Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XIV: There ain't no gettin' off of this train we're on

[bl02]

Dallas has lost 5 out of the last 6 games! They miss the playoffs and we’ll send Staal and Zuccarello to Dallas for .....

They had their chance to make a trade to improve their club. They are free falling right now.

 

[bl02]

Let's say next year Shatty is fully healthy, DeAngelo is what he's been the later part of the year before he got hurt, Skjei is slightly better than he's been this year, and Pionk is what he's been so far from what we have seen. That's a decent base to start w/ this defense.

Still need a top guy from this 2018 draft. Skjei is the only one who is a somewhat guarantee top pairing for the future. I agree tho with the emergence of pionk doesn't look terrible. A Bouchard, Hughes or Dobson would go long way. Lost all hope on getting Boqvist.

 

[duhmetreE]

If we don't hit the lottery I'd trade our 1st, Hayes + for Seguin.

Kreider Seguin Zibanejad
Chytil Names Buchnevich
Fast Andersson MZA

let me dream

Or move our 1st for a young stud defenseman. OEL? Klefblom?

 

[Alluckks]

We aren't trading our 1st unless it is for a higher pick

 

[Ola]

Grabner and Nash are both likely to get retirement contracts this summer. Sure, their veteran presence can help. But I think we just need to cut the cord and move on.

Build a new core. Let the natural leaders evolve from that group, instead of gifting that role to someone who may not even want it.

Lundqvist has been this teams real leader since his arrival. He may not have a letter on his chest, but he doesn’t need one. Staal, Zuccs, and Kreider are veteran leaders as well.

I think this group will survive w/o a overpaid vet that’s going to produce less than they’re worth.

And I wholeheartedly would rather see us re-sign ****ing Tanner Glass than Kovalchuk this summer. Just, no. What is it with you guys and big names past their prime that still want top dollar.

Good post. I am all for getting a bargain, will Grabner or Nash be it? I very much doubt so. Look at what Marleau got.

 

[Ola]

We aren't trading our 1st unless it is for a higher pick

No stone can be left unturned. We need top talent to win. Where are we getting the top talent from? We should know if it’s there or not. Can we get a ‘Keller’, by all means make the pick. But if there isn’t?

We should have decent depth next year even if “everyone” is traded, we should have good speed. If we get a lot of injuries or things just go South it could be a horrible year. But it could just as well be a year where we hang in there and get a pick around 12-16. Or we could suck and lose out on Hughes due to the lottery.

Give this rebuild another year — we are not getting a top pick in 19/20, the kids will have developed another year. That team should be planted in the 12-16 range.

Where is that top talent coming from? Babcock said that you need the top talent to win, they got Matthews. What if you don’t luck out getting a FOA — the right year? You can’t count on that. There need to be a Plan B.

 

[RangerBoy]

I’m also talking about what Brooks and Carpinello have written, and articles posted by RangerBoy after the trade deadline. Gorton was closing in on other deals that got held because TB requested McDonagh’s medical records. He simply ran out of time. There will be more deals. And Zuccarello is certainly at the top of the list of players likely to be moved. You may have have whatever interpretation you wish.

4) And I want to touch on something we discussed in the Rangers MailbagSaturday. That is Zuccarello’s future as trade bait and his value. I’m just hearing now that there were several teams interested in Zuccarello, and that there may have been serious offers at the 11th hour, but that the Rangers’ priority, naturally, was getting the McDonagh blockbuster done – and that went past the 11th hour. They obviously didn’t need to trade Zuccarello, and in fact didn’t mind at all keeping a veteran player – their leading scorer, even in a down year – on a roster that will be loaded with youth now.

5) They, in fact, won’t mind at all if they don’t trade him at the draft, though that still remains very much a possibility, because they are going to have to have some established players with all the kids coming next season too. He’ll be shopped, because he has value and because more teams will be in on him at the draft than at the deadline. Even if they don’t deal Zuccarello at the draft, they can keep him until the next deadline and trade him as a rental, especially if he has a good season. So there’s that.

Carpiniello: With team in transition, Zuccarello steps up...

The Rangers could have cut deeper into their roster at the deadline, and came close to a few other trades that could materialize in the offseason. "When you make a statement like everyone is available, you're seeing what you can get for players and how that fits in to what you're doing when you're rebuilding. I think we have a really good grasp now on the value of our players around the league," Gorton said.

Hey, there it is: the 'R word.' In their letter to the fans, the Rangers used the word "reshape." Now, Gorton's saying "rebuild," a term that carries significant connotation. So which is it?

"Yeah ... well. Reshape, rebuild ... I'm not sure how I'd best describe it," Gorton said. "We're doing things that are changing the core of our team. We're going younger. I don't know how to describe it. I know the word 'rebuild' makes people think it's a 10-year process. But this is the new NHL. Young players are en vogue. They're coming into our game and doing things at an earlier rate that they've normally done. This doesn't have to be a forever process."

