Confirmed with Link: RNH Activated from IR

[Mr Positive]

Over the years I've thought RNH was small, weak, and not a good fit in the west.

What I failed to appreciate was how good he is defensively for us. He's intelligent, kills penalties, and responsible in his own zone. You really forget how much he can do for us. I also think he's a late bloomer and won't fully mature until he's around 25/26. Factor in the relative value of centre, he's someone I want to stay.

IMO, Eberle and Hall are more expendable for top 4 D at the draft than RNH is.

I have my own opinions, but I generally think it's more important to try and guess what is going on in the heads of Chiarelli and McLellan.

McLellan has compared RNH to Pavelski. Chiarelli would probably see him as a Bergeron or Krejci. I wouldn't at all be surprised if RNH was high up on the list of "avoid trading this guy" for the reasons you say

 

[snipes]

I have my own opinions, but I generally think it's more important to try and guess what is going on in the heads of Chiarelli and McLellan.

McLellan has compared RNH to Pavelski. Chiarelli would probably see him as a Bergeron or Krejci. I wouldn't at all be surprised if RNH was high up on the list of "avoid trading this guy" for the reasons you say

Good point. I think Chia will value what RNH brings defensively very positively. As always, the relative value of a centre must factor in too.

I just don't see Hall and Eberle fitting the type of team Chia is trying to build. Plus, they're great players who have high value. There are plenty of teams in the east and the west that would love what Eberle brings to the table as a sniper. Same with Hall, he's legitimately in the conversation as a LW for Team Canada.

Ebs and Hall are great players, with good value imo. It's not like I want to see them go because they suck. I just know that to solidify our D we have to sacrifice some forwards. Hall and Ebs bring the best value that I can live with seeing leave.

 

[oStealthKiller*]

Me think it'll be:

Hall drai/rnh rnh/drai
Maroon McDavid eberle
Yak lander/letestu kass
Hendricks letestu/lander cracknell/pak

I'd like to see:

Hall-rnh-yak
Korpse-mcdavid-kassian
Maroon-drai-eberle
Hendricks-letestu/lander-cracknell

 

[McFlyingV]

Good point. I think Chia will value what RNH brings defensively very positively. As always, the relative value of a centre must factor in too.

I just don't see Hall and Eberle fitting the type of team Chia is trying to build. Plus, they're great players who have high value. There are plenty of teams in the east and the west that would love what Eberle brings to the table as a sniper. Same with Hall, he's legitimately in the conversation as a LW for Team Canada.

Ebs and Hall are great players, with good value imo. It's not like I want to see them go because they suck. I just know that to solidify our D we have to sacrifice some forwards. Hall and Ebs bring the best value that I can live with seeing leave.

I think its almost a foregone conclusion that Eberle will be dealt. Hall on the other hand I don't see it unless its in a deal for an actual #1D in the league, which I don't see any team giving up for a winger. McLellan talks about Hall in a positive way as well, he always calls him a "bully" out there because Hall is relentless on the forecheck and will outmuscle guys to win puck battles. I just can't see the right trade coming along where we'll see Hall moved, and I think he does fit into Chiarelli's picture. He competes hard, he's not soft by any means and is more than willing to engage physically. Get this kid a couple puck moving D who can actually utilize his speed on the transition and he'll be invaluable to this team.

 

[snipes]

I think its almost a foregone conclusion that Eberle will be dealt. Hall on the other hand I don't see it unless its in a deal for an actual #1D in the league, which I don't see any team giving up for a winger. McLellan talks about Hall in a positive way as well, he always calls him a "bully" out there because Hall is relentless on the forecheck and will outmuscle guys to win puck battles. I just can't see the right trade coming along where we'll see Hall moved, and I think he does fit into Chiarelli's picture. He competes hard, he's not soft by any means and is more than willing to engage physically. Get this kid a couple puck moving D who can actually utilize his speed on the transition and he'll be invaluable to this team.

Thats the key right. I honestly believe that Eberle can fetch a very good D man (not Doughty, Keith, Karlsson, et al. level obviously).

Trading Eberle is very different than trading Jultz. Duh. He's not going because we want him out, rather, because he's a good hockey player with strong value. For example, on a team like Washington, Pitt, or St. Louis he would thrive. Chia could legitimately sell that value to teams in need of a goal scoring, clutch, trigger man.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think Eberle would net a legit, proven top 4 D man. Maybe add some of the recently acquired draft picks to close the deal.

