Salary Cap: Roster-Building Pt. XX!| (Fun Title Here)| Fleury Proposal Here

Status
Not open for further replies.

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,705
8,141
just by going by the eye test, hes looked waaaaaaaaaay better than what oiler fans claimed he was.
hes a solid 5/6 dman. i wouldnt mind giving schultz a contract like cole got a few yrs ago.
then either use DP for a trade or expose him so LV dont take rust or sheary.

Oh yeah I like Schultz well enough, but we need a top 4 upgrade (if not now, then in the offseason). Daley hasn't been what I've wanted to far and neither have Dumo or Maatta. Pouliot can probably do what Schultz can for less money, freeing up cap space to bring in an upgrade (not sure who that is at the moment).
 

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,705
8,141
I'd only re-sign Schultz if Pouliot gets taken in the expansion draft. Otherwise, I'd look to recuperate a 3rd rounder or whatever for his RFA rights. I like Schultz, but he's not needed here unless he becomes a top-4 D.

Maatta has played very well recently, so I'm not too concerned with the lack of production. Points will come, there's only so many points he can get if he's not playing on the PP.

Maatta needs to produce. He put up 23ES points in his rookie year and 18 in 67 games last year. There is no excuse for 1 assist in 23 games.
 

SEALBound

Fancy Gina Carano
Sponsor
Jun 13, 2010
40,741
18,973
I agree with you in theory, but there's a temptation to under value some of your own prospects when you have a million of them.

Look at the Morrow for Morrow trade. Because Shero ignored forwards for so long in the draft (other than mid to late round 4 year NCAA prospects), we had 0 NHL ready forwards and he had to go out at the deadline to acquire them. Again, because we didn't have any forward prospects to move or promote, he ended up selling low on a prized 1st round pick (the fact that he wouldn't pan out wasn't known at the time) because we had depth at the position. He basically even said as much in his interview after the trade.

Maybe if he would have looked at organizational need and drafted a damn forward every once in a while, we wouldn't have needed to overpay for them at the deadline.

His theory was draft PMD and trade for wingers like they did with Gogo and Neal. Problem was, Gogo was decently established already before a deal was made. Bylsma...for the most part...wanted nothing to do with young players. So when it came time for those possible trades, they didn't have the value to return a Neal, they had the value to return a Morrow. Compounding on to that, because Smug Dan refused to play and trust young kids, when they actually needed an NHL dman, they didn't have any of those prized prospects ready! They had to go out and sign Mark ****ing Eaton. What a decable 2010-2015 was for this org. Dear lord.

Which is where the end of Shero's tenure got really cloudy. He was picking the best puck moving defensemen, failing to realize that a defenseman has to play defense.

Bylsma didn't help. Shero chaining himself to him was ultimately his undoing. He should have been gone after that 2012 debacle and most certainly after 2013. I think between Letang, Morrow, Despres, Harrington, Pouliot, Dumoulin, Maatta, we could have had a pretty good lineup but...the org didn't good anything cultivate any of them.

I call 2007 to 2009 a success for Shero. Post 2009 to his firing was a net failure. The one oddity there is the emergence of some of these kids that were essentially an afterthought - Wilson, Rust, Kuhnhackl, Simon and now with Sundqvist ready to break out and Murray obviously doing well...it remains to be seen the entirety of his tenure here.

Thoughts on Schultz's next contract? He's been good so far.Still making mistakes defensively,but very active offensively.If he keeps up,points will come.

I'd resign him to a 2yr contract at his current value right now. Raise may be iffy but I've been very happy with the Cole-Schultz pairing. They work well.

He hasn't proven to me that we should re-sign him yet. The points need to come first.

True, he got a goal last night. Hopefully he builds on it. He gets limited 2PP time and is on the 3rd pairing. I'd be happy with 10-15pts this year.

FWIW I completely agree with McLennan here.

The two starting goalie thing always sounds so much better on paper than it plays out in reality. There's a reason you don't see this kind of 'play for your job' mentality in the playoffs...well...you don't see it succeed in the playoffs, St. Louis.

