Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLII Time for Curtis Lazar?

[egelband]

Sarah Pallin has confirmed that it is possible to see Moscow from Alaska. Supposedly 40,000 people have died taking her advice trying to hike to the red square from Joneau.

Well that’s right *nowwwww*. According to *my* calculations, it’ll take @Inferno approximately 12 weeks to get to the Pacific coast at which point the land bridge will be just emerging. He might need to equip his car with mud flaps and a little plow. But I think they’ll make it in time for next season.

 

[ETTER DE]

Sarah Pallin has confirmed that it is possible to see Moscow from Alaska. Supposedly 40,000 people have died taking her advice trying to hike to the red square from Joneau.

Hire her as a scout now!

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

If Gorton’s team has done their job well, the Rangers defense SHOULD be inexpensive for a while. Fox, Lindgren, Hajek, Rykov, Reunanen, Lundqvist, Miller, Robertson, Jones. That’s assuming someone else doesn’t push up into that group but that’s 9 legitimate NHLers or prospects who have a higher potential. What this does is allow the team to allocate cap elsewhere for the next 3-5 years potentially.

And before anyone brings up paying Fox right off his ELC, I’d argue that while it’s a possibility, if the team didn’t have the room, he could also be bridged. With RFA’s there’s options.

Yep. Same with Kakko.

Meanwhile, among the forwards prospects, there's Kravtsov, Barron, Henriksson, Pajuniemi (Andersson?) and Richards/Khodorenko/Rueschhoff, out of which you OUGHT to be able to develop at least one top 6 forward, and hopefully another 1-2 bottom 6 guys. And there's always the opportunity for more Keane for Gauthier type trades.

Not necessarily advocating for an Eichel acquisition, but it's doable, and at least worth exploring... depending on the cost.

 

[RGY]

I think the Blues are the outlier. They won because they had a goalie that was on fire and built a system around tha.. The Pittsburgh/Chicago model has been the dominant one this decade. Washington was a lot closer to that model too.

I dont know i think Washington is very much in between. I also think Washington had great depth in their forward group. They had a great 2 lines and then good depth in the 3rd and 4th lines.

And I think this team needs to aim to be more like STL and WAS than CHI and PIT. We dont have the generational talent. Heck we couldve not signed Panarin and still just done better than Detroit and Ottawa and not end up with Lafreniere and still be on the elusive search of a “generational” talent. I’d do it all over again, signing a premium talent like Panarin and then building behind him and Zibanejad. I prefer the young talented depth on cheaper ELCs. I think you shorten your window by going all in and purging a multitude of pieces for one player...and if it doesnt work, if you dont win, then you set the franchise back into hell again.

Thats just me.

Edit:

If the deal were Chytil, Buchnevich/Strome, Jones/Robertson, 1st, 2nd then I’d be more interested.

But I am not giving them the house for one player. Not every team can take on that cap hit. Not every team has the assets the Rangers do. You give them (2) forwards in the NHL. One is 22 years old who has a top 6 forward ceiling. The other has shown they can play in the top 6. A potential Top 4 defenseman. A 1st rounder. And a 2nd rounder. Maybe make a condition where the 2nd becomes a 1st if the Rangers make a SCF appearance in the next 2 years. Youre essentially then giving them (3) 1st round picks + an NHL forward in their prime + a young defenseman who could end up looking like they shouldve been a 1st rounder. Thats more than what an Offer Sheet would hypothetically return.

 

[Roo Returns]

I thought about this hard yesterday. What would a realistic trade for Eichel look like? NOT one I'd do but what to expect. Firstly, Trouba is off the table. Buffalo wouldn't want that cap hit and length. Kakko and Igor off the table as well. I would not include Chytil. I would insist K. Miller is kept out of this.

With all that said: Both firsts this year, another first either in 2021 or 2022, Georgiev, Kravstov, either DeAngelo or Nils Lundkvist, and Morgan Barron.

That's the type of presents/futures I think Buffalo would want for their franchise player. Too much? Probably a little but remember Eichel isn't even in his prime yet an nearly an 80 point player.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Yep. That’s probably where they’d start. Maybe even more. Rangers could whittle it down from there and Eichel would probably try to exert some pressure. But one of Igor, Fox, Kakko are safe bets to be going the other way.

I don't think so.

Even when players of this magnitude get moved, the team moving him almost NEVER gets another teams crown jewels that are roster players.

 

[Irishguy42]

With all that said: Both firsts this year, another first either in 2021 or 2022, Georgiev, Kravstov, either DeAngelo or Nils Lundkvist, and Morgan Barron.

