News Article: Rick Pracey Hired as Director of Amateur Scouting

[McShogun99]

Howden, Roy, Kolesar, McNabb, Whitecloud, Hague.
Big, mean and can skate.
And combined shut down our wings and dominated our right side D.

Yet it was still Eichel's line and the teams inability to shut them down that cost us the series. We were the more physical team in the first 4 games and when Vegas realized they couldn't match us physically they played a passive game.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Its a terrible graph.

Given that we drafted 1,1,1,7,3,1,4,22,10,8 and 14th you would think that given our draft position we would see a lot of guys with high games played.

It doesn't factor in teams with a bunch of picks either who just throw a lot of darts at the dart board.

Like Tampa Bay is #1 with Connolly at 536 games, Gudas at 682 games, Namestnikov at 630 games, Drouin at 485 and Paquette at 448. Thats 2,781 games of garbage. I'm not suggesting they didn't do a good job drafting (because they did) but look at GP over a specific range is a terrible way at grading someone's draft.

Third round or later.

 

[Anarchism]

Yet it was still Eichel's line and the teams inability to shut them down that cost us the series. We were the more physical team in the first 4 games and when Vegas realized they couldn't match us physically they played a passive game.

Why do you think we couldn't shut Eichel's line down?
You think Roy Howden Hague became passive....more like they cost us the series.
Hague directly took Nurse ....cost us the next game because we had nothing for D depth. Broberg was a joke.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Its a terrible graph.

Given that we drafted 1,1,1,7,3,1,4,22,10,8 and 14th you would think that given our draft position we would see a lot of guys with high games played.

It doesn't factor in teams with a bunch of picks either who just throw a lot of darts at the dart board.

Like Tampa Bay is #1 with Connolly at 536 games, Gudas at 682 games, Namestnikov at 630 games, Drouin at 485 and Paquette at 448. Thats 2,781 games of garbage. I'm not suggesting they didn't do a good job drafting (because they did) but look at GP over a specific range is a terrible way at grading someone's draft.

The chart is round 3 or later draft picks so rightfully doesn't include 1st round picks.

Though begs a question what a comprehensive amateur draft evaluation model would look like including all variables and weighted considerations. One scenario of interest would likely be a negative variable for missing on top ten picks (games, production) which carry a high consequence when weighted against their probability of success relative to average top ten results. On the opposition end is a positive weighting for a mid/late round pick of players like Gaudreau who super size results in terms of production and games played relative to draft position.

Might be super complex to create (for me anyways!) but would be fascinating to see how teams grade out with all drafting scenarios and results considered. The Oilers draft evaluation I daresay would look much different and likely far worse adding the weighted failures of two top 5 picks. Add in the sad reality they've really haven't had any breakthrough round 3 or later big hits. Hell, not really any 2nd round or later positive outliers.

 

[McDoused]

Third round or later.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Howden, Roy, Kolesar, McNabb, Whitecloud, Hague.
Big, mean and can skate.
And combined shut down our wings and dominated our right side D.

McNabb barely showed up and was mostly ineffective from what I saw of him in the playoffs. He hits like a freight train when he's on but he was bouncing off of players. He must have been injured.

The Oilers should trade for Whitecloud.

 

[PULSATING]

I’m actually more inclined to think this is a Holland hire.

I don’t think it really matters when all of the above bozos are Katz hires

 

[PULSATING]

Looked on his LinkedIn profile and he was a apparently a goaltending consultant with the Minnesota Wild for a year and a half before the Avs job (2000-01).

One particular name that the Wild brought on during his tenure: Dwayne Roloson.

Does evil exist?
The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists? A student bravely replied, "Yes, he did!"

"God created everything? The professor asked.

"Yes sir", the student replied.

The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil". The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?"

"Of course", replied the professor.

The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question.

The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."

The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"

The professor responded, "Of course it does."

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

The young man's name — Dwayne Roloson.

 

[McShogun99]

Why do you think we couldn't shut Eichel's line down?
You think Roy Howden Hague became passive....more like they cost us the series.
Hague directly took Nurse ....cost us the next game because we had nothing for D depth. Broberg was a joke.

