RIP Kobe Bryant

[The Roy Of Ottawa]

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

5+ Rings: Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan

No love for Pippen? Rodman? Kerr?

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

1) Pilot was very calm and composed in dicey conditions. Then loses contact for that final 45 seconds-to 1 minute. He thought he was out of trouble, possibly panicked and unfortunately was wrong.

My impression is that if you go into the clouds, you have to make sure it's planned ahead of time so you can be following the instruments and be ready for it. What you don't want is to be flying visual and then be caught in the clouds and have to quickly switch to instruments, cause the chance of disorientation is bad. It seems to me like the pilot was trying to fly under the clouds, and then the area he got into it was so low that there was no gap in between the land and the clouds, so he had no choice but to hit the clouds and at that point he couldn't see anything and may have been spatially disorientated. He decided to try to do a 180 to get out of the clouds but turned into a mountain.

It seems to me like don't try to fly in fog in weather so bad the LAPD isn't sending out helicopters, and if you do use instruments rather than using your eyes and flying super low to stay out of the clouds. And to be able to suck it up and to either tell Kobe we're setting the helicopter on the ground instead of going to the game or to tell the radio towers you're in trouble and need to get out.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

RIP Black Mamba. What a terrible tragedy. One that was, once again, likely 100% avoidable.....

Why were they even flying???? You look at that fog, read the reports, and look at the weather at the time of the crash, and it's pretty damn obvious there's NO ****ING WAY a helicopter should have been cleared to fly in that... I mean, the police stated that their helicopters had been grounded the entire morning, and into the afternoon, because of unsuitable flying conditions. And yet, a commercial pilot was allowed to take off and fly these families and their children???

But, exceptions are made for celebrities all the time, so it's really not surprising. What a senseless tragedy. One likely caused by arrogance, and terrible judgement. This is both extremely sad, and infuriating at the same time.

Ultimately it's the pilot's responsibility to make these kinds of calls. Say what you will about celebrity pressure or whatnot, but the pilot is supposed to know what conditions are flyable, and what are not.

As more news comes out it seems to point in the direction of a visibility issue, not a sudden catastrophic engine failure (which is apparently almost impossible in these kinds of twin turbine engine helicopters). The helicopter literally flew into the side of a mountain because the pilot couldn't see it.

 

[405Exit]

Heard on TV that out of all the NBA MVPs in history, only Wilt and Moses had passed. Never would have thought Kobe would be the third. And the fact that we truly watched him grow up in front of us, which wasn't the case for previous stars who passed away tragically, it's like a punch to the gut.

There’s only a few athletes I’ve witnessed literally grow up in front of my eyes. That’s Tiger Woods, Kobe Bryant, and Sidney Crosby. It’s truly a sad sad start of the year for the Los Angelinos and the rest of the world.

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

You can't really compare Maravich or other players of those earlier eras with Kobe. There was no social media and NBA players couldn't play in the Olympics or World Championships. The players got nowhere near the exposure that players get today. But make no mistake, Maravich was a basketball phenom, a white dude who was offered a contract by the Harlem Globetrotters - that just didn't happen.

Ftr Maravich was closer to the Iverson or Westbrook of his era. Very talented and popular, but basically a hot dog who took a lot of shots on weak %s, and was likely one of the most turnover prone players in history due to him going for the fancy highlight reel pass all the time (they only tracked turnovers late in his prime, but he averaged 5 his first year). His father coached him in college giving him the ultimate green light all the time and he shot like 37-39 times a game and averaged 43-44ppg, not that this isn't amazing, but also was probably a hilariously selfish sideshow. In the NBA he missed the playoffs I believe almost every year in his prime.

Not that he had a bad NBA career, it was still pretty good. But I think he's arguably a non top 100 player in history. Also, if Iverson died yesterday there would've been a huge outpouring of grief as well as I'm sure there was for Maravich in 88

 

[Voight]

No love for Pippen? Rodman? Kerr?

Or Mr. 7 time The Great Robert Horry

 

[405Exit]

Unbelievable turn of events. 2 days ago Lebron beats Kobes scoring record. Yesterday Kobe Bryant dies. Today is Lakers owner’s Jerry Buss’s birthday which is deceased. Jerry Buss was extremely close to Kobe. Absolutely shocked by the coincidences.

 

[Pez68]

Ultimately it's the pilot's responsibility to make these kinds of calls. Say what you will about celebrity pressure or whatnot, but the pilot is supposed to know what conditions are flyable, and what are not.

As more news comes out it seems to point in the direction of a visibility issue, not a sudden catastrophic engine failure (which is apparently almost impossible in these kinds of twin turbine engine helicopters). The helicopter literally flew into the side of a mountain because the pilot couldn't see it.

Someone still had to clear that helicopter and pilot to take off. How could that have possibly been a good idea when the sheriff and PD choppers were grounded? The pilot also needed permission from his charter company. Seems like multiple human failures contributed to this, to me.

 

[Taro Tsujimoto]

National Transportation Safety Board should be holding a press conference momentarily.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Someone still had to clear that helicopter and pilot to take off. How could that have possibly have been a good idea when the sheriff and PD choppers were grounded? The pilot also needed permission from his charter company. Seems like multiple human failures contributed to this, to me.

Agreed. However, keep in mind that it appears conditions deteriorated rapidly mid-flight. Poor but still flyable conditions can easily become extremely poor unflyable conditions in the blink of an eye when it comes to fog.

