Post-Game Talk: Rielly is Rielly, Rielly Good. But Leafs Still Lose. 2-1 Shootout Loss

[TML1]

He actually played a good game tonight. I'm not sure it's a problem when you have to stick up for a player that actually played well.

Initial jump out of the gate, nice chip pass to Bozak to get out of the zone to send JVR on the goal.

I get it, his contract sucks. But sometimes you just have to give credit where it's due.

I agree on giving credit when it's due but perform well on a more consistent basis before you start praising him, especially when you consider his overall body of work .

 

[showtime8]

I agree on giving credit when it's due but perform well on a more consistent basis before you start praising him, especially when you consider his overall body of work .

I'm not praising him by any means.

But this is a post-game thread of the game against the New Jersey Devils where he actually played well.

This is the problem that bugs me. I don't care if he's going to be bought out in the off-season or traded or waived, etc.

I'm also glad that Morgan Rielly is playing a lot more and has looked very strong. I think that was a message from management when Horachek took over. They wanted to see how he handled more responsibilities.

 

[wingman75]

Bernier isn't very good. Which I guess is good.

Thought we were the better team tonite. They deserved a win, but you know 4 months of **** hockey brings with it a lot of karma.

The positive out of all of this, is we are getting to see which players the team should keep moving forward. Will be interesting to see if management sees the same thing.

Kadri and Reilly are for sure keepers. Would like to keep most of the bottom 6 as well. Anything else can be had including les gardiens.

...and to add to the current convo, I thought 71 was OK tonight. Which means it was probably his 2nd best game of the year.

 

[yubbers]

Clarkson is finding his game...

Problem is, we'll have to draft this guy to help him find it

 

[Nithoniniel]

Bernier isn't very good. Which I guess is good.

Thought we were the better team tonite. They deserved a win, but you know 4 months of **** hockey brings with it a lot of karma.

The positive out of all of this, is we are getting to see which players the team should keep moving forward. Will be interesting to see if management sees the same thing.

Kadri and Reilly are for sure keepers. Would like to keep most of the bottom 6 as well. Anything else can be had including les gardiens.

...and to add to the current convo, I thought 71 was OK tonight. Which means it was probably his 2nd best game of the year.

Bernier is very good. Unless you think there's only about 10 good goalies in the league.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Forget about the actual A

It's the fact this management has rewarded one of the worst players on this team, with questionably the worst contract in the league ANYTHING. It just shows how deep the owners have their hands in things IMO. If Nonis is fully neutered (which I believe so) then you just got a first glimpse at Shanny the puppet

They should give him an A but follow it up with HL

so because Clarkson has the letter. "okay worse contract or whatever."
this is a sign that Shanahan is netured.

okay people think i totally over think things but i really think you're over thinking this. Period.

like I said. on who is on the roster. going by what you just said right: Who would wear it?

Jake and Morgan do not need that pressure right now.
Komarov is still basically a rookie on this team.

Phil is basically being hanged for every single problem that this team has, if you were the coaching staff would you give him the A during the worst streak this team has had in almost 100 years?
Winnik/Santa are basically out the door (so it's going to be "hi - we're totally trying to trade you, but we like you enough to give you an A right now).
Polak - (who you don't like) (eh - i guess it could have been him).
Franson (had the other one and yah he's probably gone too but he's been here longer than Winnik and Santa)
Bozak already wears won
and the other two are injured.
and the rest were rookies
and Bernier and Reimer can't wear it.

so it's basically betweenWinnik, Santa Polak and Clarkson.
out of those three as craptastic as Clarkson is, he's got seniority simply based on being here -regardless of how much we all wish that weren't the case which is basically my estimation of why he got anything to begin with. and he wouldn't HAVE anything if Lupul or Robidas were activated.

if you want to go through this belief that Shanahan is a puppet because Clarkson has an A is crazy and out of everything wrong with the leafs to get worked up about - this truly, would be a dot to all of those problem.

but. (shrug). if you want to lather yourself up on this, lather away. i just think that is an extreme leap to make.

 

[yubbers]

I was saying Nonis is is neutered. Therefore not his call. So who made that call then? Shanny has no attachment to that deal. Why would he reward such abysmal failure?

 

[yubbers]

Literally anyone but him.

 

[Torontonian]

Bernier isn't very good. Which I guess is good.

Thought we were the better team tonite. They deserved a win, but you know 4 months of **** hockey brings with it a lot of karma.

The positive out of all of this, is we are getting to see which players the team should keep moving forward. Will be interesting to see if management sees the same thing.

Kadri and Reilly are for sure keepers. Would like to keep most of the bottom 6 as well. Anything else can be had including les gardiens.

...and to add to the current convo, I thought 71 was OK tonight. Which means it was probably his 2nd best game of the year.

The only thing Bernier isin't good at is the shootouts.. I still say they really should get rid of them

 

[Daisy Jane]

I was saying Nonis is is neutered. Therefore not his call. So who made that call then? Shanny has no attachment to that deal. Why would he reward such abysmal failure?

just because Burke and Wilson assigned letters willynilly, doesn't mean that Shanahan is doing it quietly.

but truthfully, like i said. i usually get you, you know we're buds but I think you are totally out to lunch on this. but as I don't like it when people tell me to stop being worked up when i'm getting a good one going - go for it. be upset. lol i just think you're just. really really reaching.

and if you end up being right, you owe me a big fat i told you so.

 

[yubbers]

Fair enough

It has me right angry. And I'm not even that adamant a clarkson hater.

 

[Semantics]

Maybe Carlyle and Horachek and Wilson weren't the problem.

