Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXII

[TheTakedown]

A post you weren't even involved in. Keepin' tabs! You're an FBI agent, I assume?

Fair enough...

I'd say Skjei has value but not as high as it could be. The team is competitive with him and i doubt he'd warrant a return of which many would approve.

DeAngelo could garner something, not anything significant.

Pionk and Staal have virtually no value at all right now.

Shattenkirk has sucked for over a year but I think you could get what MZA returned...

Claesson, maybe a 5th, if that...

Smith actually has negative value.

Prospects are not good trading chips, especially D-men, unless their putting up points, whether in the NHL, AHL or CHL. Hajek and Lindgren might fetch a top-60 pick apiece, nothing more.

Kreider's value is at a high, Zibanejad shouldn't be considered for a trade. Namestnikov and Vesey could return a bit...

They don't have any hot commodities and the cupboard isn't re-stocked at ANY position.[/QUOTE
I think it's more like... Jeff went to Costco and bought a bunch of wonde in bulk. It's a matter of time to see how well they age and how useful they will be in the future

 

[DanielBrassard]

If he is willing I'd sign Brickley to a one way deal, even if he misses the NHL roster cut off, he is waived, if he passes through he is good for the AHL and as a NHL call-up.

Strome I have no idea why they would not just keep him unless a trade came up. Once his contract ends next off-season, just don't qualify him but offer him something lesser and short term. If he signs it, okay, if not let him walk as a UFA.

Vesey, Fast, are also going to be a UFAs next off-season, Not sure where that is going yet I'm not envisioning extensions all around. Parts of other deals before their contracts run out perhaps, some swap similar to that of Spooner/Strome maybe?

I don't think Andersson has the significant value to use to move up. Again maybe as part of some deal but as the prime piece or something that really moves the needle in a package, I'm not seeing it.

I kind of think the top 9 picks are just going to be off the table even if the Rangers included their own to move up. Those teams are likely to be seeing themselves as re-builders, or be fortunate to be picking there (fall in their lap sort of thing) , so I don't think any price for them is going to make sense.

Kreider plus something like the Jets 1st if Turcotte, Newhook, etc (whoever they like) are there past 9, is something I could see as plausible, should say Buffalo, Florida, Colorado have that pick. If the Rangers also need to take back a cap hit for a year or two to complete the deal, I'd go that route.

I would say that Vesey/Namestnikov/Strome/Fast should all be shopped at the draft and if possible moved. I don't see any of them being here long term so if you can clear cap space and get back a decent pick do it. Or, if the Rangers aren't going after or are unable to sign a notable UFA trade keep em

 

[GAGLine]

At what cost though?

Because in Trouba’s case, you’re talking about a trade and not a free agent.

So depending on the approach and opinion, say like the difference Bobbop and I have, there could be a pretty decent range there.

And that’s where it gets interesting.

I've stated that I think Skjei for Trouba straight up is a fair trade. They are the same age. Most would say that Trouba is the better player, and being a righty, more in demand, but he is also without a contract and 1 year from being a UFA, while Skjei has 5 years left at a reasonable rate. We have prospect depth on the left side and if we can somehow snag Byram in the draft, we'll be even stronger.

We need a RH dman with size, someone who can play big minutes and shut down the other teams' best players. Can Trouba be that? I think so. If there are any better options out there, I'd love to hear them.

 

[Edge]

and that's where the difference lie.

I think we should be taking the next step forward. I think the team/organization would want to be competing for a playoff spot next year. Maybe, I'm being overly optimistic.. but with a few decent moves, this team is winning games. I'd see us in the same light as Carolina. Not cup contenders but taking the next step

There could be more than 2 stages ( rebuild or win-now )

We're a big market team, imo graduating from a rebuild, with cap space. If he signs here, is a different story.

Adding front end talent, whether it be our own or a FA, and making a move or two for defense.. we can be competing. Is it that far fetched?

Seriously, I get the concept. I honestly and sincerely do not believe we are there yet. It's partly a timing issue for me. And it's also a talent issue at present time.

I think it's one thing to type out a to do list for this team and another thing to actually check those items off. A move or two for defense, adding front end talent, figuring out what we have in goal.

On paper those seem like incredibly simple concepts, but there's a lot that goes into each of them --- time, resources, etc.

I think we also have different views on how we define competing. I don't want to be just competing. If we wanted that we could've just kept plugging the holes we saw emerging a year or two ago.

Personally, I want to be contending. I want a legit, long-term contender. And I just don't see that with what your proposing and the timeline in which you are proposing it take place --- for every single reason I've repeated multiple times within the last week alone.

 

[Edge]

If there are any better options out there, I'd love to hear them.

Oof, how I feel that line and the approaches it leads to has bit this franchise in the ass so many times over the years.

As for Skjei being a staight up trade. Sorry, I just don't see it. If Trouba is as good and as important as his supporters believe him to be, the cost isn't Brady Skjei.

