Salary Cap: Roster-building thread Part XXXIV | Can the return of Melichar be far behind?

[plaidchuck]

Therrien would have run a vet off? The guy who played Oulett constantly or whatever his name is?

 

[Riptide]

And yet here we are, with him getting 10 shifts with the finest this team has to offer against Dallas. I find it hard to understand that you expect him to produce, to work his way into the top 6, when the current top 6 is producing the same with more opportunities. Their resumes shouldn't have anything to do with being held accountable for their current play. The lines right now aren't producing. They need changed. Why not put the guy that showed "many flashes of potential" up there when the current top 6 is coasting on glories past?

I don't really think he should be in the top 6... but he should be on the 3rd line with some #2PP time.

 

[sf expat71]

I don't really think he should be in the top 6... but he should be on the 3rd line with some #2PP time.

Well, we have a dearth of productive top 6 players right now, maybe Bennett does something, maybe he doesn't, but he can't be worse than Kunitz. I definitely agree that he shouldn't be playing on the 4th line though, if the rumors are true that the team is trying to move him, get 3rd line value out of him at the very least. All I'm saying is that there needs to be more line juggling to try and get players going, because they aren't going right now, at all.

 

[KIRK]

Worth mentioning that OS told aftonblade he didn't want to stay thinking first line minutes on a championship club in Sweden would be better for him than bottom six in the nhl.

Beyond that, need non-vets to make room for. Only guy that clears that bar is Pouliot, who Johnston has been lobbying for all year according to DK and the trib bozos.

Listening to Dan Kingerski (formerly of either TSN or CBC) while I watch the baby pens.

Saying some interesting stuff. Says Pouliot's spot in the lineup is "guaranteed" as soon as the cap permits. Also says Pens tried to trade Bennett "for anything at the deadline and heard crickets."

From what I'm reading, it sounds like that guy didn't get the memo about towing the company line.

As for OS, you're right. That was the reason. My point-- now and I actually said it at the time too-- is that he should've gotten the 10 games anyway to see if you had another Staal situation, where what his play dictated diverged from those bottom six intentions. I said it then: Watching him all preseason, I saw a guy who, if given the chance (I know, ha ha), would justify a place on Malkin's LW before too long. I thought (a) he was that good and (b) our roster was that bad.

Therrien would have run a vet off? The guy who played Oulett constantly or whatever his name is?

Ouellet was a lot of things. When Therrien miscast him as a top six forward around the beginning of 2007, he was still 24 years old with about 90 games played. That's hardly a vet.

Oh, by the way . . . LeClair, Recchi, even a 27 year old Dominic Moore . . . remind me how their Penguins careers ended and why. Here's a hint: With Therrien, to make way for younger talent.

 

[SEALBound]

From what I'm reading, it sounds like that guy didn't get the memo about towing the company line.

As for OS, you're right. That was the reason. My point-- now and I actually said it at the time too-- is that he should've gotten the 10 games anyway to see if you had another Staal situation, where what his play dictated diverged from those bottom six intentions. I said it then: Watching him all preseason, I saw a guy who, if given the chance (I know, ha ha), would justify a place on Malkin's LW before too long. I thought (a) he was that good and (b) our roster was that bad.



Ouellet was a lot of things. When Therrien miscast him as a top six forward around the beginning of 2007, he was still 24 years old with about 90 games played. That's hardly a vet.

Oh, by the way . . . LeClair, Recchi, even a 27 year old Dominic Moore . . . remind me how their Penguins careers ended and why. Here's a hint: With Therrien, to make way for younger talent.

IIRC, LeClair just went to absolute ****. Recchi got pushed out in favor of Christensen, Armstrong, and Kennedy. He was waived though...some time in late 07 early 08. Well before the addition of Hossa and Duper. The lines were something like:

Malone-Sid-Army
Christensen-Malkin-Sykora
Roberts/Ruutu-Staal-Kennedy
Roberts/Ruutu-Hall-BGL

I believe Atlanta claimed him on re-entry waivers. So yes, one could argue he was pushed out by younger talent however there was plenty of older talent on the roster in Roberts and BGL. Looking at that roster, the was one large collection of young, hungry kids. Elite talent in Sid, Malkin, and then relative 3C elite talent Staal. Sykora had enough talent to mesh with Geno. Ruutu was a Cooke/Downie type. Roberts was the venerable vet. Hall was a very decent 4C. BGL was there because back then he was still relevant and could actually play a shift. Talbot was also in the mix as well...who would have been early 20's. So more to add to the argument against Reechi. Plus, IIRC, there was also a lot of bad tension between Reechi and the young guns that clearly ran the team. The choice to waive him was a lot easier.

