Roster Building Thread: Part VII (2023-24)

[Machinehead]

Never said Panarin was cooked. He’s overrated af, declining and a playoff zero but cooked he’s not.

I don’t think saying that the top players on this team are better than the caps top forwards is claiming that they’re amazing.

You saying you don't think Panarin is cooked is like when you used to try to tell me you don't personally hate Zuccarello (which you finally admitted).

"He's not cooked, he's just extremely overrated and not good anymore."

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You saying you don't think Panarin is cooked is like when you used to try to tell me you don't personally hate Zuccarello (which you finally admitted).

"He's not cooked, he's just extremely overrated and not good anymore."

You really going to pull the semantics card?

Cooked= done. Panarin isn’t done, unless we’re talking about elite carry a team Panarin. That guy isn’t coming back.

Also I never really hated Zucc as much as I couldn’t stand his fan club.

 

[Machinehead]

You really going to pull the semantics card?

Cooked= done. Panarin isn’t done, unless we’re talking about elite carry a team Panarin. That guy isn’t coming back.

Also I never really hated Zucc as much as I couldn’t stand his fan club.

He carried the team in the regular season. You still gotta make the playoffs.

 

[Machinehead]

Honestly, Zibanejad drove offense 5v5 this past year.

I think we sink him with hard matchups. When he's up against an elite center (in the playoffs, that's every night), we shove him up the butt of said elite center every minute of the game.

It's an absolute fairy tale that Zibanejad is good at defense. He never has been. He's not even a good penalty killer.

We have to stop using him that way and put him in positions to score. That's what he's good at.

 

[UnSandvich]

He carried the team in the regular season. You still gotta make the playoffs.

We're past the point of being happy to make the playoffs though. We have the best goalie in the league, and a Top 2 Dman. We have a decently deep F core. Now we need to actually do something in them. If the goal is to win a Cup of course.

And Panarin has been a massive detriment in the playoffs. Team-sinkingly bad.

 

[Machinehead]

We're past the point of being happy to make the playoffs though. We have the best goalie in the league, and a Top 2 Dman. We have a decently deep F core. Now we need to actually do something in them. If the goal is to win a Cup of course.

And Panarin has been a massive detriment in the playoffs. Team-sinkingly bad.

I don't think we are past that. If Panarin tears his knee in camp, we don't make the playoffs.

 

[UnSandvich]

I don't think we are past that. If Panarin tears his knee in camp, we don't make the playoffs.

Well yeah, because we're down an 11.5 mil player with no way to recoup that. But are we a worse team with no Panarin, but 2 Trocheck level guys instead? I really don't think so.

 

[Machinehead]

Well yeah, because we're down an 11.5 mil player with no way to recoup that. But are we a worse team with no Panarin, but 2 Trocheck level guys instead? I really don't think so.

Yes. By a lot.

The criticism of Panarin in the playoffs is warranted and does hurt the team a lot, but his regular season was super underrated. He was still one of top 5 most creative players in the league 5v5.

If you replace him with two Trocheck's, this team is bad. Straight up bad. They wouldn't even be in the race.

If you take Panarin off this team and don't replace him with a better LW, they finish bottom 5 in scoring and 32nd at even strength.

 

[UnSandvich]

Yes. By a lot.

The criticism of Panarin in the playoffs is warranted and does hurt the team a lot, but his regular season was super underrated. He was still one of top 5 most creative players in the league 5v5.

If you replace him with two Trocheck's, this team is bad. Straight up bad. They wouldn't even be in the race.

If you take Panarin off this team and don't replace him with a better LW, they finish bottom 5 in scoring and 32nd at even strength.

Yeah sorry mate, but I don't buy that at all, in any way, shape or form.

 

[Machinehead]

Yeah sorry mate, but I don't buy that at all, in any way, shape or form.

I'm not asking you buy anything. We're not having a debate. I'm *explaining* to you that Panarin is still one of the best wingers in the league and carries this team's offense kicking and screaming at even strength.