Poor matchup decisions by Woodcroft, Nurse should have been smarter about going after Hague. Broberg was alright in game 5 even though he had a phantom penalty called on him which led to us losing the game.

 

[K1984]

Why do you think we couldn't shut Eichel's line down?
You think Roy Howden Hague became passive....more like they cost us the series.
Hague directly took Nurse ....cost us the next game because we had nothing for D depth. Broberg was a joke.

Don't discount the fact that Yamamoto was borderline unplayable in that series. He was absolutely atrocious in all ends of the ice, and couldn't handle the board play for a second. It didn't help things that either a playing terribly and/or injured RNH or an injured Hyman were on the other side of centre on that line.

The problem in the series was a combination of the following:

1) Woodcroft stubbornly stacking the top line through the first three games which created a garbage second line that included RNH at C combined with Yamo on the right wing. This created a matchup field day for Vegas. Yamo was useless, and Nuge isn't good at C at the best of times, but especially not when he's not playing well/injured, and certainly not in a hard matchup scenario in the playoffs. Bjugstad being expected to shuffle around that line and not get caved was a joke.

2) Essentially all of our impact wingers were injured making any effective combination in the top 6 difficult

3) Woodcroft took way, way, way too long to get the Draisaitl line out of the Eichel matchup despite it repeatedly getting steam rolled and the McLeod line actually handling it well once it got moved off of.

It's very possible, maybe even likely that we lose the series anyways even if the above were rectified (although I think we have a way better chance if we have a healthy Hyman and Kane regardless of the coaching issues), but coaching cost us dearly in that series. Quite a bit more than defense personnel issues.

 

[McDNicks17]

Ya. Would really hate to have a Xhekaj here. smh

​

Players like Xhekaj only exist on terrible hockey teams.

People tend to ignore how awful a player is at actually playing hockey on rebuilding teams.

The guy had his lunch fed to him playing some of the most sheltered third pairing minutes in the league.

 

[K1984]

Players like Xhekaj only exist on terrible hockey teams.

People tend to ignore how awful a player is at actually playing hockey on rebuilding teams.

The guy had his lunch fed to him playing some of the most sheltered third pairing minutes in the league.

If he didn't have a weird name, an interesting back story, play in Montreal and beat the piss out of people when he fights nobody would bat an eye at him.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

If the first three things you use to describe a player is big, mean and played at the world juniors, that player is 99% a guaranteed bust haha.

Seems strange to make such a definitive statement of bust about a prospect without any context. Munzenburger is a two time u20 tournament participant so there is a reasonable level of ability. Making a jump to North America he chose to be part of the beginning of an extensive rebuild in which his first year U Vermont team was grossly overmatched with a -42 goal share with meagre 59 goals scored. The team only improved marginal to -34 goal share in his second, sophomore year in North America.

As a freshman on a horribad cratered team it was reported he "was asked to do a lot on a young team that was often in over its head in 2021-22. Munzenberger routinely got tasked with shutting down the opposition’s best players, so personal success was limited. He had three assists and a minus-17 rating in 32 games." A reasoned scouting prospect assessment here: Scout's Analysis: Checking in on Oilers, Flames prospects playing in NCAA and Europe

There's a reasonable physical toolkit with this player, a hard, physical innate aspect to his game, and strong character to take on tough assignments that don't favour personal stats before team need. In interviews he seems articulate (multi-lingual) and to have a growth mindset that is open to learning and developing through a positive relationship with adversity. He wasn't drafted to be a point producing defensemen. In a convoluted, muddled covid draft year the Oilers took a player who was a national team level ability with a lot of the 'hidden' aptitude, competitiveness, and resiliency which is important to even reach pro level competition.

The hope that in four to five years there might be a bottom pairing, high character and hard game defenseman might emerge. This is a bet on a player's raw physical package, solid skating and high character, mental strength who plays a team game. Not one that will deliver counting points.

 

[McDNicks17]

Seems strange to make such a definitive statement of bust about a prospect without any context. Munzenburger is a two time u20 tournament participant so there is a reasonable level of ability. Making a jump to North America he chose to be part of the beginning of an extensive rebuild in which his first year U Vermont team was grossly overmatched with a -42 goal share with meagre 59 goals scored. The team only improved marginal to -34 goal share in his second, sophomore year in North America.