Frankly this scenario hurts both goalies more than it helps them. Confidence is one of the most valuable 'skills' for a goalie to have, and having that thought in the back of your mind that a bad/unfortunate goal may mean you don't play the next game or three doesn't exactly nurture that feeling. Really the only time it ever works is when one gets hurt...which results in the other simply being the starter and not having to worry about losing starts with each and every tough goal.

So...pick your poison. Have a competition which generally negatively affects both goalies, but have that safety net of having a guy capable of starting still on the roster in case one gets hurt...or just go with a starter and hope he doesn't get hurt.

Couple that with the fact that MAF completely falls apart when he has competition...it just doesn't bode well for him or the team. Sometimes it's just time to move on. Iginla moved on from Calgary. Bourque moved on from Boston. Jagr from Pittsburgh. Broduer from Jersey. This isn't unprecedented.
 

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,705
8,141
True, he got a goal last night. Hopefully he builds on it. He gets limited 2PP time and is on the 3rd pairing. I'd be happy with 10-15pts this year.

Schultz has 6 points in 23 games. That puts him on pace for 21 points. I don't know why you'd be happy with 10-15 points for him. Offense is his calling card. He's averaging 16 minutes a night or so and gets 2nd PP time. He should be putting up 30+ points this year IMO.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
81,588
79,778
Redmond, WA
Maatta needs to produce. He put up 23ES points in his rookie year and 18 in 67 games last year. There is no excuse for 1 assist in 23 games.

I don't think he's producing enough, but he'll only be producing so much with no PP time. I'd be happy with 20 points this year from him.
 

SEALBound

Fancy Gina Carano
Sponsor
Jun 13, 2010
40,741
18,973
Schultz has 6 points in 23 games. That puts him on pace for 21 points. I don't know why you'd be happy with 10-15 points for him. Offense is his calling card. He's averaging 16 minutes a night or so and gets 2nd PP time. He should be putting up 30+ points this year IMO.

That would indeed be nice but what value I see in Schultz isn't always showing up on the scoresheet. There's a difference between a PMD and an offensive dman. They are not mutually exclusive but I believe a dman can be a PMD and not put up big numbers.

Martin is a good PMD. Karlsson is an offensive dman. Schultz is a PMD. Burns/Letang are offensive dmen. Schultz has been moving the puck very well on the third pairing. Both he and Cole have developed some decent chemistry together. If Schultz moves it up out of the zone and passes to breaking forwards who make 3-4 passes and score...Schultz doesn't get the point but the goal is because of his puck moving ability. Of all the players on this roster, Schultz is towards the bottom of who I have issues with.

Now, true we haven't seen the scoresheet numbers from our backend but I think they have been doing their puck moving jobs for the most part.

With that though, our GA is atrocious...damn...course we've had several blowouts though.
 

Riptide

Registered User
Dec 29, 2011
38,887
6,520
Yukon
Thoughts on Schultz's next contract? He's been good so far.Still making mistakes defensively,but very active offensively.If he keeps up,points will come.

Would depend on the term. I doubt he signs another contract like he just did unless he signs on for one more to give it one last kick at the can. And for that to happen, I think the team would have to have a pretty amazing playoffs.
 

SEALBound

Fancy Gina Carano
Sponsor
Jun 13, 2010
40,741
18,973
Would depend on the term. I doubt he signs another contract like he just did unless he signs on for one more to give it one last kick at the can. And for that to happen, I think the team would have to have a pretty amazing playoffs.

I think with his current level of play he could easily get $2mil for a 2-3 years from a team that's not the Penguins. He looked good last year and he's looking good this year. He's certainly a 5/6 PMD. Could be a #4 in a pinch if your #4 gets taken by LV and you don't have a replacement.
 

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,705
8,141
That would indeed be nice but what value I see in Schultz isn't always showing up on the scoresheet. There's a difference between a PMD and an offensive dman. They are not mutually exclusive but I believe a dman can be a PMD and not put up big numbers.