If Gorton offers that package, he gets fired tbh

 

[Savant]

I thought about this hard yesterday. What would a realistic trade for Eichel look like? NOT one I'd do but what to expect. Firstly, Trouba is off the table. Buffalo wouldn't want that cap hit and length. Kakko and Igor off the table as well. I would not include Chytil. I would insist K. Miller is kept out of this.

With all that said: Both firsts this year, another first either in 2021 or 2022, Georgiev, Kravstov, either DeAngelo or Nils Lundkvist, and Morgan Barron.

That's the type of presents/futures I think Buffalo would want for their franchise player. Too much? Probably a little but remember Eichel isn't even in his prime yet an nearly an 80 point player.

I completely disagree that Buffalo would have a problem with the Trouba contract. They can’t get talent there and have the worst RD group in the league. Trouba gives them a long term Dahlin partner who is locked it. That pairing gives them something to build around. Trouba plays better with good partners and tho have a guy there under contract for 7 years - that’s a major incentive for them. Trouba is a great addition for that team, and the a Rangers need him in that deal for cap purposes. It’s a match.

 

[Roo Returns]

If Gorton offers that package, he gets fired tbh

You have to remember, you get six years of Eichel who hasn't even reached his prime yet. Do we as fans do it? No of course not. Gorton and JD wouldn't. But Buffalo is going to ask for this or a similar deal for their golden goose even if eventually you replace the RHD with Raunenan who is a good prospect.

Adding almost-peak Eichel to the Rangers with little roster turnover instantly puts them in the top 5-6 in the ECF. They'd be a Lindy Ruff replacement and two players away (a partner for Trouba and a 2nd/3rd line 20G-20A grinder which the franchise has always had problems finding) from being up there with Boston/Tampa/Pittsburgh/Washington. This isn't adding Yandle with 1.25 years left or a rental. This is a 23-year-old Eichel at a steady pay check with an upward trajectory and until 2026.

 

[Roo Returns]

I completely disagree that Buffalo would have a problem with the Trouba contract. They can’t get talent there and have the worst RD group in the league. Trouba gives them a long term Dahlin partner who is locked it. That pairing gives them something to build around. Trouba plays better with good partners and tho have a guy there under contract for 7 years - that’s a major incentive for them. Trouba is a great addition for that team, and the a Rangers need him in that deal for cap purposes. It’s a match.

I think if they wanted him it would not be the entree of the trade. They would still ask for the moon. Like including Trouba doesn't automatically mean it's Trouba and Georgiev and the Carolina first will land Eichel. Not even close.

Also Trouba wasn't that bad for the Rangers. He wasn't great but wasn't terrible. Subtracting him and the Rangers D losses a lot of physicality and matchup ability.

 

[Savant]

I think if they wanted him it would not be the entree of the trade. They would still ask for the moon. Like including Trouba doesn't automatically mean it's Trouba and Georgiev and the Carolina first will land Eichel. Not even close.

Also Trouba wasn't that bad for the Rangers. He wasn't great but wasn't terrible. Subtracting him and the Rangers D losses a lot of physicality and matchup ability.

Trouba was not bad for the Rangers. I’m not anti Trouba, I’m just doing basic math. It’s about the cap hit.

Rangers have the assets to make a deal work, but Trouba has to be in to hit Eichel cap number without hurting the roster depth. Not sure what that magic combination is but the Rangers can hit it.
My only untouchables are 10, 23, 31 & 93 and the Rangers still have enough to make a deal work. But they need to keep an eye on the math too. That’s why Trouba is in. If there is no deal I am more than happy if he stays, but for Eichel, you kind of have to do it.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Eichel trade wouldn't really make sense. Zibanejad is only 3.5 years older. Eichel's teams never even came close to the playoffs. We already traded for similar type in Nash and it was a disappointment.

 

[aufheben]

I don't think so.

Even when players of this magnitude get moved, the team moving him almost NEVER gets another teams crown jewels that are roster players.

How often does an Eichel get traded though? He’s still so young and already so good, maybe some team offers a Lindros package in a bidding war.

 

[Savant]

Eichel trade wouldn't really make sense. Zibanejad is only 3.5 years older. Eichel's teams never even came close to the playoffs. We already traded for similar type in Nash and it was a disappointment.

- What does Zibanejad age have to do with it?
- Look at the teams Eichel have been on
- Nash went to a Cup final and multiple ECF as a Ranger. I’d say it worked out pretty well.
- How is Eichel similar to Nash? At all
- Why doesn’t deal make sense?

