Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[TGWL]

Vesey being 0.1M overpaid is destroying our cap management!

 

[NYR Viper]

Rangers came in 11th place in the league in the Athletics contract efficiency ranking

NHL contract efficiency, 2023 edition: Which teams spend their money most wisely?

Here’s how each NHL team stacks up with regard to the efficiency of all the skater contracts they currently have signed.

theathletic.com

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Okay, Pitlick is a C+? It's a 1 year deal for $0.8m

Vesey is also a C+? What?

Also Miller as a B- is hysterical

 

[Machinehead]

Dom's point of view, regarding guys like Vesey and Pitlick, is that 4th liners just shouldn't be paid.

I'm not saying I disagree with that as a theory, but there's rules.

 

[Machinehead]

Also, as much as it's fun to rip on Dom and commiserate over "so and so hates the Rangers," we're 11th despite having an absolute albatross in Trouba. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Leonardo87]

Also, as much as it's fun to rip on Dom and commiserate over "so and so hates the Rangers," we're 11th despite having an absolute albatross in Trouba. There's nothing wrong with that.

Don't really put too much trust in what Dom has to say about contracts.

 

[NYR Viper]

Dom's point of view, regarding guys like Vesey and Pitlick, is that 4th liners just shouldn't be paid.

I'm not saying I disagree with that as a theory, but there's rules.

I mean $50k above the minimum? That's like saying Fox is overpaid because he makes $50k too much. It's peanuts

 

[Machinehead]

I mean $50k above the minimum? That's like saying Fox is overpaid because he makes $50k too much. It's peanuts

He doesn't go by the minimum, he goes by what they're "worth." According to his calculations, Goodrow should be paying his team like $9m to employ him.

Again, probably not incorrect, but it's not a realistic way of looking at it. Value should start at league minimum because that's literally where value starts.

 

[Machinehead]

I actually like Dom's philosophy that elite players provide worth beyond the max. If you're paying a guy the max salary, and he scores 2 million goals, that surplus value is real.

It doesn't swing the other way because of the simple concept of replacement. If Trouba isn't in the lineup, somebody else is. Somebody else is making at least $750k.

 

[haohmaru]

Vesey is also a C+? What?

Stopped taking it even remotely seriously after seeing that "analysis".

 

[effen]

That model is really, really stupid. Why publish that.

 

[Rongomania]

Laf and Kak = PP1. Doing this you also upgrade the absolute f*ck out of PP2 with the old PP1 leftovers.

I'm sorry, I'm going to beat this drum as the book is out on our powerplay in the playoffs. Devs figured it out. Tampa figured it out. A drastic change needs to happen. It's dynamite a lot of the time, but what we saw in the playoffs was ugly when it got figured out.

 

[TGWL]

Laf and Kak = PP1. Doing this you also upgrade the absolute f*ck out of PP2 with the old PP1 leftovers.

I'm sorry, I'm going to beat this drum as the book is out on our powerplay in the playoffs. Devs figured it out. Tampa figured it out. A drastic change needs to happen. It's dynamite a lot of the time, but what we saw in the playoffs was ugly when it got figured out.

They both shouldn't be getting PP1 minutes. You have Fox, Zibanejad, Panarin, Kreider. Those 4 should absolutely be on PP1. The argument comes to the 5th player used. It should be Kakko. It should not be both. (You can make a claim for Wheeler but I don't think he's needed there and would instead help PP2)

The second PP should have Miller/Gus instead of Trouba, mixed with Wheeler, Trocheck, Chytil, and 1 of Laf/Kakko, .

 

[Leonardo87]

That model is really, really stupid. Why publish that.

It's summer, things are slow, trying to get clicks. I think the model is beyond silly. But it gives us something to at least debate, lol.

 

[Rongomania]

They both shouldn't be getting PP1 minutes. You have Fox, Zibanejad, Panarin, Kreider. Those 4 should absolutely be on PP1. The argument comes to the 5th player used. It should be Kakko. It should not be both.

The two chosen ones need to be playing 20 mins per night. That's really what I'm most into, the further development of these two.

Let's just make it happen. At this point, after that display a few months ago .. no reason to say those two haven't 'earned' big minutes in most situations out of the gate. No one has. They were all stale ass after game two except shest and fox. Especially the 11 million dollar man.