If Ebs nets a top 4 D and Hall a top 2 just outside the franchise type category, Chia has to pull the trigger.

 

[McFlyingV]

Thats the key right. I honestly believe that Eberle can fetch a very good D man (not Doughty, Keith, Karlsson, et al. level obviously).

Trading Eberle is very different than trading Jultz. Duh. He's not going because we want him out, rather, because he's a good hockey player with strong value. For example, on a team like Washington, Pitt, or St. Louis he would thrive. Chia could legitimately sell that value to teams in need of a goal scoring, clutch, trigger man.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think Eberle would net a legit, proven top 4 D man. Maybe add some of the recently acquired draft picks to close the deal.

If Ebs nets a top 4 D and Hall a top 2 just outside the franchise type category, Chia has to pull the trigger.

I think Eberle in a deal gets you a top 4 D in a Vatanen level tier, maybe Hamonic tier due to circumstances. I just don't think this team will have enough offence if you trade both. We'd be left with McDavid, Draisaitl, Nuge surrounded by a bunch of middle 6 complementary players. That leaves you in a situation like Calgary's in right now where they need another top 6 forward, and even though McDavid, Leon, Nuge production wise and of course value wise are higher its not enough imo to have enough scoring. If Yak would have developed into the 30g scorer he was looking like in his rookie year then sure Hall could be expendable, but the only way I can see him becoming expendable is if we won Matthews or Laine in the lottery.

I know people want to add 2 top 4 D to the team and want it now, but it just doesn't seem worth it to give up a lot of our elite level talent up front when you have guys like Klefbom, Davidson, and eventually Nurse who will be pushing into those roles.

 

[snipes]

I think Eberle in a deal gets you a top 4 D in a Vatanen level tier, maybe Hamonic tier due to circumstances. I just don't think this team will have enough offence if you trade both. We'd be left with McDavid, Draisaitl, Nuge surrounded by a bunch of middle 6 complementary players. That leaves you in a situation like Calgary's in right now where they need another top 6 forward, and even though McDavid, Leon, Nuge production wise and of course value wise are higher its not enough imo to have enough scoring. If Yak would have developed into the 30g scorer he was looking like in his rookie year then sure Hall could be expendable, but the only way I can see him becoming expendable is if we won Matthews or Laine in the lottery.

Fair point. The value analysis completely changes depending on draft position.

 

[McFlyingV]

Fair point. The value analysis completely changes depending on draft position.

For sure, and believe me I'm all for trying to bring in 2 top 4 D this summer, and would be perfectly fine if a deal around a top 20D in the league became available for Hall, but I just don't think its likely that it happens, and I think we'd hurt ourselves in the long run giving up a ton of our talent upfront just to make the team immediately competitive.

My reasoning is if you do that and get 2 top 4 D for Hall and Eberle but don't add a true #1 or even top 20-30D in the league then what happens in 3 years when (hopefully) Klefbom, Davidson, and Nurse are some combination of top pairing or top 4 D and you also have Sekera and 2 more top 4 D that we traded for, but little offence upfront to support McDavid LD and Nuge.

The answer is you turn into Nashville who has insane defensive depth, but not enough offence up front to ever make any noise, and you also get stuck with a payroll looking something like this on the back end:

Klefbom 4.2M xx 5-6M
Sekera 5.5M xx 5-6M
Davidson 3-4M Nurse 4-5M

That leaves you with like just under half the cap spent on D. Of course its possible to trade away some D at that point, but you likely won't get the elite level talent back up front that we moved out.

I'd much rather try and find a stop gap top 4 D that can be had on a short term contract in FA or via trade for cheap plus trading Eberle or the 1st for another top 4, and then allowing the rest of the D to continue developing because the reality is we likely won't get a real #1 D unless Draisaitl or McDavid are on the table, and those 2 seem to be a pretty damn good fit as a 1-2 if this team wants to be a cup threat down the road.

 

[snipes]

For sure, and believe me I'm all for trying to bring in 2 top 4 D this summer, and would be perfectly fine if a deal around a top 20D in the league became available for Hall, but I just don't think its likely that it happens, and I think we'd hurt ourselves in the long run giving up a ton of our talent upfront just to make the team immediately competitive.