I find it insane for anyone to blame Kobe or to suggest he pressured the pilot into taking off because he's a rich celebrity and rich people get whatever they want blah blah blah. He flew via helicopter hundreds upon hundreds of times over the past 20 years. This was just a total freak accident.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Ftr Maravich was closer to the Iverson or Westbrook of his era. Very talented and popular, but basically a hot dog who took a lot of shots on weak %s, and was likely one of the most turnover prone players in history due to him going for the fancy highlight reel pass all the time (they only tracked turnovers late in his prime, but he averaged 5 his first year). His father coached him in college giving him the ultimate green light all the time and he shot like 37-39 times a game and averaged 43-44ppg, not that this isn't amazing, but also was probably a hilariously selfish sideshow. In the NBA he missed the playoffs I believe almost every year in his prime.

Not that he had a bad NBA career, it was still pretty good. But I think he's arguably a non top 100 player in history. Also, if Iverson died yesterday there would've been a huge outpouring of grief as well as I'm sure there was for Maravich in 88

I think Maravich was closer to a poor man's James Harden than a Westbrook, personally. And while I think he was definitely a top 100 player, he's certainly in the 75-100 range.

 

[Pez68]

Agreed. However, keep in mind that it appears conditions deteriorated rapidly mid-flight. Poor but still flyable conditions can easily become extremely poor unflyable conditions in the blink of an eye when it comes to fog.

I find it insane for anyone to blame Kobe or to suggest he pressured the pilot into taking off because he's a rich celebrity and rich people get whatever they want blah blah blah. He flew via helicopter hundreds upon hundreds of times over the past 20 years. This was just a total freak accident.

I wasn't blaming Kobe. Just stating the facts. Celebrities do not abide by the same rules and standards as the rest of us. It is entirely possible they were flying, when anyone else would have been grounded, just because it was Kobe. At no fault of his own.

 

[Terry Yake]

I wasn't blaming Kobe. Just stating the facts. Celebrities do not abide by the same rules and standards as the rest of us. It is entirely possible they were flying, when anyone else would have been grounded, just because it was Kobe. At no fault of his own.

true, but i feel like maybe due to the fog the passengers tried pressuring the pilot into landing somewhere which is why he at first flew too low (which is when connection with the control tower ended) and then eventually up to try and get out of the clouds

 

[Neutrinos]

I think Maravich was closer to a poor man's James Harden than a Westbrook, personally. And while I think he was definitely a top 100 player, he's certainly in the 75-100 range.

At the time of his passing where would he have ranked?

He was voted as one of the top 50 players of all-time back in '96

 

[SettlementRichie10]

At the time of his passing where would he have ranked?

He was voted as one of the top 50 players of all-time back in '96

That's extraordinarily hard to say, because even the view of players like Magic and Bird was different in 1988 than it is today due to 30+ years of perspective. Off the top of my head, Maravich was likely a fringe top 50 in 1988, sure.

Kobe was a consensus top 10 player of all time before he even retired. Maravich was a great player but didn't come anywhere close to that level.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I wasn't blaming Kobe. Just stating the facts. Celebrities do not abide by the same rules and standards as the rest of us. It is entirely possible they were flying, when anyone else would have been grounded, just because it was Kobe. At no fault of his own.

Private jets/helicopters get grounded all the time. What are you even on about here?

 

[Halladay]

While it very sobering and sad, it was also cool listening to WIP and hearing people who knew him he was a pro at Lower Merion call in. He was lunatic as a teenager. When the Sixers had the 3rd pick in 95, apparently he beat everyone they brought in for workouts except McDyess. This was when he was 16.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

For all the hot take TMZ wannabes here, you can stop with the "Kobe made me do it" pilot defense. A guy who piloted Kobe for 2 years was just interview on local news and says Kobe was never a backseat driver.

 

[Pez68]

true, but i feel like maybe due to the fog the passengers tried pressuring the pilot into landing somewhere which is why he at first flew too low (which is when connection with the control tower ended) and then eventually up to try and get out of the clouds

Quite a few things aren't adding up. Why were they moving at almost top speed when they crashed?? Hopefully the investigation will shed some light on what happened.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

That's extraordinarily hard to say, because even the view of players like Magic and Bird was different in 1988 than it is today due to 30+ years of perspective. Off the top of my head, Maravich was likely a fringe top 50 in 1988, sure.

Kobe was a consensus top 10 player of all time before he even retired. Maravich was a great player but didn't come anywhere close to that level.

But Kobe isn't a top 10 player ever.

 

[Terry Yake]

Quite a few things aren't adding up. Why were they moving at almost top speed when they crashed?? Hopefully the investigation will shed some light on what happened.

i think i read the helicopter had clipped the side of a hill which sent it into a tailspin

But Kobe isn't a top 10 player ever.

yes he is

 

[Cody Webster]

Replaying his final game on ESPN. The feels

 

[SettlementRichie10]

But Kobe isn't a top 10 player ever.

He very easily is. He's the second best 2 guard to ever play, behind only Jordan. Do you really need me to list off stats?

Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Russell, Chamberlain, Kobe is an easy top eight.

The final two spots you can make an argument Malone/Duncan/Dream/Shaq/Baylor/the Logo/Robertson/Dr J/Pettit.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

He very easily is. He's the second best 2 guard to ever play, behind only Jordan. Do you really need me to list off stats?

Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Russell, Chamberlain, Kobe is an easy top eight.

The final two spots you can make an argument Malone/Duncan/Dream/Shaq/Baylor/the Logo/Robertson/Dr J/Pettit.

And the 2 is easily the weakest position in the history of the NBA.

Russell beat up on short white stiffs, but there are players who you don't even have listed like Barkley and Stockton who were better. Kobe had phenomenal talent, but was extremely inefficient for a superstar player.