We traded Moore for a 2nd or 3rd in 07...he was the 4C...Talbot was in there...can't quite remember.

Good examples of the previous team pushing out vets to make way for youth. Two points to add:

1. At that time, however, we had the capable youth to do it. Armstrong, Christensen, Talbot, heck even Kennedy...we don't have those players in WBS right now. As expendable as ALL of them turned out to be, they are much better players than Ebbett, Rust, Wilson...

If we had Christensens and certainly Armstrongs to bring up...maybe we would.

2. The example to look at really is LeClair. LeClair was a vet whose game went to absolute ****. I remember games were it was painful to watch him be such a shell of his former self. I remember watching him and Reechi together for the Flyers and they were reeeeally good. With that, when his game went to such depths he was given the boot.

Now a days, we see something very similar in Adams and starting to get there in Kunitz (however Kunitz could still be serviceable on the 3rd line). We got rid of older players while they still had value and we got a return out of them. Now a days, we ride them into the ground until they are worthless. With that, we don't have the young players to backfill. Rust, Ebbett, and Wilson aren't going to be able to.

Just another realization of just how bad Shero and Bylsma screwed up this organization.

 

[JTG]

I'd kill for a Roberts-Staal 3rd line right now.

 

[Zen Arcade]

There was no return for LeClair, they put him on unconditional waivers and mutually agreed to terminate his contract. That wouldn't happen now, not with the cap implications.

 

[66-30-33]

I'd kill for a Roberts-Staal 3rd line right now.

I'd kill to have Roberts talk to us and destroy us in the lockerroom between periods. If Roberts can't motivate you, then nothing can.Ever.

 

[eXile59]

I'd kill to have Roberts talk to us and destroy us in the lockerroom between periods. If Roberts can't motivate you, then nothing can.Ever.

We definitely need someone like a Guerin or Roberts. I actually think despite all his faults Dupuis helped as well. The coach isn't saying anything that's for sure.

 

[IcedCapp]

I'd kill for a Roberts-Staal 3rd line right now.

i'd kill to have Roberts on the 2nd line at this point

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'd kill to have Roberts talk to us and destroy us in the lockerroom between periods. If Roberts can't motivate you, then nothing can.Ever.

Half our roster is made up of bizarro Gary Robertses.

By design.

 

[DearDiary]

This thread has really slowed down over the past week. There used to be 10 pages a day now there's 1-2 pages, sometimes half a page

 

[SEALBound]

This thread has really slowed down over the past week. There used to be 10 pages a day now there's 1-2 pages, sometimes half a page

It's pretty much the maximum amount before we can make roster changes so...kinda like how the trade and free agent talk forum really slows down.

Besides, we keep saying the same thing over and over and over. Dump Kunitz, Scuderi, Adams; bring in youth with size, skill, and speed.

 

[DearDiary]

It's pretty much the maximum amount before we can make roster changes so...kinda like how the trade and free agent talk forum really slows down.

Besides, we keep saying the same thing over and over and over. Dump Kunitz, Scuderi, Adams; bring in youth with size, skill, and speed.

That's never going to happen though. Even if the Pens started now, it would take 4-5 years through the draft. They can't trade away veteran players for picks either because they would get worse right now.

The Pens management has ruined the franchise, they're stuck between getting younger wasting Crosby+Malkin's peak or keeping veterans while being a simple playoff team that's declining. There really isn't any fix in sight that's possible.

 

[XanderCrews34]

That's never going to happen though. Even if the Pens started now, it would take 4-5 years through the draft. They can't trade away veteran players for picks either because they would get worse right now.

