't care if he ghosts in the playoffs again.

On the other hand, he could be sub PPG in the RS and if he wins the Conn Smythe, no one would ever have a bad word to say about him again.
 

bleedblue94

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The panarin hate here is still wild to me haha. Wasnt great in 2022 playoffs and sucked this years playoffs but best ufa ever signed here


two elite event strength seasons and then the adjustment in his game would explain it. no one is criticizing the panarin of those first two years, they criticize what he has become since...

2020 69gp 71 esp
2021 42gp 40 esp

1 esp per game

2022 75gp 59 esp
2023 82gp 56 esp

.73 esp per game

NHL scoring has also gone up in these last two years while panarin's scoring has slipped at 5v5 and his ppp has jumped considerably.

He was 26 in the league this past year behind league greats like carter verhaeghe, brock nelson, and alex tuch. all good nhl players but their total cap hit is 14.1m. the highest being 6m. there have been two panarins here divided by that washington game. panarin hasnt been a bad signing but he has changed since the wilson thing and his game has changed. i hope lavy can get it back to where it was.
 

bleedblue94

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We got embarrassed in the playoffs because we're just not that good 5v5. I think that should be a much higher priority.
if we are so bad at 5v5 (i agree that we were) then i think it is reasonable to expect our highest paid player to stop regressing his game at 5v5 and maybe recommit to the things that made him so effective those first couple years. i think people now forget just how much time bread spent attacking the slot in those years and how much space it opened for his elite vision and passing. the guy was an animal when he attacked and teams had to respect his shot. i miss that player, hope i see him again
 

Rongomania

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We got embarrassed in the playoffs because we're just not that good 5v5. I think that should be a much higher priority.

Specifically Laf/Kak/Chytil. More scoring. Period. Two out of the three must break out within this current window for us to break through in the playoffs. I think that's really the bottom line. That should be the priority. Otherwise we're going back to the lottery baby boy.
 

Machinehead

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Jan 21, 2011
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if we are so bad at 5v5 (i agree that we were) then i think it is reasonable to expect our highest paid player to stop regressing his game at 5v5 and maybe recommit to the things that made him so effective those first couple years. i think people now forget just how much time bread spent attacking the slot in those years and how much space it opened for his elite vision and passing. the guy was an animal when he attacked and teams had to respect his shot. i miss that player, hope i see him again
Panarin was our best forward 5v5 this past year and the only guy in his zip code was Kreider.
 

Machinehead

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Specifically Laf/Kak/Chytil. More scoring. Period. Two out of the three must break out within this current window for us to break through in the playoffs. I think that's really the bottom line. That should be the priority. Otherwise we're going back to the lottery baby boy.
Right and letting Laf have a bunch of PP time so he ostensibly scores more points (he probably doesn't - he's literally one of the worst powerplay players in the 21st century, but I digress) isn't going to make him have more of an impact at even strength.
 
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bleedblue94

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Panarin was our best forward 5v5 this past year and the only guy in his zip code was Kreider.
It doesnt make him good as a 5v5 player if the whole team was shit 5v5 and he was the best of the shit. the guy would torch bad defensive teams but anyone with awareness would know he would either come down the left and make the hard backhand pass high slot or curl to the boards and try to find a trailer. He was horrific with turnovers on his own side of the red line as well. I am not sure how you quantify "best forward 5v5"
 

Rongomania

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Right and letting Laf have a bunch of PP time so he ostensibly scores more points (he probably doesn't - he's literally one of the worst powerplay players in the 21st century, but I digress) isn't going to make him have more of an impact at even strength.

Yes. I do completely agree last year was totally f*cked. Kak should have been given the long PP1 leash and Laf should have been counted on more on PP2. It was reversed and pissed me off to no end. Kak drew many penalties and went right to the bench. He should've stayed out there all of those times. You saw it on his face.

