RFA Results

[Dr.Sens(e)]

since the trade happened before it was announced that Hale was signed to an offer sheet, wouldnt it make it my responsibility to match the offer.. like when Bernier was traded only to recieve an offer sheet 48 hours after this is the same thing with hale except instead of 48 hours it was more like 6?

David Hale/Brandon Crombeen deal was approved at 11:29am ET on Wednesday July 17th

David Hale's offer sheet became official at 4:10pm ET on Wednesday July 17th

wouldn't that deem the trade official by league officials since he was moved 4 hours and 41 minutes before his offer sheet was made by Carolina?

If so Phoenix matches Carolina's offer.. i think it should at the very least be discussed because the trade was made official by the league before the offer sheet was signed, the exact same thing happened to Bernier.

If the deal was in fact confirmed by both General Managers, then yes, it could go through. Forward the correspondance to Reggie and we'll discuss internally.

 

[Dryden]

Here's a question to you Rob: Clearly year after year Buffalo, New Jersey, Tampa and now Florida put up strong competitive teams and finish at or near the top of the league while your team may not do as well and while competitive is fairly middle of the pack. Why even bother then? If your just going to be a middle of the pack team what's the point in it? Shouldn't you by say December stop submitting lines, quit making trades and what not? You've already been beaten so what's the point of doing it?

Guys in the league would then call you Auto-line Robb cause clearly half his team is injured and the poor sim guy has to submit lines for you like he's your *****...i mean AGM. (sorry Matt). Every year the Blues hand it to the Western Conference...maybe we should all take the "SMART APPROACH" and fold it in too.

Or maybe every poker player who has a losing hand should fold it in because they are down to a 10 per cent chance and they may not hit that card on the river. Have you heard of any given Sunday? Well on any given Sunday L.A may have not taken that deal. But yeah your right it's a stupid offer and you have every opportunity to sit at your computer and rip apart every GM and flame them for making an atempt. Yes we are all ****ing stupid. But we enjoy it. We get a kick out of participating unlike some who fold up like a cheap suit year after year come December when they are out of it

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

Well, for one, it puts the matching team in a position where the player can't be traded to any team other than the team that makes the offer. So in effect, the offering team gets full trade negotiating rights for that player if the matching team is willing to deal him at some point in the season. There are benefits to it.

ok, this is a reason I can buy ... adds tremendous value to the process ... i stand corrected.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

Here's a question to you Rob: Clearly year after year Buffalo, New Jersey, Tampa and now Florida put up strong competitive teams and finish at or near the top of the league while your team may not do as well and while competitive is fairly middle of the pack. Why even bother then? If your just going to be a middle of the pack team what's the point in it? Shouldn't you by say December stop submitting lines, quit making trades and what not? You've already been beaten so what's the point of doing it?

Guys in the league would then call you Auto-line Robb cause clearly half his team is injured and the poor sim guy has to submit lines for you like he's your *****...i mean AGM. (sorry Matt). Every year the Blues hand it to the Western Conference...maybe we should all take the "SMART APPROACH" and fold it in too.

Or maybe every poker player who has a losing hand should fold it in because they are down to a 10 per cent chance and they may not hit that card on the river. Have you heard of any given Sunday? Well on any given Sunday L.A may have not taken that deal. But yeah your right it's a stupid offer and you have every opportunity to sit at your computer and rip apart every GM and flame them for making an atempt. Yes we are all ****ing stupid. But we enjoy it. We get a kick out of participating unlike some who fold up like a cheap suit year after year come December when they are out of it

no i dont get your point ... i finished ahead of the Florida team and right behind the Devils in the standings. who says fold up your tent?

anyhow, clearly i hit a nerve and i shouldnt have used the word stupid.

 

[The old geezer]

First off Detroit will not be matching McClement. Heck he was offered in trade for a 3rd rounder on draft day a month ago and you could have signed him for less than 2 million. Will I take a 2nd rounder? Duh ... yes!

As for the rest I guess I'm throwing gas on the fire here but I thought offer sheets would only be accepted if they were reasonably high for the player. The reason for that was we had some suspected collusion a few years back with a particular GM submitting low QO offers that would be matched to help buddies out. Not suggesting this is the case but I confess the Hale offer in particular looked ridiculously low to have been accepted given my perception on what would have been an acceptable RFA offer sheet.

 

[MatthewFlames]

First off Detroit will not be matching McClement. Heck he was offered in trade for a 3rd rounder on draft day a month ago and you could have signed him for less than 2 million. Will I take a 2nd rounder? Duh ... yes!