I'll see it as a red flag if lavi doesn't touch pp1 drastically and include at least one of them.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Okay, Pitlick is a C+? It's a 1 year deal for $0.8m

Vesey is also a C+? What?

Also Miller as a B- is hysterical

Considering what Vesey has provided this team and his versatility its crazy he is not at least a B.

Dom should consider other factors. Method is flawed, but they gotta publish something to keep their subscribers reading.

 

[Machinehead]

The two chosen ones need to be playing 20 mins per night. That's really what I'm most into, the further development of these two.

Let's just make it happen. At this point, after that display a few months ago .. no reason to say those two haven't 'earned' big minutes in most situations out of the gate. No one has. They were all stale ass after game two except shest and fox. Especially the 11 million dollar man.

I'll see it as a red flag if lavi doesn't touch pp1 drastically and include at least one of them.

Since Panarin arrived (that seems like a fair cutoff, right?) our powerplay is 5th in the NHL at 23.4%.

You guys know how I hate to side with the coaches but the idea that they should drastically tamper with a top 5 powerplay in the league seems very, very silly to me.

 

[Rongomania]

Since Panarin arrived (that seems like a fair cutoff, right?) our powerplay is 5th in the NHL at 23.4%.

You guys know how I hate to side with the coaches but the idea that they should drastically tamper with a top 5 powerplay in the league seems very, very silly to me.

Where has it gotten us in the Po's tho?

I'm not doubting it's incredible track record, I do love this team very much outside of our top two picks.

 

[Callafan24]

Laf thread is closed, but question for the group...

Do we know if he's training in New York, or working specifically with a Skating Coach?

The thought of him staying in NY, working with coaches who will weaken his strengths (a la Brian Boyle and Barb Underhill), building strength in the gym, spending time around the rink etc... would give me hope that he really cares and wants to have a huge season.

The opposite - him living back home in QC and doing the same workouts he's done the last 3 years, make me want to puke.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Since Panarin arrived (that seems like a fair cutoff, right?) our powerplay is 5th in the NHL at 23.4%.

You guys know how I hate to side with the coaches but the idea that they should drastically tamper with a top 5 powerplay in the league seems very, very silly to me.

You'd be hard pressed to get me to disagree with this. There are 4 guys on the top unit who deserve to be there (I'd take Panarin off of it to start this season to light a fire under him or at least try to, but thats his spot once he earns it back.)

The issue with that 4th spot is that its an EASY slot to put either Kakko or Laf and has been. It's been mostly occupied by Strome or Trochek. Don't want Laf there? Fine, let Kakko play there and quite honestly, he SHOULD have been there already.

You don't get better at playing on the PP by not playing on the PP.

Where has it gotten us in the Po's tho?

I'm not doubting it's incredible track record, I do love this team very much outside of our top two picks.

Quite literally won us 2 rounds in 2022. The PP and Igor were the only reasons why they beat Carolina.

 

[Rongomania]

Laf thread is closed, but question for the group...

Do we know if he's training in New York, or working specifically with a Skating Coach?

The thought of him staying in NY, working with coaches who will weaken his strengths (a la Brian Boyle and Barb Underhill), building strength in the gym, spending time around the rink etc... would give me hope that he really cares and wants to have a huge season.

The opposite - him living back home in QC and doing the same workouts he's done the last 3 years, make me want to puke.

I heard something about hot dogs but I haven't seen a link confirming anything?

You'd be hard pressed to get me to disagree with this. There are 4 guys on the top unit who deserve to be there (I'd take Panarin off of it to start this season to light a fire under him or at least try to, but thats his spot once he earns it back.)

The issue with that 4th spot is that its an EASY slot to put either Kakko or Laf and has been. It's been mostly occupied by Strome or Trochek. Don't want Laf there? Fine, let Kakko play there and quite honestly, he SHOULD have been there already.

You don't get better at playing on the PP by not playing on the PP.



Quite literally won us 2 rounds in 2022. The PP and Igor were the only reasons why they beat Carolina.

Again, I acknowledge and have been here for all of its successes, but you can't deny Tampa and Jers figured it out. Shesty has been undeniably brilliant in the playoffs. Hank-level IMO.