My reasoning is if you do that and get 2 top 4 D for Hall and Eberle but don't add a true #1 or even top 20-30D in the league then what happens in 3 years when (hopefully) Klefbom, Davidson, and Nurse are some combination of top pairing or top 4 D and you also have Sekera and 2 more top 4 D that we traded for, but little offence upfront to support McDavid LD and Nuge.

The answer is you turn into Nashville who has insane defensive depth, but not enough offence up front to ever make any noise, and you also get stuck with a payroll looking something like this on the back end:

Klefbom 4.2M xx 5-6M
Sekera 5.5M xx 5-6M
Davidson 3-4M Nurse 4-5M

That leaves you with like just under half the cap spent on D. Of course its possible to trade away some D at that point, but you likely won't get the elite level talent back up front that we moved out.

I'd much rather try and find a stop gap top 4 D that can be had on a short term contract in FA or via trade for cheap plus trading Eberle or the 1st for another top 4, and then allowing the rest of the D to continue developing because the reality is we likely won't get a real #1 D unless Draisaitl or McDavid are on the table, and those 2 seem to be a pretty damn good fit as a 1-2 if this team wants to be a cup threat down the road.

Solid argument. Top flight D men are coveted in this league. The gap between a true top 2 vs top 4 is a massive leap.

Eberle for a top 4 is probably the smartest move. Ebs is an awesome hockey player. His fair market value at a minimum is top 4. Ebs for Hamonic straight up is the value I see for Eberle.

Hall's fair value won't get the Oilers a true top pairing D. His equivalent value is probably a Maatta (Crosby-Hall), Seth Jones (with pluses from Columbus) type category. Hard to see a deal like that happening.

 

[McFlyingV]

Solid argument. Top flight D men are coveted in this league. The gap between a true top 2 vs top 4 is a massive leap.

Eberle for a top 4 is probably the smartest move. Ebs is an awesome hockey player. His fair market value at a minimum is top 4. Ebs for Hamonic straight up is the value I see for Eberle.

Hall's fair value won't get the Oilers a true top pairing D. His equivalent value is probably a Maatta (Crosby-Hall), Seth Jones (with pluses from Columbus) type category. Hard to see a deal like that happening.

Yeah exactly my point, if you're not getting that top flight D then its not worth moving top flight wingers like Hall.

If Chia could swing a Eberle (with a small+ if needed) for Hamonic, and a Pouliot+Yak for Vatanen I will name my first born child after him.

In all seriousness though I wonder if Anaheim would have any interest in that, they get two middle 6 wingers, one of whom still has the potential to breakout, and one who is a 20-20 type guy. Even more appealing for them would be the fact that both are LH shots, because they have an overabundance of righties. Maybe they consider this if Perron walks and we could either take back Thompson as a cap dump for one year, or retain like 500k on Pouliot.

Again, IDK if they'd do it but it would be interesting for us considering we could probably fill the holes it opens via free agency or internally if any of Slepyshev, Yakimov, Khaira, or Pitlick take a step forward to play 3rd line minutes. Also the potential that we grab one of the Finns who could fill the void.

 

[hallhopkinseberle]

Islanders added Leddy and Boychuk to help their defence. We need to find our Leddy and Boychuk this off-season and we will be a play-off team. First lets get to the playoffs.

 

[snipes]

Yeah exactly my point, if you're not getting that top flight D then its not worth moving top flight wingers like Hall.

If Chia could swing a Eberle (with a small+ if needed) for Hamonic, and a Pouliot+Yak for Vatanen I will name my first born child after him.

In all seriousness though I wonder if Anaheim would have any interest in that, they get two middle 6 wingers, one of whom still has the potential to breakout, and one who is a 20-20 type guy. Even more appealing for them would be the fact that both are LH shots, because they have an overabundance of righties. Maybe they consider this if Perron walks and we could either take back Thompson as a cap dump for one year, or retain like 500k on Pouliot.

Again, IDK if they'd do it but it would be interesting for us considering we could probably fill the holes it opens via free agency or internally if any of Slepyshev, Yakimov, Khaira, or Pitlick take a step forward to play 3rd line minutes. Also the potential that we grab one of the Finns who could fill the void.

You know, that's the reality. I agree with your position.

Other teams will not give up a top 2 D man for Hall. You lock those down. Try and convince me to trade Davidson. The 2nd overall pick wouldn't even do it. D men have a very high value.