Weekly Reader: Henrik Lundqvist and the 'R word'

Gorton made the McDonagh medical records comment in an interview. I think it was the Bill Pinto interview. Gorton said he spoke to Yzerman close to 20x on deadline day. They made the deal between 2pm-3pm and they spent the remaining minutes working out the McDonagh broken hand specifics. The Tampa doctor needed to review the x-rays.

 

[Graves94]

No stone can be left unturned. We need top talent to win. Where are we getting the top talent from? We should know if it’s there or not. Can we get a ‘Keller’, by all means make the pick. But if there isn’t?

We should have decent depth next year even if “everyone” is traded, we should have good speed. If we get a lot of injuries or things just go South it could be a horrible year. But it could just as well be a year where we hang in there and get a pick around 12-16. Or we could suck and lose out on Hughes due to the lottery.

Give this rebuild another year — we are not getting a top pick in 19/20, the kids will have developed another year. That team should be planted in the 12-16 range.

Where is that top talent coming from? Babcock said that you need the top talent to win, they got Matthews. What if you don’t luck out getting a FOA — the right year? You can’t count on that. There need to be a Plan B.

Ola, I think plan B is EK...

 

[Ghost of jas]

Carpiniello: With team in transition, Zuccarello steps up...



Weekly Reader: Henrik Lundqvist and the 'R word'

Gorton made the McDonagh medical records comment in an interview. I think it was the Bill Pinto interview. Gorton said he spoke to Yzerman close to 20x on deadline day. They made the deal between 2pm-3pm and they spent the remaining minutes working out the McDonagh broken hand specifics. The Tampa doctor needed to review the x-rays.

Thank you

 

[haohmaru]

Grabner is showing that any team bidding on his services needs to do their homework.

If you don’t have the right system for him, it’ll be a long contract.

Do we have a system?

 

[GregSirico]

Listening to Boomer this morning he admits he wants effort from his players more than he wants a top 3 pick even though they might be HOF caliber talent. This is what's wrong with this franchise ... kind of.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers are killing themselves

The post-deadline problem is that the Rangers haven’t been terrible lately. Well, not at all. Their three-goal third-period outburst, which erased 2-0 and 3-2 deficits, sent Wednesday’s match to overtime before Mika Zibanejad’s scored for a 4-3 victory and extended the Rangers’ record to 5-2-1 since Gorton emptied the cupboard.

That equals 11 points in eight games, which is 11 more points than does them any good, unless you believe that a late charge sets up next season, which, I am here to tell you, is absolute nonsense.

The only pertinent matter is that this roll has pushed the Rangers up a couple of spots in the standings, which means down a corresponding number of rungs in the selection order which means worse odds in the lottery.

Draft position is determinative. The NHL’s current lottery system, in which separate drawings are held for each of the top three picks, does to an extent discourage blatant tanking. But it does not eliminate the advantage of losing as much as possible down the stretch.

https://nypost.com/2018/03/15/rangers-playing-it-straight-and-its-killing-their-draft-prospects/

They are making Gorton's job more difficult. He wants to build a new core with the young players leading the way. Being the top players on the team. Adam Graves made a few comments last week on Leafs Lunch on TSN radio in Toronto. He pointed to the Hawks having Toews and Kane being young guys when they won in 2010. For the Rangers to acquire those types of players, they need to be at the top of the draft. The Rangers aren't getting those players at #9 or #10 or #11.

They have 11 more games. Lose them all. They need lottery luck too.

 

[Wamsutta]

It's a tough situation. Pro athletes will not deliberately throw games. It's just not how they work mentally. They're where they are because they're likely fiercely competitive people. That said, it's not at ALL helpful to win games at this point in the season; it's a lost season, they aren't making the playoffs, and they need the best draft pick they can get. I have no shame in my game rooting for them to take all the L's, but I don't fault the players when they do win. That's not helpful or realistic.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Kopitar, Carter, Couture, Getzlaf, Perry, Rakell, Pastrnak, Bergeron, Marchand, Kuznetsov, Tarasenko, Giroux, Parise, Neal, Benn...there are a number of top line scorers who weren’t taken in the top ten. Barzal went at 15. Schiefele went at 7 and was considered a reach. You can get elite talent outside the top ten. Yes, I would love win the lottery and be in the top 3. But, there’s no reason to go down the path that all hope is lost.