It's just the same old "talented player bad" meme from Rangers fans at this point.

 

[Machinehead]

We should dump Panarin and replace him with two second liners to do playoff stuff.

Meanwhile, if we just gave that useless f***ing corpse Lafreniere even more minutes to score at the 277th best rate in the NHL, we'd really be cooking.

I literally get radiation poisoning reading this forum sometimes.

While I'm on the topic, what the pissing f*** did playoffs performer Vinny Trocheck do in the playoffs?

 

[UnSandvich]

I'm not asking you buy anything. We're not having a debate. I'm *explaining* to you that Panarin is still one of the best wingers in the league and carries this team's offense kicking and screaming at even strength.

It's just the same old "talented player bad" meme from Rangers fans at this point.

"Talented player bad" is a bit of a stretch mate. Having a guy who is worth a quarter of his 11.6 mil contract in the playoffs would be nice though.

We should dump Panarin and replace him with two second liners to do playoff stuff.

Meanwhile, if we just gave that useless f***ing corpse Lafreniere even more minutes to score at the 277th best rate in the NHL, we'd really be cooking.

I literally get radiation poisoning reading this forum sometimes.

While I'm on the topic, what the pissing f*** did playoffs performer Vinny Trocheck do in the playoffs?

Put up 1 whole point at evens. So, y'know, the exact same as Panarin. But for, y'know, 6 million less in salary.

 

[Machinehead]

"Talented player bad" is a bit of a stretch mate. Having a guy who earns a quarter of his 11.6 mil contract in the playoffs would be nice though.



Put up 1 whole point at evens. So, y'know, the exact same as Panarin. But for, y'know, 6 million less in salary.

Look, I know people want to win the Cup. That's what counts.

You also have to accept that you probably won't, and also, I still have to watch it from October to April.

Since I am henceforth using "Lafreniere" as a slur, I would rather Laf myself than watch this roster play hockey without Panarin.

 

[UnSandvich]

Look, I know people want to win the Cup. That's what counts.

You also have to accept that you probably won't, and also, I still have to watch it from October to April.

Since I am henceforth using "Lafreniere" add a slur, I would rather Laf myself than watch this roster play hockey without Panarin.

If we're looking for Panarin to earn his salary in the playoffs, we might as well start a new rebuild now. Dude has 9 points at even strength in 30 playoff games since joining the Rangers. He's got a 38.29% xGF at 5v5 (y'know, the most important type of hockey) in the playoffs over that span.

You can say that we've got to accept that we probably won't win the Cup, and that's all fine and dandy. I say that with Panarin playing this terribly, we definitely won't win the Cup. And if we're not going to win the Cup, why are we wasting the money on him?

 

[Rongomania]

Look, I know people want to win the Cup. That's what counts.

You also have to accept that you probably won't, and also, I still have to watch it from October to April.

Since I am henceforth using "Lafreniere" as a slur, I would rather Laf myself than watch this roster play hockey without Panarin.

The absolute f*ck did I just read.

Not supporting your 21 year old first overall pick is f*cking bananas.

 

[Machinehead]

If we're looking for Panarin to earn his salary in the playoffs, we might as well start a new rebuild now. Dude has 9 points at even strength in 30 playoff games since joining the Rangers. He's got a 38.29% xGF at 5v5 (y'know, the most important type of hockey) in the playoffs over that span.

You can say that we've got to accept that we probably won't win the Cup, and that's all fine and dandy. I say that with Panarin playing this terribly, we definitely won't win the Cup. And if we're not going to win the Cup, why are we wasting the money on him?

You don't know that. I absolutely wouldn't be surprised at all if he went off one of these years, especially if the team had a fighting chance. Nobody is going to look good when we're getting abused the way the Devils abused us.

Unlike some people, I don't think he's declined. His fantastic regular season disproves that.

He's just been bad in the playoffs which is inherently a sample I don't like to draw from. You can point the importance but that doesn't make it a statistically significant sample.