A bona fide top pairing defenceman has a value that is disproportionate to ability. Teams need those locked down, 25-30 min type of guy on the back end. You think Pitt is giving up Maatta for Hall straight up?

 

[McFlyingV]

You know, that's the reality. I agree with your position.

Other teams will not give up a top 2 D man for Hall. You lock those down. Try and convince me to trade Davidson. The 2nd overall pick wouldn't even do it. D men have a very high value.

A bona fide top pairing defenceman has a value that is disproportionate to ability. Teams need those locked down, 25-30 min type of guy on the back end. You think Pitt is giving up Maatta for Hall straight up?

I think they'd have a pretty hard time making that deal since Maatta is likely their best shot at developing another top pairing D, and they have enough offence up front, but I also don't think Maatta would really solve any problems here. Maybe if Letangs health history wasn't such an issue and if Pouliot developed a little quicker they'd consider it, but again I don't really think the Oil should make a move like that. You'd realistically need some perfect scenario where a player either asks for a trade or needs to be traded for cap reasons to ever get a return for Hall that would be worth it for us.

 

[snipes]

I think they'd have a pretty hard time making that deal since Maatta is likely their best shot at developing another top pairing D, and they have enough offence up front, but I also don't think Maatta would really solve any problems here. Maybe if Letangs health history wasn't such an issue and if Pouliot developed a little quicker they'd consider it, but again I don't really think the Oil should make a move like that. You'd realistically need some perfect scenario where a player either asks for a trade or needs to be traded for cap reasons to ever get a return for Hall that would be worth it for us.

It's dreaming. As you reasoned earlier, hard to see any deal like that happening. D-men have such a high value, any deal involving a LW for Top 2 is unrealistic. Even though Hall is legitimately a candidate for LW on Team Canada, D value is proportionately higher.

Eb's for a top 4 you can justify. Even if we throw in a 3rd to close for Hamonic.

What we should be encouraged about is the development of Davidson, Nurse, and hopefully Oesterle. I'll take Nurse's nastiness any day of the week. I stand with Nurse.

Our D will get better my friend. I trust in Chia. I don't know about you, but for the first time in a decade I can see a shared vision of the Oilers future. Hasn't been that way in a long time.



More importantly: Nuge is back. Nuge, Drai, McDavid down the middle. I'm down to roll with that. We've missed Nuge defensively. He's going to be a late bloomer, Nuge will start to peak around 25/26. Let him mature.

 

[McFlyingV]

It's dreaming. As you reasoned earlier, hard to see any deal like that happening. D-men have such a high value, any deal involving a LW for Top 2 is unrealistic. Even though Hall is legitimately a candidate for LW on Team Canada, D value is proportionately higher.

Eb's for a top 4 you can justify. Even if we throw in a 3rd to close for Hamonic.

What we should be encouraged about is the development of Davidson, Nurse, and hopefully Oesterle. I'll take Nurse's nastiness any day of the week. I stand with Nurse.

Our D will get better my friend. I trust in Chia. I don't know about you, but for the first time in a decade I can see a shared vision of the Oilers future. Hasn't been that way in a long time.



More importantly: Nuge is back. Nuge, Drai, McDavid down the middle. I'm down to roll with that. We've missed Nuge defensively. He's going to be a late bloomer, Nuge will start to peak around 25/26. Let him mature.

No doubt I'm confident in where Chia is taking this team. A lot of people like to slag him for what he did in the Seguin trade, and a couple other small deals, but also forget that he built over 3/4 of that cup winning roster himself.

I have all the confidence in the world in guys like Klef, Davidson and Nurse. Klefbom and Davidson have both taken huge steps in development in the last 2 years, and if not for some very bizarre things happening I think Klef would have broke out this year. He was certainly well on his way before the injury. Nurse obviously needs some time to learn the game and fill in his frame, but I agree this kid is going to be a beast. Honestly if his offence never develops I still won't care, he's going to be an incredibly mobile and punishing 6'4 230lb dman when he finishes filling out with a nasty intimidating side.

Can't wait to see Nuge back in the lineup, I've said for a long time that he was going to be a late bloomer when his body and strength catches up to his mind. Sure wish we could have seen the full top 9 with 3 scoring lines for at least a few games this year, but this will have to do.