 

[effen]

Since Panarin arrived (that seems like a fair cutoff, right?) our powerplay is 5th in the NHL at 23.4%.

You guys know how I hate to side with the coaches but the idea that they should drastically tamper with a top 5 powerplay in the league seems very, very silly to me.

I think a directive to make PP1 setup with more pace than a slug would accomplish a lot. Slowly wheeling around the perimeter like they do a lot is just fart sniffing.

 

[Machinehead]

Where has it gotten us in the Po's tho?

I'm not doubting it's incredible track record, I do love this team very much outside of our top two picks.

Every powerplay runs in streaks. Even the best powerplay is pretty much guaranteed to have a cold series. That's why it's imperative that we become a good even strength team.

Kakko is a good even strength player and I'd like to see us stick with him in a larger role whether he breaks in on PP1 or not.

As for Lafreniere, he is certainly also a hockey player for the New York Rangers.

You'd be hard pressed to get me to disagree with this. There are 4 guys on the top unit who deserve to be there (I'd take Panarin off of it to start this season to light a fire under him or at least try to, but thats his spot once he earns it back.)

The issue with that 4th spot is that its an EASY slot to put either Kakko or Laf and has been. It's been mostly occupied by Strome or Trochek. Don't want Laf there? Fine, let Kakko play there and quite honestly, he SHOULD have been there already.

You don't get better at playing on the PP by not playing on the PP.



Quite literally won us 2 rounds in 2022. The PP and Igor were the only reasons why they beat Carolina.

The issue with that, and others have touched on this, is that a LH bumper doesn't really make any sense in the PP setup we've had the most success with.

I'm not saying don't try it; 82 games is a long time. I'm just saying it has to work as well or better than a unit that has been elite for years.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I heard something about hot dogs but I haven't seen a link confirming anything?



Again, I acknowledge and have been here for all of its successes, but you can't deny Tampa and Jers figured it out. Shesty has been undeniably brilliant in the playoffs. Hank level IMO

I don't know that Tampa really figured it out.

The Rangers scored 3 goals in the last 3 games of that series, 2 of them were on the PP.

They did f*** all 5v5 in those games aside from a weird ass Lindgren goal in game 5 (which was given back not too long after because Rooney couldn't make a play that I could have made) and Strome whiffing on an empty net.

 

[Rongomania]

Every powerplay runs in streaks. Even the best powerplay is pretty much guaranteed to have a cold series. That's why it's imperative that we become a good even strength team.

Kakko is a good even strength player and I'd like to see us stick with him in a larger role whether he breaks in on PP1 or not.

As for Lafreniere, he is certainly also a hockey player for the New York Rangers.

The issue with that, and others have touched on this, is that a LH bumper doesn't really make any sense in the PP setup we've had the most success with.

I'm not saying don't try it; 82 games is a long time. I'm just saying it has to work as well or better than a unit that has been elite for years.

Man, you kill me with this shit. He's 21. I very much hope you are wrong.

When that PP goes cold, it is so deeply buried in the freezer and is absolutely glaring in a playoff series.

I don't know that Tampa really figured it out.

The Rangers scored 3 goals in the last 3 games of that series, 2 of them were on the PP.

They did f*** all 5v5 in those games aside from a weird ass Lindgren goal in game 5 (which was given back not too long after because Rooney couldn't make a play that I could have made) and Strome whiffing on an empty net.

Truth. Wasn't atrocious, but wasn't as amazing as it could've been and had been.

I just want to see lavi take more chances feeding the kids minutes and putting them in better positions to succeed (playing with Fox - a lot).

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Every powerplay runs in streaks. Even the best powerplay is pretty much guaranteed to have a cold series. That's why it's imperative that we become a good even strength team.

Kakko is a good even strength player and I'd like to see us stick with him in a larger role whether he breaks in on PP1 or not.

As for Lafreniere, he is certainly also a hockey player for the New York Rangers.

The issue with that, and others have touched on this, is that a LH bumper doesn't really make any sense in the PP setup we've had the most success with.

I'm not saying don't try it; 82 games is a long time. I'm just saying it has to work as well or better than a unit that has been elite for years.

The bumper doesn't have to be LH. It's been plenty successful with Zibanejad there.

Plus guys move around the ice and line up in different spots to the point where it becomes inter changeable. At least thats how its been when its really humming.