Martin is a good PMD. Karlsson is an offensive dman. Schultz is a PMD. Burns/Letang are offensive dmen. Schultz has been moving the puck very well on the third pairing. Both he and Cole have developed some decent chemistry together. If Schultz moves it up out of the zone and passes to breaking forwards who make 3-4 passes and score...Schultz doesn't get the point but the goal is because of his puck moving ability. Of all the players on this roster, Schultz is towards the bottom of who I have issues with.

Now, true we haven't seen the scoresheet numbers from our backend but I think they have been doing their puck moving jobs for the most part.

With that though, our GA is atrocious...damn...course we've had several blowouts though.

That's fair but I believe Schultz has the offensive ability that expecting 30 points from him isn't out of the question.
 

SEALBound

Fancy Gina Carano
Sponsor
Jun 13, 2010
40,741
18,973
That's fair but I believe Schultz has the offensive ability that expecting 30 points from him isn't out of the question.

Absolutely. More production overall from the blueline would be a godsend right now.

I'd really like to see the dmen work on getting shots through from the point. Daley last night had a couple of opportunities to side step the wing challenging him to get the shot through. We don't have anyone with a dangerous shot from the point. I guess Letang but that's hit and miss.
 

molon labe

Registered User
Jul 13, 2016
4,686
3,084
Florida
Our defense just looks confused about it's place on the ice at times. Join the rush? Shoot on net? - They're an offensively geared blue line that don't play like it. Is that a coach thing, or?..

I'm also back to wondering what our forward group is going to look like going forward. I really like Guentzel on this team. When Kunitz is healthy who is he going to replace? The consensus is Kuhn(?), but even that's not all fine and dandy... Kuhn is awesome on the PK and NEEDS ice time. Kunitz has maxed his potential and has been on a serious decline for a while now.
 

Paulie Gualtieri

R.I.P. Tony Sirico
May 18, 2016
12,366
3,077
Our defense just looks confused about it's place on the ice at times. Join the rush? Shoot on net? - They're an offensively geared blue line that don't play like it. Is that a coach thing, or?

I've had some suspicions that Jacques Martin isn't doing the greatest of work right now, seeing how he is the one who oversees the defense and the PK.
 

Speaking Moistly

What a terrible image.
Feb 19, 2013
39,728
7,402
Injured Reserve
Our defense just looks confused about it's place on the ice at times. Join the rush? Shoot on net? - They're an offensively geared blue line that don't play like it. Is that a coach thing, or?..

I'm also back to wondering what our forward group is going to look like going forward. I really like Guentzel on this team. When Kunitz is healthy who is he going to replace? The consensus is Kuhn(?), but even that's not all fine and dandy... Kuhn is awesome on the PK and NEEDS ice time. Kunitz has maxed his potential and has been on a serious decline for a while now.

If it was one or two defenseman I wouldn't be looking at the coaching but it's been a widespread and consistent problem. I've found them less out of it offensively recently but they are still capable of more. It's been a rough season for the top 4, tbh.

Kunitz will be given every opportunity to take his spot back.
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
54,410
18,847
Pittsburgh
I'm hoping when Pouliot gets back that they can start using him more to help spell guys since the back to backs have been often and continue to be this month.

They have been taxed heavily. They need to get through Dec. and maybe JR will bless them with some fresh wheels in the way of depth.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
92,401
74,648
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
I'm really surprised by people's assessment of Schultz. I think he has been horrid, especially given for the most part he is averaging under 17 minutes. It seems like Cole is the more offensive player on that line consistently taking shots and pinching. Honestly, Ian Cole has done a lot to change my opinion of him this year.
 

SEALBound

Fancy Gina Carano
Sponsor
Jun 13, 2010
40,741
18,973
I'm really surprised by people's assessment of Schultz. I think he has been horrid, especially given for the most part he is averaging under 17 minutes. It seems like Cole is the more offensive player on that line consistently taking shots and pinching. Honestly, Ian Cole has done a lot to change my opinion of him this year.

Well that should really tell you something about your assessment skillz then, eh? ;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad