Speculation: Riley Sheahan trade candidate?

[Riptide]

I think the difference between the Sheahan situation and the Schultz situation is Schultz re-established himself last year as a legitimate point producing defenseman, thus deserving of a raise. Sheahan's been great for the Pens, but in his case it's more like he's proving he should be paid what he currently is. Without this improvement, he's probably closer to a $1.5 million player.

I think Sheahan will re-sign at a similar amount as he's making now, but with a bit of term (ie. around $2.5 million per year for 3 years). Being an RFA, I don't think he's got the leverage or recent track record to ask for anything in the $3.5 million range.

I'd be ecstatic if that's all he wanted. I think he gets something a lot closer to 3-3.5m then 2.5m - especially if he's getting term. I mean JGP got 3x3.1m and Sheahan is doing better than he has when he got that contract. And those were all RFA years, vs 1 RFA/2 FA years (if RS got a 3 yr deal). Centers who are good in the circle, good on draws and can put up 30+ ES points are guys that teams want. And unfortunately for us, I think a lot of fans will be surprised when they see what RS gets this summer.

 

[domaug]

i'll give u a 3rd for him. he isn't worth that much

no.

 

[Chainshot]

Why the Pens wouldn't just give him his QO (which benefits them) and see if he can replicate his production/use next year (which benefits them) and let him go to UFA (which benefits him)?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why the Pens wouldn't just give him his QO (which benefits them) and see if he can replicate his production/use next year (which benefits them) and let him go to UFA (which benefits him)?

I was assuming he wouldn't sign the QO, and that he'd want to cash in on his good season and get a somewhat long term deal.

 

[Chainshot]

I was assuming he wouldn't sign the QO, and that he'd want to cash in on his good season and get a somewhat long term deal.

Unless I'm missing something regarding his arbitration rights, it doesn't seem like he really has a lot of leverage.

 

[Riptide]

Remember... gms trade contracts and fill needs... penguins dumped scott wilsons 1 way deal and got back a 5th round pick

So basically it was riley sheehan for the difference between a 3rd and a 5th and a cap dump... and this was a desperate team making the trade

If sheehans agent is trying to get him a raise his trade value will probably be nil and he might be looking for work in europe

Not that losing Wilson was an issue in any way... but he wasn't a "cap dump". Pittsburgh makes enough money that if for some reason he wasn't one of our starting 12 (unlikely), that they could afford to send him to the minors if they had wanted to.

 

[Riptide]

I let Sheahan walk at anything over 2.5. What he does is very replaceable. Anyone who gives him 3 mil will regret it. He's a fine player....not worth 3-3.5 mil.

Play at 30 ES point pace while being very good defensively and in the circle? That's easily worth 3m.

Unless I'm missing something regarding his arbitration rights, it doesn't seem like he really has a lot of leverage.

He probably has enough to get 2.5-3m out of arbitration. Way too many comparables in that range for him not to get something similar if he pushes at all for it.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Not that losing Wilson was an issue in any way... but he wasn't a "cap dump". Pittsburgh makes enough money that if for some reason he wasn't one of our starting 12 (unlikely), that they could afford to send him to the minors if they had wanted to.

can afford and want to afford are 2 different things. even teams like Toronto and new York don't enjoy paying ahl players 600k

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

can afford and want to afford are 2 different things. even teams like Toronto and new York don't enjoy paying ahl players 600k

I'm not entirely sure what you're even getting at. Wilson's not an AHL player, and his salary is so minuscule that it wouldn't even qualify as a cap dump.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I'm not entirely sure what you're even getting at. Wilson's not an AHL player, and his salary is so minuscule that it wouldn't even qualify as a cap dump.

when you reach your 23 man limit... and theres still a guy left over that is making 600k on a one way... and you face the reality of putting him in the minors... you could keep him, or you could hope to be able to dump him in a trade

if you dump him for a guy making 2 mill... the 2 mill guy now effectively costs you 1.4

1.4 is less than 2

that's how cap dumps work

 

[Riptide]

can afford and want to afford are 2 different things. even teams like Toronto and new York don't enjoy paying ahl players 600k

He wouldn't have been in the AHL with us though. Again, I'm not saying Wilson is anything special, but he's a nice guy to have as your 12F. Gritty, has a little skill, fast, hits everything that moves, isn't terrible defensively, PKs and costs nothing. In short, he's a nice guy to have on the 4th line.

when you reach your 23 man limit... and theres still a guy left over that is making 600k on a one way... and you face the reality of putting him in the minors... you could keep him, or you could hope to be able to dump him in a trade

if you dump him for a guy making 2 mill... the 2 mill guy now effectively costs you 1.4

1.4 is less than 2

that's how cap dumps work

Yeah... clearly you don't understand what a "cap dump" actually is.

 

[BinCookin]

when you reach your 23 man limit... and theres still a guy left over that is making 600k on a one way... and you face the reality of putting him in the minors... you could keep him, or you could hope to be able to dump him in a trade

if you dump him for a guy making 2 mill... the 2 mill guy now effectively costs you 1.4

1.4 is less than 2

that's how cap dumps work

Um....

 

[Chainshot]

Play at 30 ES point pace while being very good defensively and in the circle? That's easily worth 3m.



He probably has enough to get 2.5-3m out of arbitration. Way too many comparables in that range for him not to get something similar if he pushes at all for it.

Then he should consider going to arbitration to increase his possible leverage. The only thing would be if the Pens decide to take the two year option, it would delay him from getting to unrestricted free agency by a season. Considering the Pens roster, there are certainly worse ways to spend a couple of seasons than with some of the best players in hockey.

 

[PensandCaps]

Play at 30 ES point pace while being very good defensively and in the circle? That's easily worth 3m.



He probably has enough to get 2.5-3m out of arbitration. Way too many comparables in that range for him not to get something similar if he pushes at all for it.

Replaceable for the Pens, Is what I meant. No need to pay Sheahan when he'll be 4C getting 12-14 mins.

And I doubt he is a 30ES point centre on any other team he's got to play with Phil Kessel for alot of the year.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

when you reach your 23 man limit... and theres still a guy left over that is making 600k on a one way... and you face the reality of putting him in the minors... you could keep him, or you could hope to be able to dump him in a trade

if you dump him for a guy making 2 mill... the 2 mill guy now effectively costs you 1.4

1.4 is less than 2

that's how cap dumps work

If that's your explanation, then I don't think you even understand what a cap dump is.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

If that's your explanation, then I don't think you even understand what a cap dump is.

so Pittsburgh says to Detroit... we will take Sheehan, but now we have too many contracts on the roster {theres a limit of 23} and thus Wilson is ticketed to ahl

its actually hard to justify to an owner that theres a guy making 600k in the minors. that's a lot of money even to owners.

so Pittsburgh says to Detroit you have to take Wilson if you want to get rid of Sheehan... and you have to give us a 5th round pick too

Detroit reluctantly agrees because they are desperate to get rid of Sheehan... but they immediately get rid of Wilson too. they are lucky enough to recoup their 5th

why does Detroit immediately get rid of Wilson? is it because they demanded he be included in the first trade? or were they forced to take him? what makes sense to you? get a guy and immediately get rid of him... hmmm

seems pretty obvious like Pittsburgh insisted Detroit take him to get rid of the contact and hence why I point out that its a cap dump. even 600k contracts can be cap dumps... sorry if that ruins your view of the world.

but seriously I hope this helps you understand how cap dumps work. it can be a valuable tool for understanding trade value and understanding the logistics behind trades

 

[Riptide]

Then he should consider going to arbitration to increase his possible leverage. The only thing would be if the Pens decide to take the two year option, it would delay him from getting to unrestricted free agency by a season. Considering the Pens roster, there are certainly worse ways to spend a couple of seasons than with some of the best players in hockey.

They can't. You can't buy up a FA year in arbitration. He has 1 yr left... if he goes to arbitration (and gets an award) the only thing that can be awarded by the arbitrator is a 1 yr deal.

 

[Chainshot]

They can't. You can't buy up a FA year in arbitration. He has 1 yr left... if he goes to arbitration (and gets an award) the only thing that can be awarded by the arbitrator is a 1 yr deal.

Did they do away with the 2-year team election?

 

[Riptide]

why does Detroit immediately get rid of Wilson? is it because they demanded he be included in the first trade? or were they forced to take him? what makes sense to you? get a guy and immediately get rid of him... hmmm

seems pretty obvious like Pittsburgh insisted Detroit take him to get rid of the contact and hence why I point out that its a cap dump. even 600k contracts can be cap dumps... sorry if that ruins your view of the world.

So many assumptions there. Must be amazing to live in a bubble where you know everything. You going to start sharing the lotto numbers next?

but seriously I hope this helps you understand how cap dumps work. it can be a valuable tool for understanding trade value and understanding the logistics behind trades

Well, seeing how that's not what a cap dump is... your premise is fatally flawed from the start... so I wouldn't be trying to preach to anyone just yet - you might want to go back to school first.

 

[Riptide]

Did they do away with the 2-year team election?

Nope. It's just not applicable to someone who's only 1 yr away from being a FA. If he had 2 years left (like when Hoffman went to arb a few years ago) the team could choose (if RS decided to file). But when there's just 1 yr remaining before FA, that's all that can be awarded.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

By his reckoning, then every single trade involves a "cap dump" because the salary of the player leaving offsets some of the cost of the salary of the player coming in.

Pens trade Crosby to the Oilers for McDavid, it's obviously Crosby as a cap dump because Crosby's $8.7 million is "dumped" to offset McDavid's $12.5 million.

 

[wingsfan17]

Is this on pace to be Brendan Smith 2.0?

- Wings’ fans watch player for years and know player isn’t good.
- Player plays well in debut season for new team, new team’s fans think Detroit fans are idiots.
- Player gets absurd contract extension.
- Player shows true self and returns to garbage form
- Red Wings’ fans laugh and say we told you so.

 

[Riptide]

Is this on pace to be Brendan Smith 2.0?

- Wings’ fans watch player for years and know player isn’t good.
- Player plays well in debut season for new team, new team’s fans think Detroit fans are idiots.
- Player gets absurd contract extension.
- Player shows true self and returns to garbage form
- Red Wings’ fans laugh and say we told you so.

One terrible season means he's "isn't good" ??

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Is this on pace to be Brendan Smith 2.0?

- Wings’ fans watch player for years and know player isn’t good.
- Player plays well in debut season for new team, new team’s fans think Detroit fans are idiots.
- Player gets absurd contract extension.
- Player shows true self and returns to garbage form
- Red Wings’ fans laugh and say we told you so.

I mean, define "I told you so". I don't think any Pens fan is saying Sheahan's going to turn into the next Patrice Bergeron. Expecting something like 25-30 points with solid defense doesn't seem too out of whack for a player who did just that even in Detroit every season other than his infamous 2 goal season.

Detroit fans keep acting like Sheahan probably should be in the AHL. So if he proves to be a solid 3C/4C for the Pens, do we get to say "told you so"?

 

[ColbyChaos]

I would be extremely surprised to see Sheahan netting anything more than 2.5 million. Also factoring in it is extremely doubtfull he ever has a repeat of this year unless he re-signs for cheap in Pit. Take him away from one of the highest offenses in the league and his point totals will drop in a noticeable fashion. He works great in their system but any team that signs him with the belief that this will be the new norm for him will be disapointed