Better players have had worse 30 game stretches. Didn't Zibanejad have like 3 goals by the time March rolled around one season recently?

 

[Machinehead]

The absolute f*ck did I just read.

Not supporting your 21 year old first overall pick is f*cking bananas.

I'll throw that 21 year old in the Hudson. I'm rated E for everyone.

 

[Fitzy]

When Laf was drafted his peak projection was a Panarin level player so I think that convo is irrelevant unless the plan all along was for NYR to win the cup in 2028 not 2023 which I think we all know isn't the case.

 

[Machinehead]

You all believed Kane would do magic in the playoffs.

That er is what would happen if we played Lafreniere 22 minutes a game and just let him farm points with no accountability whatsoever. He f***ing sucks.

If you believed that, you can believe Panarin will have a good one someday. At the very least, he's the only guy I mentioned in this post who's a good player in the NHL.

 

[UnSandvich]

You don't know that. I absolutely wouldn't be surprised at all if he went off one of these years, especially if the team had a fighting chance. Nobody is going to look good when we're getting abused the way the Devils abused us.

Unlike some people, I don't think he's declined. His fantastic regular season disproves that.

He's just been bad in the playoffs which is inherently a sample I don't like to draw from. You can point the importance but that doesn't make it a statistically significant sample.

Better players have had worse 30 game stretches. Didn't Zibanejad have like 3 goals by the time March rolled around one season recently?

He looked awful in the playoffs the previous year too. I don't think he's cratering as a whole, but he's definitely declining. I don't think it's fair to dismiss his playoff performance just because "it's a small number of games" when it's been consistent across multiple seasons.

 

[Machinehead]

He looked awful in the playoffs the previous year too. I don't think he's cratering as a whole, but he's definitely declining. I don't think it's fair to dismiss his playoff performance just because "it's a small number of games" when it's been consistent across multiple seasons.

But the whole team was getting clowned. You say "38% xGF" like that's not what the whole team was doing.

We're judging an individual player on the basis of non-competitive games.

If we ever have a good, actually competitive playoff series at 5v5 and Panarin does nothing, I will personally send @GoAwayPanarin a present.

 

[UnSandvich]

But the whole team was getting clowned. You say "38% xGF" like that's not what the whole team was doing.

We're judging an individual player on the basis of non-competitive games.

If we ever have a good, actually competitive playoff series at 5v5 and Panarin does nothing, I will personally send @GoAwayPanarin a present.

Well with any luck, that won't happen. But recent history has shown it's at least a possibility.

FWIW 38% xGF was 17th over that timeframe. If we're just looking at last season, Kane was at a 40.93 xGF%. Panarin was 31.92%. The only worse player on the entire roster was Goodrow

 

[Machinehead]

When's the last time we had a playoffs series where we didn't look like cow shit at even strength for most of it? 2015 against the Caps?

I haven't actually felt like we were in a series since Kucherov beat Hank in overtime with that shot from Orlando.

 

[UnSandvich]

When's the last time we had a playoffs series where we didn't look like cow shit at even strength for most of it? 2015 against the Caps?

I haven't actually felt like we were in a series since Kucherov beat Hank in overtime with that shot from Orlando.

Im desperately hoping Laviolette can fix that, bc if not we're not going to make it out of division for the next 5+ years

EDIT: iirc the falloff started once AV started having input into personnel decisions

 

[Machinehead]

Im desperately hoping Laviolette can fix that, bc if not we're not going to make it out of division for the next 5+ years

EDIT: iirc the falloff started once AV started having input into personnel decisions

Yeah and his venom started taking hold slowly as 2015 went along. That tracks.

The front office recognized that we desperately needed a PMD and he barely played Yandle in a situation perfectly suited to bring out his strengths and hide his weaknesses.

The Torts/AV hybrid was the best system I've ever watched. Perfect mix of skill, speed, and effective grind.

When AI takes over coaching, "we just fired Torts and hired a clown" is the input I want.