 

[duhmetreE]

I would say that Vesey/Namestnikov/Strome/Fast should all be shopped at the draft and if possible moved. I don't see any of them being here long term so if you can clear cap space and get back a decent pick do it. Or, if the Rangers aren't going after or are unable to sign a notable UFA trade keep em

I disagree.

A decision will have to be made on who will be here moving forward though. Who will have the most value/cap hit? I see Strome as the most likely to stay. Fast will most likely be the cheapest. Depending on what Names and Vesey will cost, a decision will have to be made. Names, imo, brings more to the table.

 

[Kovalev27]

And to be fair, Howden is a year older than Andersson

No he’s not he’s only 6 months older. That’s it. They’re both 20 right now. Lias is actually on the older side of his draft year. He’ll be 21 when next season starts. He’s got a long way to go to even get to where Howden is today.

 

[kovazub94]

So we will be rebuilding for the duration of the contract?

When is the rebuild over? When will we be moving on to the next step? I'm not talking about being considered cup contenders, but the road before that.

You're seeing it as black and white. I see it more nuanced than just 'rebuild' or 'cup contention/win-now'

Where did I say that we will be rebuilding for the duration of the contract?

What I said in short is that having invested $11m/year in an asset would likely force the team to make decisions they wouldn't make otherwise.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I've stated that I think Skjei for Trouba straight up is a fair trade. They are the same age. Most would say that Trouba is the better player, and being a righty, more in demand, but he is also without a contract and 1 year from being a UFA, while Skjei has 5 years left at a reasonable rate. We have prospect depth on the left side and if we can somehow snag Byram in the draft, we'll be even stronger.

We need a RH dman with size, someone who can play big minutes and shut down the other teams' best players. Can Trouba be that? I think so. If there are any better options out there, I'd love to hear them.

None that I can think of that might be remotely available. Can't help but wonder though where Skjei's value is, does he have enough to be traded 1-for-1 for a better player who plays at a position with more scarcity?

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

It's a year and a month since "the letter". We have at least another season of developing players and adding assets.

The only situation I can see that potentially changing is if they win the lottery

 

[Edge]

What I said in short is that having invested $11m/year in an asset would likely force the team to make decisions they wouldn't make otherwise.

I truly believe this is a major consideration that cannot be overlooked.

I just don't think we can argue about that this is a guy who comes along via free agency once a decade, and then believe that nothing change as a result.

I do not see how those two concepts co-exist harmoniously.

 

[NYR Viper]

Ryan Strome is 25 years old. There is nothing that says he is a finished product. The guy has been in the NHL for 6 years but it would appear he has found a nice niche in NY. He's a RFA at the end of his deal and he is versatile in that he can play wing or center. Something that will be very helpful to Quinn and the Rangers as they develop some of their younger forwards and determine where their future lies in the NHL. Moving Strome would not make sense.

Namestnikov, Fast, Vesey all make sense.

 

[Off Sides]

I would say that Vesey/Namestnikov/Strome/Fast should all be shopped at the draft and if possible moved. I don't see any of them being here long term so if you can clear cap space and get back a decent pick do it. Or, if the Rangers aren't going after or are unable to sign a notable UFA trade keep em

Agree, yet I don't see any big value there for teams to move good picks for them.

Vesey is probably the most valuable out of that group and I'm not sure I see any team giving up much for him as they probably have a Vesey of their own.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Player valuations on this site got stuck in 2012 somehow.

A good but not great player cost 7M per in 2019.

@RangerBoy would make a great college sports fan, since those players don’t even get paid

 

[Rangers in 7]

Kreider plus something like the Jets 1st if Turcotte, Newhook, etc (whoever they like) are there past 9, is something I could see as plausible, should say Buffalo, Florida, Colorado have that pick. If the Rangers also need to take back a cap hit for a year or two to complete the deal, I'd go that route.

colorado's own first is what im targeting in a trade...they are going to get a pick no worse then top 5....their pick in the early teens is expendable in my opinion

 

[Lundy HOF]

Oof, how I feel that line and the approaches it leads to has bit this franchise in the ass so many times over the years.

As for Skjei being a staight up trade. Sorry, I just don't see it. If Trouba is as good and as important as his supporters believe him to be, the cost isn't Brady Skjei.

Given his inconsistency with games played and his contract demands as well as the team’s probable desire to find a player they can plug and play to continue to compete, I’m not sure it’s that far fetched value wise.

To be clear, Trouba is the better player and in a vacuum I agree with you but the question is how much the other factors impact his trade value. I don’t see the Jets wanting a prospect + 1st.

 

[duhmetreE]

Seriously, I get the concept. I honestly and sincerely do not believe we are there yet. It's partly a timing issue for me. And it's also a talent issue at present time.