As a freshman on a horribad cratered team it was reported he "was asked to do a lot on a young team that was often in over its head in 2021-22. Munzenberger routinely got tasked with shutting down the opposition’s best players, so personal success was limited. He had three assists and a minus-17 rating in 32 games." A reasoned scouting prospect assessment here: Scout's Analysis: Checking in on Oilers, Flames prospects playing in NCAA and Europe

There's a reasonable physical toolkit with this player, a hard, physical innate aspect to his game, and strong character to take on tough assignments that don't favour personal stats before team need. In interviews he seems articulate (multi-lingual) and to have a growth mindset that is open to learning and developing through a positive relationship with adversity. He wasn't drafted to be a point producing defensemen. In a convoluted, muddled covid draft year the Oilers took a player who was a national team level ability with a lot of the 'hidden' aptitude, competitiveness, and resiliency which is important to even reach pro level competition.

The hope that in four to five years there might be a bottom pairing, high character and hard game defenseman might emerge. This is a bet on a player's raw physical package, solid skating and high character, mental strength who plays a team game. Not one that will deliver counting points.

You basically did what the other poster did with a bunch more words haha.

That's three paragraphs without a single mention of an actual hockey skill.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

You basically did what the other poster did with a bunch more words haha.

That's three paragraphs without a single mention of an actual hockey skill.

He played shutdown minutes as an 18 year old NCAA freshman. His team's d-corp by age was 22, 22, 24, 22, 23, 21, 23.

One year younger than Josh Manson who produced 4 points in 33 games as a freshman on a better Northeaster team. There's a path for players and most certainly defensemen who don't put up counting points.

Included a former pro scout's take on the player.

Context matters which you glaze over writing off a still 19 year old defenseman with multiple years of national team level performance.

Your take. hahaha 3 points, bust!

 

[McDNicks17]

He played shutdown minutes as an 18 year old NCAA freshman. His team's d-corp by age was 22, 22, 24, 22, 23, 21, 23.

One year younger than Josh Manson who produced 4 points in 33 games as a freshman on a better Northeaster team. There's a path for players and most certainly defensemen who don't put up counting points.

Included a former pro scout's take on the player.

Context matters which you glaze over writing off a still 19 year old defenseman with multiple years of national team level performance.

Your take. hahaha 3 points, bust!

Getting destroyed playing shutdown minutes isn't a positive.

My take has nothing to do with points. Watch him play. He can barely complete a pass at the NCAA level. You still need puck skill to be a third pairing defensemen in the NHL and Munzenberger doesn't have it.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Getting destroyed playing shutdown minutes isn't a positive.

My take has nothing to do with points. Watch him play. He can barely complete a pass at the NCAA level. You still need puck skill to be a third pairing defensemen in the NHL and Munzenberger doesn't have it.

Way premature to have a firm judgement on the player. He was solid in his final U20 tournament against peer competition. He jumped into a beginning stage rebuild college program and put into a shutdown role against opposition elites over teammates all multiple years older than him. Ability to handle the responsibly reinforces the character guys paid to draft places saw in him. His team scored 59 goals in 35 games. It had bigger problems than pushing a freshman into top defending situations.

NHL size with projectable weight, solid skating, and a hard, innate playing style. Raw putty in a less than ideal development situation. Write-off a teenager defenseman? I don't think that's a wise decision. He's always been a draft and park prospect that needs probably 4-5 years to see what you have.

 

[McDNicks17]

Way premature to have a firm judgement on the player. He was solid in his final U20 tournament against peer competition. He jumped into a beginning stage rebuild college program and put into a shutdown role against opposition elites over teammates all multiple years older than him. Ability to handle the responsibly reinforces the character guys paid to draft places saw in him. His team scored 59 goals in 35 games. It had bigger problems than pushing a freshman into top defending situations.

NHL size with projectable weight, solid skating, and a hard, innate playing style. Raw putty in a less than ideal development situation. Write-off a teenager defenseman? I don't think that's a wise decision. He's always been a draft and park prospect that needs probably 4-5 years to see what you have.