This year should be different, I really want to see both of them getting long, long leashes.
 

bleedblue94

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Right and letting Laf have a bunch of PP time so he ostensibly scores more points (he probably doesn't - he's literally one of the worst powerplay players in the 21st century, but I digress) isn't going to make him have more of an impact at even strength.
agree he has been awful on the pp but ANY skilled player will tell you that getting easy touches on the pp and handling pucks and such during a game will roll over into a level of confidence at 5v5. there is no guarantee that it will happen with him but at some point he or kakko needs to get an extended look
 

IDvsEGO

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Oct 11, 2016
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The two chosen ones need to be playing 20 mins per night. That's really what I'm most into, the further development of these two.

Let's just make it happen. At this point, after that display a few months ago .. no reason to say those two haven't 'earned' big minutes in most situations out of the gate. No one has. They were all stale ass after game two except shest and fox. Especially the 11 million dollar man.

I'll see it as a red flag if lavi doesn't touch pp1 drastically and include at least one of them.
You don’t get 20 minutes a night without pp1 time
 

Machinehead

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agree he has been awful on the pp but ANY skilled player will tell you that getting easy touches on the pp and handling pucks and such during a game will roll over into a level of confidence at 5v5. there is no guarantee that it will happen with him but at some point he or kakko needs to get an extended look
Sure, for Kakko, I would buy that. I don't know if an "easy touch" exists for Lafreniere.
It doesnt make him good as a 5v5 player if the whole team was shit 5v5 and he was the best of the shit. the guy would torch bad defensive teams but anyone with awareness would know he would either come down the left and make the hard backhand pass high slot or curl to the boards and try to find a trailer. He was horrific with turnovers on his own side of the red line as well. I am not sure how you quantify "best forward 5v5"
He would be one of the better ones on a any team. He's still extremely effective 5v5.

He had 56 even strength points despite his worst shooting luck year as a Ranger and he drives play in the right direction on both ends of the ice.

Even the last two years, which are the years he allegedly sucked, he's 13th in the NHL in 5v5 points. Since he joined the team, he's 6th.

The criticism of his performance in the playoffs is valid. The criticism of Panarin as an even strength player isn't founded by anything. Honestly, I don't even know where it comes from.

I think he's just really good on the powerplay and some people just don't like some of his habits, and the myth grew from there.
 

TGWL

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The bumper doesn't have to be LH. It's been plenty successful with Zibanejad there.

Plus guys move around the ice and line up in different spots to the point where it becomes inter changeable. At least thats how its been when its really humming.
The point was the bumper works better for RH in our setup. Zibanejad is a RH shooter.
 

TGWL

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Right and letting Laf have a bunch of PP time so he ostensibly scores more points (he probably doesn't - he's literally one of the worst powerplay players in the 21st century, but I digress) isn't going to make him have more of an impact at even strength.
Players who touch the puck a lot more, especially in open space areas, generally feel more confident through-out the game with the puck. I've seen that with Kakko. I haven't seen that with Laf. Right now putting him on the powerplay just to increase his point total, screams "I want to tell everybody I told you so when he hits 50 points." Maybe he comes into camp with a lot more confidences, a little more explosiveness in his legs, a motor that keeps the legs moving, and plays a more meaningful 5 on 5 role, but until then I don't think tossing him on the powerlay just to increase his totals benefits us.
 

HockeyBasedNYC

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What good is a player if he sucks when it matters?

His hate is justified till he puts on his big boy pants in the playoffs.
He got a bit of a pass from me two years ago when they got to the conf. final because he was injured. Even with the big goal against Pitt, his performance was disappointing.

But going into last year it was reported (his words) that he was disappointed in his postseason play. I kinda felt that he was not only gearing himself up for a big run but was also saving some energy throughout the year and during the homestretch. I saw some good things from him defensively and even throwing the body around at times which was a little shocking. I felt he was trying to get into good playoff habits.

But once the series with the Devils began it was lights out. I dont know if it was mental (maybe shaving the head / removing "bad karma" points to that), but whatever the case he completely disappeared and wasnt even close to the player we see in the reg season.

The "hate" is justified and that would be the same for any player on any team who takes up 14% of the cap space, is on PP1, gets top 6 min and assets are spent to bring in players to compliment them. I love watching Bread play, but a championship is always the goal and the playoffs are a different game entirely. If star players cant have their usual effectiveness when it counts then all they become is ticket fodder for the regular season.
 
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