 

[GregSirico]

The Rangers are playing this straight. But given how much is at stake in claiming a top pick as opposed to a middling first-rounder, maybe they should have made a mockery of the final month by sending down their best kids at the deadline while elevating the least NHL-worthy players in their system.

https://nypost.com/2018/03/15/rangers-playing-it-straight-and-its-killing-their-draft-prospects/

 

[GregSirico]

The Rangers are killing themselves



https://nypost.com/2018/03/15/rangers-playing-it-straight-and-its-killing-their-draft-prospects/

They are making Gorton's job more difficult. He wants to build a new core with the young players leading the way. Being the top players on the team. Adam Graves made a few comments last week on Leafs Lunch on TSN radio in Toronto. He pointed to the Hawks having Toews and Kane being young guys when they won in 2010. For the Rangers to acquire those types of players, they need to be at the top of the draft. The Rangers aren't getting those players at #9 or #10 or #11.

They have 11 more games. Lose them all. They need lottery luck too.

What are the chances we lose out? Also need teams to start winning. I am starting to prepare myself for a 12-15 slot pick.

 

[GregSirico]

Kopitar, Carter, Couture, Getzlaf, Perry, Rakell, Pastrnak, Bergeron, Marchand, Kuznetsov, Tarasenko, Giroux, Parise, Neal, Benn...there are a number of top line scorers who weren’t taken in the top ten. Barzal went at 15. Schiefele went at 7 and was considered a reach. You can get elite talent outside the top ten. Yes, I would love win the lottery and be in the top 3. But, there’s no reason to go down the path that all hope is lost.

You are 100% right, but there is a greater liklihood of a player chosen in the first few picks panning out to be a stud than later on. It's just a #'s game.

 

[Richard Banger]

You are 100% right, but there is a greater liklihood of a player chosen in the first few picks panning out to be a stud than later on. It's just a #'s game.

It's just a numbers game.... we have 3 first rounders. I'm not worried about the numbers game. We're going to snag at least one top end player.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Or move our 1st for a young stud defenseman. OEL? Klefblom?

No way.

 

[Nickmo82]

It's just a numbers game.... we have 3 first rounders. I'm not worried about the numbers game. We're going to snag at least one top end player.

This team isn't allowed nice things. We're more likely to draft Hugh Jessiman 2.0 than a top end player.

 

[RGY]

They desperately need Smith to revive his career with a strong offseason. I am pulling for him. They need him to supplement the Defense until Hajek, Rykov, and possibly Day and others develop and are ready.

Skjei-Shattenkirk
Smith-DeAngelo
Staal-Pionk

That could work for ua

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

They desperately need Smith to revive his career with a strong offseason. I am pulling for him. They need him to supplement the Defense until Hajek, Rykov, and possibly Day and others develop and are ready.

Skjei-Shattenkirk
Smith-DeAngelo
Staal-Pionk

That could work for ua

I imagine they look to add a stop gap or two in free agency....

 

[duhmetreE]

I still feel we're landing in the lottery.

I'm feeling the #2 pick.

Kreider Zib Svech

 

[TheDirtyH]

Kopitar, Carter, Couture, Getzlaf, Perry, Rakell, Pastrnak, Bergeron, Marchand, Kuznetsov, Tarasenko, Giroux, Parise, Neal, Benn...there are a number of top line scorers who weren’t taken in the top ten. Barzal went at 15. Schiefele went at 7 and was considered a reach. You can get elite talent outside the top ten. Yes, I would love win the lottery and be in the top 3. But, there’s no reason to go down the path that all hope is lost.

Yeah, and the Babcock crying over elite Austen scenario is dubious too. Like, what has Babcock done exactly that's so fantastic? He won a cup in Detroit with elite talent (none of which gotten via high draft positions). And he's turned things around in T.O., but for all his talent at forward, the team hasn't won a playoff round and don't look like they'll win more than one this year.

Rangers have elite talent. They have for 13 years. So tired of the frame of mind that draw conclusions from correlations. That's basics, the difference between correlation and causation. If building a contender were so straight forward and formulaic, there wouldn't be so many teams f***ing it up.

 

[Off Sides]

You are 100% right, but there is a greater liklihood of a player chosen in the first few picks panning out to be a stud than later on. It's just a #'s game.

Far greater likelihood. As is right now they are almost destined to pick 9th or 10th if tankathon is correct.

Maybe next draft, but that too is doubtful given they are likely to keep a good amount of these players, likely even add to them through prospects and some signings, and that may put them in position to maybe even think about renting next deadline.

So I guess if the lottery does not give them a large chunk of luck, or they do not hit on later picks where the odds are low, rather than draft, it's back to the UFA, trade, rent thing.

Short of them really gambling by moving some good established somewhat young players to grab some extra picks, maybe not even top 5-8 or so as they may just not be available, I'm not sure what else they could do. I don't think gambling on those 2nd/3rd tier picks by using such players makes any sense. Perhaps Zucc can grab them something like #20-27 but at that point does even that make sense given at next deadline he could return the same late first?

Perhaps taking back decent/good roster players at the deadline and not flipping them right away was not the best idea if their plan was to build from the top of the draft.