Which is why it's a terrible pick in the 3rd round. Wait 4-5 years to even see if he might miraculously become a low-end third pairing defenseman with limited puck skills.

You can get those players in the 7th round i.e. Desharnais or for league minimum in UFA. Give me someone that can actually handle the puck in the 3rd round.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Which is why it's a terrible pick in the 3rd round. Wait 4-5 years to even see if he might miraculously become a low-end third pairing defenseman with limited puck skills.

You can get those players in the 7th round i.e. Desharnais or for league minimum in UFA. Give me someone that can actually handle the puck in the 3rd round.

This organization still needs to grow out its prospect pool. Some risk projections are part of the equation. He's a multiple national team level player with size, an innate physical game, and playing against older peer competition. From a country that's starting to pick up its talent base with current generation players. Was viewed as a riser in his draft year U20 tournament: https://thehockeynews.com/news/world-juniors-who-helped-their-draft-stock

Reasonable risk reward where any third round and deeper pick is a crapshoot.

 

[McDNicks17]

This organization still needs to grow out its prospect pool. Some risk projections are part of the equation. He's a multiple national team level player with size, an innate physical game, and playing against older peer competition. From a country that's starting to pick up its talent base with current generation players. Was viewed as a riser in his draft year U20 tournament: https://thehockeynews.com/news/world-juniors-who-helped-their-draft-stock

Reasonable risk reward where any third round and deeper pick is a crapshoot.

Drafting prospects with enough skill to actually play in the NHL might be a better way to grow out your prospect pool.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Drafting prospects with enough skill to actually play in the NHL might be a better way to grow out your prospect pool.

He's a big physical defenseman who skates well and defends hard in high scoring areas of the ice. It's nice to think all NHL d-corps should be made up of finesse, puck mover types, however, you still need defenders who can clear blue paint areas, break cycles and play hard, grinding games that make life difficult for opposition to get into those prime scoring areas. Munzenberger is a reasonable project with size, solid skating and hard defending style. Reasonable for an organization that lost its best one in Larsson and spun around with a soft, one dimensional d-corp.

Reasonable bet for a third round draft pick. A right off at 19? Naw.

 

[McDNicks17]

He's a big physical defenseman who skates well and defends hard in high scoring areas of the ice. It's nice to think all NHL d-corps should be made up of finesse, puck mover types, however, you still need defenders who can clear blue paint areas, break cycles and play hard, grinding games that make life difficult for opposition to get into those prime scoring areas. Munzenberger is a reasonable project with size, solid skating and hard defending style. Reasonable for an organization that lost its best one in Larsson and spun around with a soft, one dimensional d-corp.

Reasonable bet for a third round draft pick. A right off at 19? Naw.

Being able to move the puck doesn't make you a "finesse puck-mover". It's a requirement in today's game even for defensive defensemen.

A guy who can't even move the puck at the NCAA level doesn't have a chance to play in the NHL.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Being able to move the puck doesn't make you a "finesse puck-mover". It's a requirement in today's game even for defensive defensemen.

A guy who can't even move the puck at the NCAA level doesn't have a chance to play in the NHL.

He was an 18 year old first year in North American on a d-corp that ranged from 22 and older. Yet he was trusted to play against top line competition on a team that collectively was seal clubbed. He improved as a sophomore on a marginally better team to -9 with a team goal share of -34 and winning % of .375. Think there's anyone that escapes unscathed with those team results let alone a teenager defender? It's a team that scored under 2 goals a game. Who's he going to pass to? The leading scorer who had 19 points in 35 games I guess.

Have to isolate this guy's development within context of a trainwreck program (which just tied the can to the guy that recruited him). There's not going to be an exponential growth within the reality of this program's early rebuild chaos.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Does evil exist?
The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists? A student bravely replied, "Yes, he did!"

"God created everything? The professor asked.

"Yes sir", the student replied.

The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil". The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?"

"Of course", replied the professor.

The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question.

The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."

The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"

The professor responded, "Of course it does."

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

The young man's name — Dwayne Roloson.

Yes but does a bear shit in the woods?

 

[Jumptheshark]

I’ll take skill over size. Patrick Roy is a moron

He is too busy polishing his cup rings to respond