The Pens management has ruined the franchise, they're stuck between getting younger wasting Crosby+Malkin's peak or keeping veterans while being a simple playoff team that's declining. There really isn't any fix in sight that's possible.

Not necessarily. They've overhauled something like 40% of the team that lost to NYR. Added Horny, Perron, Comeau, Winnik - it's not out of the question that they can continue the transition.

They probably can't get a bunch of 22 year old studs in the short term, but they can certainly get bigger, younger, and better than Scuderi, Kunitz, and Dupuis.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Not necessarily. They've overhauled something like 40% of the team that lost to NYR. Added Horny, Perron, Comeau, Winnik - it's not out of the question that they can continue the transition.

They probably can't get a bunch of 22 year old studs in the short term, but they can certainly get bigger, younger, and better than Scuderi, Kunitz, and Dupuis.

At this point, I would just like a Pouliot, Lovejoy pairing again this season and to see Beau with Crosby and Perron.

Perron, Crosby, Bennett.

With the good you get the bad, so much good has been done with JR's moves, but the Despres trade wasn't all that good and it seems like the coaching decision is questionable as **** right now but we'll really have to see how it does in the playoffs.

 

[plaidchuck]

Honestly when it came to the finals therrien didn't have a clue either. His big ace in the hole was dressing Roberts for game four or something. I'm glad the stars aligned in 2009 but yeah this team hasn't had a real coach since... bowman.

 

[Saints11]

Honestly when it came to the finals therrien didn't have a clue either. His big ace in the hole was dressing Roberts for game four or something. I'm glad the stars aligned in 2009 but yeah this team hasn't had a real coach since... bowman.

Yeah and Bowman was almost part time, constantly returning home to Buffalo. That didn't matter, because they didn't much listen to him anyway. Which is why he exited so quickly.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

At this point, I would just like a Pouliot, Lovejoy pairing again this season and to see Beau with Crosby and Perron.

Perron, Crosby, Bennett.

With the good you get the bad, so much good has been done with JR's moves, but the Despres trade wasn't all that good and it seems like the coaching decision is questionable as **** right now but we'll really have to see how it does in the playoffs.

Dude, much like how you used to constantly go to bat for Bylsma, you will finally realize that BB just isn't a very good player who will pan out into a scoring top 6 guy like we hoped. Obviously we all see and know he sucks as a bottom 6 guys as well. He will most likely be out of the league in 3 years.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Pens need more youth in their lineup, they should offer Lovejoy to the Ducks for one of their young D, maybe Despres.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

So now we're retroactively dissing Therrien to make ourselves feel better about the coaches? Therrien would be a godsend right now, and I don't even think he's an amazing coach or anything.

 

[gdsmack267]

Pens need more youth in their lineup, they should offer Lovejoy to the Ducks for one of their young D, maybe Despres.

This could work out...

 

[plaidchuck]

So now we're retroactively dissing Therrien to make ourselves feel better about the coaches? Therrien would be a godsend right now, and I don't even think he's an amazing coach or anything.

Everyone but whoever is the current coach is a godsend right now. Besides, I wasn't trying to make anyone feel better about Johnston, just pointing out they haven't had a coach who could maximize the team's assets for a while now.

 

[66-30-33]

Not next season but the season after we should roll this.

X-Crosby-Hornqvist
Perron-Malkin-Kovalchuk

X can be a player that can create on his own we trade for.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Dude, much like how you used to constantly go to bat for Bylsma, you will finally realize that BB just isn't a very good player who will pan out into a scoring top 6 guy like we hoped. Obviously we all see and know he sucks as a bottom 6 guys as well. He will most likely be out of the league in 3 years.

Dude, I never went to bat for Bylsma.

I called out his treatment of players a lot to deaf ears and blind eyes.

**** you for lumping me into the Bylsma sympathizers. That's not cool at all.

And no, I think Beau actually playing is a good thing regardless of his actual play at this point, the biggest problem for Beau has been being healthy and playing, sure he's been dicked around so far, but give him an off season where he's not recovering from an injury or playing just 23-29 games or whatever and he'll have more work from the previous year to watch and improve on.

But hey, you're entitled to your opinion on BB. But don't you dare assume I am a Bylsma supporter, never was, never will be. Stuff it.