That's 3 coaches with 3 different styles trying to get something out of the true problem the ________ . (fill in the blank, here's a hint it rhymes with layers)

Can you show me anyone who actually thought the coaches were the only problem with this team?

Besides, Horacek shouldn't count as one of those three coaches. He was Carlyle's right hand man for half the season and isn't changing some of the worst things Carlyle did like Clarkson on the PP and in the top 6. You actually have to see what a real coach can do before saying Carlyle wasn't a problem.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I was saying Nonis is is neutered. Therefore not his call. So who made that call then? Shanny has no attachment to that deal. Why would he reward such abysmal failure?

I've never seen captaincy or alternate captaincy as a reward of any kind. It shouldn't be, at least. I couldn't care less if the player was a goon on the fourth line if he was the right personality, with the right character and professionalism.

I've read that Clarkson has shown that he considers some shenanigans on the team unacceptable, and we know that for all his flaws he is very professional about what he does. I prefer someone like that getting an 'A' before a Bozak, JVR or Kessel.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Kypreos is right, Big Contract Dude should have blocked the shot... no gimmies. The look on Horachek's face says it all. Call a TO, moron.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

The only thing Bernier isin't good at is the shootouts.. I still say they really should get rid of them

Get rid of him? Are you crazy? The guy is not elite but very good. He just needs a better defence in front of him.

 

[Tak7]

0 points is better than 1.

But 1 is better than 2.

Well done boys.

At this rate, any sort of late season surge might not actually matter.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I've never seen captaincy or alternate captaincy as a reward of any kind. It shouldn't be, at least. I couldn't care less if the player was a goon on the fourth line if he was the right personality, with the right character and professionalism.

I've read that Clarkson has shown that he considers some shenanigans on the team unacceptable, and we know that for all his flaws he is very professional about what he does. I prefer someone like that getting an 'A' before a Bozak, JVR or Kessel.

he's just in a bad position, because basically. he stinks.
(and I don't know how he's going to unstink. unless we put the cage back on his face).

so I get where yubbers is coming from. (because some people will go "it's a reward)
I think it's basically seniority based on who is available to wear the A - and I wouldn't give it to kessel.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

No PHANEUF... We play well. Coincidence?

 

[yubbers]

I've never seen captaincy or alternate captaincy as a reward of any kind. It shouldn't be, at least. I couldn't care less if the player was a goon on the fourth line if he was the right personality, with the right character and professionalism.

I've read that Clarkson has shown that he considers some shenanigans on the team unacceptable, and we know that for all his flaws he is very professional about what he does. I prefer someone like that getting an 'A' before a Bozak, JVR or Kessel.

I interview tons of salesman that are super nice dudes, do charity work, go to church, has a family ect.

And those qualities definately are good to have in a leader. But if they can't sell anything, they can't lead anybody. Nor would I insult my other employees that actually perform by doing so because we live in a world of results.

 

[Torontonian]

Get rid of him? Are you crazy? The guy is not elite but very good. He just needs a better defence in front of him.

The shootout, not bernier.

 

[Cor]

I don't mind Clarkson getting the A.

Say what you want about his play, but his characters as a person, and a human being, he's a good fit for the A.

Letters aren't rewards either.

 

[Tak7]

I don't mind Clarkson getting the A.

Say what you want about his play, but his characters as a person, and a human being, he's a good fit for the A.

Letters aren't rewards either.

Yep.

"A"s are normally rewarded more based on what's happening in the room, rather than what's happening on the ice.

Incidentally the sort of stuff we as fans don't ever get to see - making these discussions about who deserves the A and who doesn't entirely irrelevant.

 

[Nithoniniel]

he's just in a bad position, because basically. he stinks.
(and I don't know how he's going to unstink. unless we put the cage back on his face).

so I get where yubbers is coming from. (because some people will go "it's a reward)
I think it's basically seniority based on who is available to wear the A - and I wouldn't give it to kessel.

Yeah, I know. I do too. I just feel like the criticism of his play and his contract spills over to things unrelated to his play and contract too often.

I interview tons of salesman that are super nice dudes, do charity work, go to church, has a family ect.

And those qualities definately are good to have in a leader. But if they can't sell anything, they can't lead anybody. Nor would I insult my other employees that actually perform by doing so because we live in a world of results.

I'm not sure that comparison works though.

For example, that salesman might not be the best at selling anything, but at his new position his job would be a lot more managerial and that fits him better.

For me, captaincy (including alternates) is a lot about setting a mark on what type of character the team is. Setting standards for what is expected out of a player on that team. Not everyone has the talent to follow suit on a skilled guys example on the ice, but everyone can follow suit on a professional approach off the ice.

I don't like this tendency in today's NHL to give captaincy and alternate captaincy to the star players. For Toronto, I wouldn't mind seeing Komarov, Santorelli, Polak and Winnik with letters. They are the guys I want to be an example on this team.

 

[yubbers]

There ya go. Santa and Winnick deserve an A far more than Clarkson. The answer was that simple.

Which is why I question it. It just reeks of misdirection for the causal fan. Or maybe I'm just getting to defcon 5 level of leafs jadedness

 

[yubbers]

Maybe it's cause I'm old school but you guys all seem to really downplay the letters nowadays.

They're more important than you think. That's how you don't just build a team, you build a family. A legacy. Look at the Wings. Their letters were all dudes that played out most of their careers there. You wonder why nobody wants to come to TO? Cause it's a ship with no captain and every year it of course hits the rocks.

This city hasn't seen a true leader since Sundin. That's sad.