Rocky: Changes might be coming soon!

[RememberTheRoar]

That wasn't directed at you at all. Sorry if it seemed that way. Just a general observation.

Gotcha, I fully agree with your observation

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

WOW. Okay, I like this.

 

[BobbyJet]

Mods: if there is another thread on this subject, please merge. I don't see one.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Mods: if there is another thread on this subject, please merge. I don't see one.

They should merge that one into your thread. Your title is much better

 

[piteus]

Does that mean Pulford is sharpening his skates and taking his trainers out of the closet? Thank goodness Old Man Bill isn't running the franchise anymore. Rocky knows what he's doing. He wants to win. Winning = Money (higher attendance + TV package + alcohol sales).

 

[CallMeShaft]

After the holiday season? Why not after the first loss? Try to force this team to have 98 straight wins next season.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Mods: if there is another thread on this subject, please merge. I don't see one.

You weren't the only one that didn't see it. Threads started by someone your ignoring don't show up, which I hate.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

You weren't the only one didn't see it. Threads started by someone your ignoring don't show up, which I hate.

Ooooohhhh, that makes sense. I didn’t realize that.

 

[BK]

GOOD.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

The only way I see Bowman going before/with Q is if he was the one really gunning to retain Q and the team's still bad or worse next season.

 

[TLEH]

I get what you’re saying. I think Rocky is viewing it differently, based on his comments. I think he’s saying there’s another William Karlsson out there, somewhere, go get him.

It’s overly simplistic, yes. But that’s what happens when you have owners talking about roster building. They see what other teams have, and wonder why their team doesn’t have that.

Also, I just realized how he defended the big contracts and said it was the right thing to do. I wonder how much he meddled in the Toews and Kane negotiations.

Yeah kind of what I’m saying. Why is this guy even worried about the hockey side? That’s not his job. It’s not even his job to evaluate the hockey guys. He is supposed to hire guys for that

 

[Esq]

He’s oversimplying stuff with the Vegas comparison. It’s not just a team of guys nobody wanted. Anaheim did not want to lose Theodore. Washington didn’t wanna lose Schmidt, penguins probably would have rather kept Fleury. Wild had to choose between Scandella, Brodin, or Haula.

He's still pretty much right. It was a lousy team on paper when the season began. Heck, it is pretty lousy on paper today.

 

[Kaners PPGs]

I can't 100% assess SB because I don't know how much McDonough was in his ear over the 1988 and Seabrook extensions. SB has done a very good job drafting but.... well what else do we need to say about our 6.8 M 3rd pairing dman? And when you think about all the no-trade clauses.... Ok, I am going to stop now.

 

[ChiHawk21]

That's not insignificant for him to publicly speak on the matter, no matter what side of that debate you're on.

agree with this. hes setting the table if he needs to make a move early on in the season.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

agree with this. hes setting the table if he needs to make a move early on in the season.

I think he’s going a step further than setting the table. He’s flat out saying changes will happen if the season starts off poorly.

He’s kind of promising someone is getting fired if things don’t start well.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Wirtz is 100% right about paying a ton of money to keep Keith, Kane and Toews. It was the right decision at the time but now its time to earn it. We know who needs to step it up, and its not Kane. Keith has some excuse as he’s a bit older and gave the Hawks so much value over the duration of his deal.

 

[LDF]

Wirtz is 100% right about paying a ton of money to keep Keith, Kane and Toews. It was the right decision at the time but now its time to earn it. We know who needs to step it up, and its not Kane. Keith has some excuse as he’s a bit older and gave the Hawks so much value over the duration of his deal.

wouldn't you say they already earned it, b/c of the 3 SC ????

 

[Toews2Bickell]

wouldn't you say they already earned it, b/c of the 3 SC ????

Yes. But I think there is more to get out of Toews. He shouldn’t be done as an elite player. He needs to produce like an 8-9m player, not 6-7m.

 

[LDF]

Yes. But I think there is more to get out of Toews. He shouldn’t be done as an elite player. He needs to produce like an 8-9m player, not 6-7m.

yes i agree..... but the problem with your pov is and this goes for many who equates his performance with his salary.

the GM needed to fix this roster before it became a problem.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

wouldn't you say they already earned it, b/c of the 3 SC ????

Problem is contracts arent retroactive payments for past performance. You earn yourself into a higher bracket, but when you drop the two largest cap hits in the NHL (at the time), that doesnt mean you get to ride your careers off into the sunset for the next 8 years and keep polishing your three cups. Toews, Kane, and Seabrook didnt give Chicago any kind of hometown discount. They were labeled the "core" and given core salaries, and they need to be core contributors.