I think it's one thing to type out a to do list for this team and another thing to actually check those items off. A move or two for defense, adding front end talent, figuring out what we have in goal.

On paper those seem like incredibly simple concepts, but there's a lot that goes into each of them --- time, resources, etc.

I think we also have different views on how we define competing. I don't want to be just competing. If we wanted that we could've just kept plugging the holes we saw emerging a year or two ago.

Personally, I want to be contending. I want a legit, long-term contender. And I just don't see that with what your proposing and the timeline in which you are proposing it take place --- for every single reason I've repeated multiple times within the last week alone.

I agree, but how do you get to cup contending? when's the transition? You see the window open in 2-3ish years, as do I.

You have to grow at some point. If we're in an elongated 'rebuild' state, we become EDM, struggling even to compete.

I see it as, Rebuild > grow into competing > graduate to contending. After this draft, I believe we should have 'enough depth' to move forward.

Next season is my 'grow into competing'. Speculating it might last a season or two or three.... Where we hope things progress into contending.

 

[TheTakedown]

Football is completely different because teams draft for need rather than BPA because the players all come in and play immediately and don’t have long careers

Everyone forgets that the NFL draft is mostly guys who have completed college and are already young men at 22.

NHL draft is taking barely-adults at 18

 

[MetalJaws]

I would sell Names, Fast and Pionk to Edm or Buffalo for Picks or Prospects in need ASAP. Both those teams need middle guys and puck moving D men. I'd get whatever I can. I'm also one to believe IF we get a top 5ish pick (Hughes, Kakko, Podkolzin, Byram, Dach, Cozens) we go after Panarin 100% and resign Kreider while also bringing over Kravtsov. Let them gel, let them grow.

Forwards
Panarin, Zib, Kreider, 2019 top 5 pick, Buch, LA, Chytil, Strome, Vesey, Kravtsov, Boo, Howden, Lemieux I like that A lot.

 

[Edge]

Given his inconsistency with games played and his contract demands as well as the team’s probably desire to find a player they can plug and play to continue to compete, I’m not sure it’s that far fetched value wise.

To be clear, Trouba is the better player and in a vacuum I agree with you but the question is how much the other factors impact his trade value. I don’t see the Jets wanting a prospect + 1st.

I can't help but feel that we kind of play that both ways.

He's got great value and potential and the injuries and other aspects aren't a concern, but that's only worth Brady Skjei two years removed from his best performance.

If he's as good as some believe him to be, and the roles were revered, would we trade him for Brady Skjei?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Oof, how I feel that line and the approaches it leads to has bit this franchise in the ass so many times over the years.

As for Skjei being a staight up trade. Sorry, I just don't see it. If Trouba is as good and as important as his supporters believe him to be, the cost isn't Brady Skjei.

Consider Trouba wanting out and Skjei being locked in at a nice rate for several years.

Generally, I’d agree that Skjei for Trouba is unrealistic, but in this scenario, I could see it. Skjei has a chance to look really good in a proper setting, too, IMO.

 

[duhmetreE]

Where did I say that we will be rebuilding for the duration of the contract?

What I said in short is that having invested $11m/year in an asset would likely force the team to make decisions they wouldn't make otherwise.

you answered the one rhetorical question and didn't answer the others.

When is the rebuild over? When do we start to move forward?

and yes, I believe the team will want to compete next year... eventually becoming cup contenders.

 

[Rangers in 7]

No he’s not he’s only 6 months older. That’s it. They’re both 20 right now. Lias is actually on the older side of his draft year. He’ll be 21 when next season starts. He’s got a long way to go to even get to where Howden is today.

i think howden is a great future piece in the rebuild but come on, he didnt have a point for like 25 games....not to mention he was being put out there with much better talent then lias was....lets wait till lias gets consistent minutes with actual nhl quality players

 

[Tob]

These ungrateful batch of college FAs passing over us. After all we've done for them.

 

[Edge]

I agree, but how do you get to cup contending? when's the transition? You see the window open in 2-3ish years, as do I.

You have to grow at some point. If we're in an elongated 'rebuild' state, we become EDM, struggling even to compete.

I see it as, Rebuild > grow into competing > graduate to contending. After this draft, I believe we should have 'enough depth' to move forward.

Next season is my 'grow into competing'. Speculating it might last a season or two or three.... Where we hope things progress into contending.

I think you start by giving it time. You see what you have, you don't force what you have, you continue to acquire assets and depth, you give those guys time to develop and then you see what your team looks like and fill in the gaps.

I do not believe we quite have enough depth to move forward after this draft.

I think we're close to potentially having the depth, if it pans out, which is precisely why we need to wait and see. But at this point, we still don't know what it is we have or don't have.

As for the elongated rebuild: We are not Edmonton.

We're not the same market. We don't face the same challenges. We don't have the same front office. We don't have the same scouting staff.

We gotta stop using that example. It's a bad example. It's always been a bad example.