 

[Do you want ants]

How many teams have 2 1st lines? Or is it they have an elite player on each of the 2 first lines? With complimentary pieces.

Show me the teams with 2 1st lines that have elite players, or even star players at all 6 spots. It does not exist. Didnt exist on the Blues cup winning team last year.

You know what the Blues did have? Fantastic depth. Guys they developed, whether they drafted them or made shrewd moves to acquire them early in their careers. Sanford and Sundqvist. Thomas. Barbashev. Blais. Thats what got them to where they wanted to be.

The Rangers are not at that point where it is ok to purge assets for the piece they hope puts them over the top. Heck I dont know if theyll need to get to the extreme of acquiring someone of Eichel’s caliber when they are indeed ready.

And if Howden is our best option in 2 years to handle the important depth minutes then this organization failed at drafting/developing/identifying targets...unless of course he figures out how to be a more complete player in that he realizes a role in this league and becomes a specialist at it a la Dom Moore.

Ok. Then you spread them out on different lines and give off that appearance of depth you want....but this notion you have to have a solid 4th line to win cups is nonsense. The bottom 6 just needs to not get shelled during their limited time.

Would you rather watch howden (insert any marginal 4th line/bottom 6er) play 15+ to achieve the more balanced ice time approach or our best players play an extra 2-3 mins a night?

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Eichel trade wouldn't really make sense. Zibanejad is only 3.5 years older. Eichel's teams never even came close to the playoffs. We already traded for similar type in Nash and it was a disappointment.

What? Eichel is already better than Nash ever was, he’s only 23 and not in his late 20s like Nash was , and the Sabres are a failure franchise it’s not his fault he’s literally their only good player .

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

How often does an Eichel get traded though? He’s still so young and already so good, maybe some team offers a Lindros package in a bidding war.

The closest semi recent example I can think of is Seguin (who was dealt at 21) and Peverly for 3 prospects ( I don't remember where they were ranked, but I believe none of them were top 5 prospects) and a 28 year old Loui Eriksson (who was still highly regarded.)

No one is offering a Lindros package. A bidding war would 100% happen, but I don't see it getting that out of hand for several reasons.

1. A team has to be able to fit him in under the cap
2. A team has to be able to put together a competitive package
3. If both those criteria are met, a team is going to have to be pretty close to a contender if not a contender already. He doesn't have no trade protection, but I can't see him being all that thrilled with going to a place where winning is still a ways away (Detroit, Ottawa, NJ, etc.) I know that Buffalo can just tell him to get bent, but the team trading for him probably does not want a player there who genuinely doesn't want to be there.

I don't think Buffalo moves him yet. They have a decent amount of capital to move to build a solid group around him. Thats really where their focus should lie.

 

[RGY]

Ok. Then you spread them out on different lines and give off that appearance of depth you want....but this notion you have to have a solid 4th line to win cups is nonsense. The bottom 6 just needs to not get shelled during their limited time.

Would you rather watch howden (insert any marginal 4th line/bottom 6er) play 15+ to achieve the more balanced ice time approach or our best players play an extra 2-3 mins a night?

Dear lord did you not read the last paragraph regarding Howden? Let me put it right here again...

And if Howden is our best option in 2 years to handle the important depth minutes then this organization failed at drafting/developing/identifying targets...unless of course he figures out how to be a more complete player in that he realizes a role in this league and becomes a specialist at it a la Dom Moore.

I am not aiming to have a “solid” 4th line. No. I an aiming to have a 4th line of players that could be many teams 3rd lines. That consists of your young drafted/developed talent that can eventually be your 1st and 2nd line players as you lose current players due to pay increases and having to navigate the cap. You have a constant influx of talent to keep your roster competitive for several years while also having quality depth in any given year. Its a cycle. The Lightning have done it for years. Have they won a cup? No but that is very well their own demise. But since we faced them in 2015 they have certainly kept their window open a long time while we had to go into a rebuild. And they kept it open while continually being a top team in the league. There is nothing nonsensical about the way they have built their teams behind Stamkos and Kucherov which is with great depth.

 

[aufheben]

The closest semi recent example I can think of is Seguin (who was dealt at 21) and Peverly for 3 prospects ( I don't remember where they were ranked, but I believe none of them were top 5 prospects) and a 28 year old Loui Eriksson (who was still highly regarded.)

No one is offering a Lindros package. A bidding war would 100% happen, but I don't see it getting that out of hand for several reasons.

