RFA standoff summer 2019

[LadyStanley]

Inside the RFA standoff and why it impacts nearly every NHL...

Paywall. Athletic looks at the number of key RFA players still unsigned about a month out from training camp.

“Have you ever seen anything like this?” Asked one general manager on Wednesday.

“I hate the waiting game,” said another GM. “It shouldn’t take that long.”

“It’s weird, yes,” said a veteran agent. “There’s more at stake every year because of the salary cap issues. It’s catching up with people signing players long term in this round of the CBA. The cycle is catching up with teams. And the thing is, it’s going to get worse next year.”

Why? Part of it is the never ending saga of players wanting huge contracts and teams with limited budgets. Sometimes it might be how a contract is set up (signing bonuses "up front" and big % might be doable for cash generating team like TML vs budget conscious team). There also seem to be a few "key" players that other teams/players are waiting to sign to set the market.

And more pressure next off season.

Click to read more...

 

[justafan22]

I wonder if in the new CBA we see RFAs be immediately eligible for arbitration if you've put in 3 years of NHL service.

 

[StreetHawk]

I wonder if in the new CBA we see RFAs be immediately eligible for arbitration if you've put in 3 years of NHL service.

I’m of the mindset as a fan that I rather see the players who produce get compensated for their production.

So if the nhl is underpaying their rfas as they exit elc and trying to lock up a couple of ufa years then when they finally hit ufa at 28/29 they will go for max term and sign until they are 36. So the teams have to pay big cap hits for declining years aka the 2016 ufa class.

See what each side is willing to trade off in the next cba.

 

[tony d]

It's certainly a waiting game right now. To bad too because a lot of great RFA talent still out there. Hope the ball gets rolling soon with some of these guys getting signed.

 

[LadyStanley]

I'm thinking not much will happen until Labor Day (weekend) ish. Then it'll be about a week before training camp (US) NHL/NHLPA media tour, etc.

 

[LadyStanley]

Rantanen 'not stressful' about lack of contract with Avalanche

"Nothing's wrong; there's still one month until [training] camp starts," the 22-year-old restricted free agent forward said Friday at the Finnish Alumni All-Star Game in Lahti, Finland. "I know what's happening, but I'm not stressful. There are a lot of players who are in the same situation."
...
Avalanche general manager Joe Sakic said Friday that contract talks with Rantanen should get going once training camp gets closer.

More proof that players and GMs aren't panicking (yet ).

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I wonder if in the new CBA we see RFAs be immediately eligible for arbitration if you've put in 3 years of NHL service.

The players would certainly love to have that. The owners would certainly not. For the players to get it, I'm curious what they're going to give up - because given where the owners stand on arbitration in general, the players are probably going to have to give up quite a bit.

 

[justafan22]

The players would certainly love to have that. The owners would certainly not. For the players to get it, I'm curious what they're going to give up - because given where the owners stand on arbitration in general, the players are probably going to have to give up quite a bit.

Wonder if the abolition of offer sheets could lead to it.

 

[StreetHawk]

The players would certainly love to have that. The owners would certainly not. For the players to get it, I'm curious what they're going to give up - because given where the owners stand on arbitration in general, the players are probably going to have to give up quite a bit.

What good does arbitration do for the high end rfa? Arbitration only awards 1-2 year contracts. None of marner, Rantanen, tkachuk are thinking that short term a deal.

It helps the likes of a Colin White who has not yet proven himself. Or a Nick Ritchie who had to sign a 3 year term last summer because they didn’t have arbitration rights.

 

[LadyStanley]

If we're changing the CBA to allow exiting-ELS players arbitration rights, perhaps one option can be a max length contract.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Wonder if the abolition of offer sheets could lead to it.

Doubtful. I don't think the owners give a rip about losing offer sheets; they'd chalk that concession up and put it in their pocket and ask, "what else are you going to give up?"

What good does arbitration do for the high end rfa? Arbitration only awards 1-2 year contracts. None of marner, Rantanen, tkachuk are thinking that short term a deal.

It helps the likes of a Colin White who has not yet proven himself. Or a Nick Ritchie who had to sign a 3 year term last summer because they didn’t have arbitration rights.

For every Marner, Rantanen or Tkachuk there's a bunch of guys who play out their ELC, haven't cracked the NHL or barely cracked it but clearly aren't sitting on an NHL roster spot going into training camp, and are waiting for a qualifying offer to get extended so they can sign it and be under contract for another year - and I don't hear anyone pining away for expanded rights/values for those guys. And, I can guarantee the owners aren't throwing open the cupboards to all those guys for the sake of a few high-end guys coming out of their ELCs every year.

If you're a high-end guy without arbitration rights, you've got two choices: sit and try to angle for a longer-term deal for dollars you want, or strike 1-year deal and use arbitration the next season to go after the dollars you think you're worth. Don't like those options? Sorry, life isn't fair.

 

[LadyStanley]

NHL's RFA problem is more about the GMs, not the players

Lambert argues that the power has shifted to the RFAs and GMs have to learn to deal with it.

So for all the grumbling about these guys resetting the market for RFAs and the Death of the Second Contract, you’d have a hard time arguing they’re not going to meet or exceed the value of their deals. Why? Because as the cap grows and 21- and 22-year-olds sign for big money, they’re doing so for the primes of their careers and maybe a couple years after, depending on the term. There’s a growing understanding in the league that really good players who have “only” been in the league two or three years can be — and often are — more valuable than really good players hitting UFA status at 27 and 28.