Most would agree Kane is earning his keep. Seabrook is just slowing down too much and that combination of term and cap hit for him was an atrocious overpayment by Stan and he will never live that one down. Toews I dont want to hear about his excuses of hard miles or lack of productive linemates when Kopitar has dragged around the ghost of Dustin Brown the last 10 years. The eye test on toews the last two years has been very bad. He flat out doesnt know how to create space for himself or make plays happen. He just grinds cycles on the boards or stands around the crease trying to bang home junk. Which is noble and all, but we dont need a $10.5 mil grinder. You could get that from Lars Eller for $7 mil cheaper.

I cant even remember the last time Toews took the puck with possession and take it to a high danger area in the middle of the ice. Its all down along the side boards or dump it down for a below the goal line cycle and kick it back up to the point dman for a low percentage shot

 

[piteus]

Wirtz is 100% right about paying a ton of money to keep Keith, Kane and Toews. It was the right decision at the time but now its time to earn it. We know who needs to step it up, and its not Kane. Keith has some excuse as he’s a bit older and gave the Hawks so much value over the duration of his deal.

The Toews and Seabrook contracts are killing us. I get the Keith, Hossa, and Kane contracts. It worked. How much longer can we wait for Toews? At some point, we have to move on. If Toews has a revivial, that's GREAT. However, to think Toews will remotely justify that contract would be malfeasance by Hawks mgmt. We need to plan for alternatives.

 

[Panzerspitze]

The "smart" thing to do is hope/pray Toews has a revival and still dump his contract at the first sign of opportunity, because as has been alluded to already in this thread, there's no way his play going forward would ever come close to justifying his current contract.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

yes i agree..... but the problem with your pov is and this goes for many who equates his performance with his salary.

the GM needed to fix this roster before it became a problem.

How can you say his salary to performance ratio isn’t a problem? If Toews were performing like a $10.5 million player, this team would be so much better.

Also, if he were getting paid the way he’s been performing (~$6million) this team’s roster would be much better.

You can’t pay $10.5 million for a good second line center and expect to have a good roster.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

The "smart" thing to do is hope/pray Toews has a revival and still dump his contract at the first sign of opportunity, because as has been alluded to already in this thread, there's no way his play going forward would ever come close to justifying his current contract.

There was talk last night in the Toews thread that teams would line up with a package of prospects right now, and take on Toews’ full salary.

I feel like you take that, and use the money to sign Tavares — or two other solid centers and make Schmaltz your 1C with Kane.

Toews did a lot for this franchise, and he’ll always be one of my favorite Chicago athletes, but the Hawks just can’t afford him at the level he’s producing.

Him combined with Seabrook is roughly $17 million for two guys who are no longer playing like difference makers. Imagine what this team could look like if that $17 million were spent in other ways.

 

[LDF]

Problem is contracts arent retroactive payments for past performance. You earn yourself into a higher bracket, but when you drop the two largest cap hits in the NHL (at the time), that doesnt mean you get to ride your careers off into the sunset for the next 8 years and keep polishing your three cups. Toews, Kane, and Seabrook didnt give Chicago any kind of hometown discount. They were labeled the "core" and given core salaries, and they need to be core contributors.

Most would agree Kane is earning his keep. Seabrook is just slowing down too much and that combination of term and cap hit for him was an atrocious overpayment by Stan and he will never live that one down. Toews I dont want to hear about his excuses of hard miles or lack of productive linemates when Kopitar has dragged around the ghost of Dustin Brown the last 10 years. The eye test on toews the last two years has been very bad. He flat out doesnt know how to create space for himself or make plays happen. He just grinds cycles on the boards or stands around the crease trying to bang home junk. Which is noble and all, but we dont need a $10.5 mil grinder. You could get that from Lars Eller for $7 mil cheaper.

I cant even remember the last time Toews took the puck with possession and take it to a high danger area in the middle of the ice. Its all down along the side boards or dump it down for a below the goal line cycle and kick it back up to the point dman for a low percentage shot

you bring up several things and most of which has been discussed in depth. salary cap, value of a contract, length of the contract etc....

all if which i am not disagreeing with, but i would like to point out that he was a pivotal piece in helping the org win 3 sc. now for the other points i mention, why is he to blame when his agent played SB like a fiddle and got everything they wanted...... it was not his fault. most importantly how many players and their agents goes into any negotiation thinking of giving the team a financial break ???? did Seabs ???

he, toews is the end product of SB screw up. now with living up to his contract, players wants a contract to protect him and his family for an unexpected turn of luck where the player hits the wall and maybe his decline starts to happen.

Salary cap from a player perspective is and was setup for this eventual outcome.