1. A team has to be able to fit him in under the cap
2. A team has to be able to put together a competitive package
3. If both those criteria are met, a team is going to have to be pretty close to a contender if not a contender already. He doesn't have no trade protection, but I can't see him being all that thrilled with going to a place where winning is still a ways away (Detroit, Ottawa, NJ, etc.) I know that Buffalo can just tell him to get bent, but the team trading for him probably does not want a player there who genuinely doesn't want to be there.

I don't think Buffalo moves him yet. They have a decent amount of capital to move to build a solid group around him. Thats really where their focus should lie.

Seguin doesn’t not seem that similar to me. You’re probably right though.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

What? Eichel is already better than Nash ever was, he’s only 23 and not in his late 20s like Nash was , and the Sabres are a failure franchise it’s not his fault he’s literally their only good player .

we don't need him and the overpayment for him will set us back and 10 mil cap hit is high.

 

[RGY]

How often does an Eichel get traded though? He’s still so young and already so good, maybe some team offers a Lindros package in a bidding war.

The problem with the Lindros package comparison is NO team wants to be the Flyers. The Flyers traded all those pieces and won what with Lindros? Sure they had some awesome teams but they never won. Could it have been they didnt have a ton behind the Legion of Doom line? Meanwhile the Nordiques/Avs went onto eventually win multiple cups.

A good breakdown from Wikipedia:

Eric Lindros trade - Wikipedia

“The Nordiques reached the playoffs in the 1992–93 season, their first postseason appearance since 1987.[33] In 1995, the Nordiques moved to Denver, Colorado, and became the Colorado Avalanche. The Avalanche won the 1996 Stanley Cup Finals with Forsberg and Ricci playing key roles for the team.[34][35] Thibault was traded to the Montreal Canadiens for Patrick Roy, who was their starting goaltender as Stanley Cup champions, while Hextall was traded to the New York Islanders in a trade that netted Adam Deadmarsh. The Avalanche also won the 2001 Stanley Cup Finals with Forsberg and Roy playing key roles, as well as Alex Tanguay, who had been drafted with a pick acquired in exchange for Ricci from the San Jose Sharks.[36]”

Need I remind you what the Rangers offer was....

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

we don't need him and the overpayment for him will set us back and 10 mil cap hit is high.

I don’t think so. 10 isn’t high for a guy like him, and having Zib and Eichel down the middle long term would be a dream. With Panarin and Kreider flanking them, that’s as dangerous as it gets. I’d pull out all the stops to get Eichel.

 

[RGY]

I would much rather save the assets from an Eichel trade and see if we could pry Anthony Cirelli out of Tampa.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Seguin doesn’t not seem that similar to me.

It's hard to draw up a perfect comparison since he was moved exactly as his ELC expired, but I'll concede that he was a rung below at the time of being moved compared to Eichel now, despite the age difference.

But there is a large, large gulf between what Seguin returned and a Lindros Package. I would be beyond shocked if Eichel is moved and the package isn't closer to what Seguin returned. The "future" pieces will be better (higher regarded prospects, multiple picks) and roster player(s) younger, but it would be almost impossible for it to get beyond that IMO.

Not even McDavid returns a Lindros package.

 

[Roo Returns]

Eichel and Zbad as strength down the middle for the next 6-8 years and you're set. Eichel hasn't reached his prime yet. Rangers got Nash in his prime it was just bad timing (in true Rangers fashion) that Milan Lucic WWFing his head into the glass started a chain of serious upper body injuries for Nash (Lucic in 2013 shortened season, Stuart 9 months later, and then Bogosian going after Nash's neck in March 2015). Nash also had an injury history before. At least two concussions once when he first joined the Jackets and then one more after the 2005 reboot. He played that power game. Unless your name is Jagr most of those type of big puck protectors decline well into their early 30s.

Biggest thing for the Rangers besides eventually getting rid of Ruff so your goalies don't face 100 shot attempts a game and are tanked by February is they've been fine prospect and development wise since 2005 but they need that little extra oomph. They need to find one of these guys in the 4th-5th round who will become a 20G-20A physical grinding cycling nightmare and on an ELC to fill out lines 2-3. If they can do that they're set to contend in 1-2 years for the remainder of the decade. Maybe it's Baron if he's not traded for Eichel (j/k). But hopefully one of these guys like a Pajuniemi or Aaltonen or even Edstrom can be a late bloomer and fill that role. It's been forever since the Rangers drafted a guy like that who was actually positioned correctly. Yes they had Dubi/Cally and eventually Hagelin as complimentary players, but those guys always had to do more because of lack of elite depth.