 

[snipes]

No doubt I'm confident in where Chia is taking this team. A lot of people like to slag him for what he did in the Seguin trade, and a couple other small deals, but also forget that he built over 3/4 of that cup winning roster himself.

I have all the confidence in the world in guys like Klef, Davidson and Nurse. Klefbom and Davidson have both taken huge steps in development in the last 2 years, and if not for some very bizarre things happening I think Klef would have broke out this year. He was certainly well on his way before the injury. Nurse obviously needs some time to learn the game and fill in his frame, but I agree this kid is going to be a beast. Honestly if his offence never develops I still won't care, he's going to be an incredibly mobile and punishing 6'4 230lb dman when he finishes filling out with a nasty intimidating side.

Can't wait to see Nuge back in the lineup, I've said for a long time that he was going to be a late bloomer when his body and strength catches up to his mind. Sure wish we could have seen the full top 9 with 3 scoring lines for at least a few games this year, but this will have to do.

Man it's kind of funny I honestly believe there's a common vision with the Oilers. Been a long time, hasn't it?

Nuge is a late bloomer. His best quality is his mind. He's a very smart hockey player, and excellent defensively. I've said before, he's the best defensive zone forward the Oilers have. Great on the PK, responsible in his own zone.

Drai, McDavid, Nuge = untouchable forwards.

We've got some grown ass men on the wing. Put Nuge, Drai, McDavid with Kassian, Maroon, and Hendo on each of their wing. Protect the future.

Never underestimate the value of the Centre position. If we roll 3 deep, plus have some nasty guys who will go to war to protect our Centres, look out.

Trade some wingers for some D help, we're looking good.

 

[Raab]

Yeah we've got a hell of a stacked team on paper

Till you look at the D... At least Talbot is making them look good.

 

[Raab]

Well I haven't watched Bakersfield but I find it hard to judge that team going off stats considering they are more focused on playing guys like Klinkhammer on their top line. Based on how he played in training camp last season there is no reason he should've regressed. If that's the case then I really question our development down there. Nelson was a great coach but it was the same thing with him.

I heard he's playing 4th line in Bakersfield, definitely needs to step it up if he wants to make it back to the show.

 

[StoveTopStauffer]

Islanders added Leddy and Boychuk to help their defence. We need to find our Leddy and Boychuk this off-season and we will be a play-off team. First lets get to the playoffs.

I felt like Davidson was a free find for us.

 

[StoveTopStauffer]

Oilers have approximately 4562 cumulative minutes of injured players (stat taken from average toi of each player lost).


For comparison Chicago has 1377 and NYR the lowest with 1233.

Gross. Imagine if we had even half those injured minutes.

 

[McFlyingV]

I heard he's playing 4th line in Bakersfield, definitely needs to step it up if he wants to make it back to the show.

He's playing 3rd line with Yakimov and Ford since Yak's return. Has 5 points in his last 5 games so hopefully this is the start of him getting his offence rolling

 

[snipes]

I felt like Davidson was a free find for us.

Davidson is a phoenix from the ashes. Seriously.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Other nice thing is this lets RNH get his value back up. I'm not advocating for trading Nuge, but I think when he's healthy he has the highest value. Tie this year first to him (and hell, next years too if need be), and go big game hunting.

 

[Oilfan2]

Here's my fantasy summer..

Let's say the Oil tear it up and come together after RNH, Klef, Poo and Davidson are back...

Perhaps Chia gets Hamonic for Fayne and a high pick/prospect?

Do the Oil really need to disrupt a team that has finally come together and perhaps only need a few 'tweaks' after having a great run?

If he miraculously rids himself of Ference?

If he resigns Kass for 2 at 2.5?

Assume $5m for bonuses.

It leaves $5-8m to sign an offensive D..say Yandle.

Team 'could' be:

Hall-Drai-Kassian
Pouliot-McD-Yakupov
Maroon-RNH-Eberle
Hendricks-Letestu-Korpi
Cracknell/Lander

Sekera - Hamonic
Klefbom - Yandle(or other trade/signing)
Davidson-Nurse
Reinhart/Gryba/Pardy

Cam
LB

Works out to around $68-70m....depending on signings/bonuses, etc...

 

[rboomercat90]

Columbus: 13-8-5
Nashville: 15-7-6

This is the only stat that matters. The trade appears to be working well for both teams, especially Columbus.