The former have room to grow, the latter not so much. It’s that simple. So while people around the league apparently feel more than welcome to complain behind demands of anonymity about Mitch Marner trying to get a double-digit AAV, none did the same when Florida gave Sergei Bobrovsky a $10-million AAV. But by the time Marner’s eventual deal ends, which will have been more “worth it” to the team giving out that deal? I have a guess!

What GMs are actually mad about is that they have to change the way they’ve done business forever. They can no longer rely on cronyism and whataboutism to get guys in their early 20s to take considerably less than they’re worth just so they can give some 29-year-old too much money for the next six years. Just because Morgan Rielly or Nazem Kadri took less than they deserved doesn’t mean Matthews, Nylander or Marner should.

YMMV, GMs.

 

[powerstuck]

What good does arbitration do for the high end rfa? Arbitration only awards 1-2 year contracts. None of marner, Rantanen, tkachuk are thinking that short term a deal.

It helps the likes of a Colin White who has not yet proven himself. Or a Nick Ritchie who had to sign a 3 year term last summer because they didn’t have arbitration rights.

Well what power current RFA status gives to players ? Sit out and lose a whole year, on a career that rarely reaches 20 years...that's a lot of time and money lost.

The issue is and will remain to be that RFA's when they hit their status are usually at the beginning of their prime years. At 27-28 years, players don't get better, they stay at top for a year or two and then decline.

Basically teams are using players at credit...but credit players have no guarantee they will ever get back. Give us 5 of your best years, and then maybe later on you will get paid for what your are currently worth.

Then you have all those teams that may give a fair contract but cap wise cannot. Well, arbitration at least gives everyone a chance to redo their business in a year or two.

 

[82Ninety42011]

It's all posturing soon as one RFA out of the big 5 or so sign most will follow suit. Marner is the one that will take the longest as it's personal with him it seems.

 

[cobra427]

Under the CBA, RFA's have no rights. The NHLPA negotiated rights for UFA's. Most NHL players are in their RFA years and approaching UFA years. There is zero chance those players, and they control the voting, are going to give up any UFA rights to help out 21 year olds. If RFA's want more rights, the owners will expect concessions from the UFA's.

The really good RFA's are the ones that get to play for less than what they would get in the open market in this system, they are the sacrificial lamb. The GM's can wait them out. The players can't afford to lose a year of earnings in a short career, it hurts them way more than it would TML if Marner sits as an example.

 

[LadyStanley]

Paywall.

One week until camp opens. And still a number of high profile RFAs unsigned.

LeBrun says it's term as the biggest sticking point.

 

[LadyStanley]

Ludicrous.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Under the CBA, RFA's have no rights. The NHLPA negotiated rights for UFA's.

Really? No rights? None? At all?

If you were to say "RFAs coming off their entry-level contracts who aren't eligible for arbitration," you'd have a much bigger point. [And I'd still say you're wrong.] No, RFAs don't have the ability to negotiate with every other team and sign a contract and go to whoever wants them, with no compensation due to the prior team [like UFAs have], but ......... there's a 3-word sentence I keep using repeatedly, but for some very selective reason I can't remember. Well, I'm sure someone will know it and say it.

 

[LadyStanley]

Friedman has some updates on most of the high profile RFAs. With an interesting story (of one player who held out through most of camp, but was ready to go when the puck dropped for reals.)

 

[cobra427]

Really? No rights? None? At all?

If you were to say "RFAs coming off their entry-level contracts who aren't eligible for arbitration," you'd have a much bigger point. [And I'd still say you're wrong.] No, RFAs don't have the ability to negotiate with every other team and sign a contract and go to whoever wants them, with no compensation due to the prior team [like UFAs have], but ......... there's a 3-word sentence I keep using repeatedly, but for some very selective reason I can't remember. Well, I'm sure someone will know it and say it.

They have a right to sit out but thats about it. Basically no rights. The GM's can just wait them out, they have all the power.

 

[mouser]

They have a right to sit out but thats about it. Basically no rights. The GM's can just wait them out, they have all the power.

And yet RFA’s have in general been getting proportionally bigger and bigger deals in recent years.

The longest wait out we have in recent history is Nylander, which saw him eventually be paid more then the team reportedly offered before the start of the season.

 

[cobra427]

And yet RFA’s have in general been getting proportionally bigger and bigger deals in recent years.

The longest wait out we have in recent history is Nylander, which saw him eventually be paid more then the team reportedly offered before the start of the season.

TML caved, made a mistake in retrospect. Watch what happens with this year, GM's saw that. They will play hard ball now, and that is what you are seeing. Be prepared for much longer hold outs and or team friendly deals.

 

[Devilsfan118]

I think we see a lot of these elite level guys sign ridiculous bridge deals - in the realm of 3 x 9-10M - which will completely change the game for NHL GMs. Players coming off ELCs will be a lot less valuable than before, as far as being a cheap talented asset.

I also think we see an unprecedented trend where players accept/sign the QO in their 4th year to walk themselves right to free agency.

 

[StreetHawk]

If you dig into the details of payment structure of ufa deals the top end players get 8 figures for the first 3-4 years of their ufa deal and then get paid a lot less in the final 2-3 years of the deal to coincide with expected drop in production.

So if you’re going to hit ufa at 26/27 only sell those years for a premium.

 

[LadyStanley]

I think we see a lot of these elite level guys sign ridiculous bridge deals - in the realm of 3 x 9-10M - which will completely change the game for NHL GMs. Players coming off ELCs will be a lot less valuable than before, as far as being a cheap talented asset.

I also think we see an unprecedented trend where players accept/sign the QO in their 4th year to walk themselves right to free agency.

I'm thinking more like the Sharks' Meier. 3 year deal, AAV $6m, but last year is $10m (so his QO will be $10m).