As for the rest I guess I'm throwing gas on the fire here but I thought offer sheets would only be accepted if they were reasonably high for the player. The reason for that was we had some suspected collusion a few years back with a particular GM submitting low QO offers that would be matched to help buddies out. Not suggesting this is the case but I confess the Hale offer in particular looked ridiculously low to have been accepted given my perception on what would have been an acceptable RFA offer sheet.

I don't have a problem per se with Hale accepting the offer sheet despite the lowball offer but your point is a good one.

My argument is that at 660K there is no reasonable way the GM wouldn't match especially since they get NO compensation in return - that indication is pretty clear when the GM bothered to qualify the player that they thought he wasn't worth letting the player became a UFA.

Last year I did let several minor leaguers become UFA's and then re-signed them to league minimum one year deals. I qualified those players this year because they made NHL debuts this past season. Sean's point about exclusive negotiating rights makes sense - but since Hale has been on the trade block for months and Dion's never made one approach I doubt thats the reason. Besides - now I'm po'd and there is no way I'd trade him to you Mr. AC.

I'm hoping the league sides with Ryan in that the trade was completed before the RFA announcement and it doesn't affect Dion - he just has exclusive negotiating rights with a different GM since Ryan or I will both match the Hale outcome no matter the result of the leagues decision. In fact given my mood over it he might even have more luck with Ryan than me in negotiating a trade.

Who knew that David Hale would become the most desired and fought over player this free agency?

And I'm not disputing the RFA process. It's kinda fun when we have the same disputes as the NHL. I have been both a loser and winner in the past. I lost Kovalchuk et al but I got Iginla that way the following year.

Even this year it's played out very well in this case over Mlilan Jurcina. I didn't feel he as worth a whole big chunk of salary as my 7th Dman - but I couldn't drum up much interest in trade talk - especially not a 2nd rounder. Now the bar has been set and it's not as high as I might have expected. I have an interesting choice to make whether I choose to match or not, or to try to trade to Greg at a different value. I feel like the process worked for me much in the way Robb alluded to with the contracts he's been able to get for his RFA's in the past.

 

[MatthewFlames]

Guys in the league would then call you Auto-line Robb cause clearly half his team is injured and the poor sim guy has to submit lines for you like he's your *****...i mean AGM. (sorry Matt).

Not that I really want to step into this dispute... but I must defend Robb in that both he and his AGM regularly submitted lines this past season and that the Pens were easily in the top 15 amongst GM's who did submit. There are far more GM's worthy of the Auto-Line title or worse the total non-submission of lines titles during my tenure as Sim dude.

 

[MatthewFlames]

If the deal was in fact confirmed by both General Managers, then yes, it could go through. Forward the correspondance to Reggie and we'll discuss internally.

Forwarded. And not only did both GM's confirm but I believe that even Claudio's approval came several hours before the announcement of RFA's.

 

[SPG]

Forwarded. And not only did both GM's confirm but I believe that even Claudio's approval came several hours before the announcement of RFA's.

I can vouch for that. I got the approval a day or so before hearing about the offer sheet.

 

[Dryden]

Not that I really want to step into this dispute... but I must defend Robb in that both he and his AGM regularly submitted lines this past season and that the Pens were easily in the top 15 amongst GM's who did submit. There are far more GM's worthy of the Auto-Line title or worse the total non-submission of lines titles during my tenure as Sim dude.

Well it was you who gave him the title of Auto-line Robb. Look it up its there in the forums.

 

[Vaive-Alive]

I think you two need to kiss and make-up.

 

[Dryden]

i'd give up drinking beer first

 

[Vaive-Alive]

Ye gods - thats severe.

 

[MatthewFlames]

Well it was you who gave him the title of Auto-line Robb. Look it up its there in the forums.

I know - it was just a jibe when I called him that - based on his previous performance. Wanted to set the record straight about this past season that's all.

 

[Hossa]

They don't work often, but they have worked for some pretty big names out there.... Kovalchuk, Luongo...

I got Kaberle through an RFA offer sheet - and it was a trade that was negotiated, not just compensation.

 

[Toronto_AGM_Adil]

i'd give up drinking beer first

Ye gods - thats severe.

Guess the severity depends on the brand of beer he drinks

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

Well it was you who gave him the title of Auto-line Robb. Look it up its there in the forums.

you are living in the past ... that was a few seasons ago.

is that all you got? that one season I used autolines?

move along man

 

[spintheblackcircle]

So, ummm...as a member of the league AND a moderator here.......can we drop the personal comments? If you have them, send PM's please......thanks

Greg

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

First off Detroit will not be matching McClement. Heck he was offered in trade for a 3rd rounder on draft day a month ago and you could have signed him for less than 2 million. Will I take a 2nd rounder? Duh ... yes!

As for the rest I guess I'm throwing gas on the fire here but I thought offer sheets would only be accepted if they were reasonably high for the player. The reason for that was we had some suspected collusion a few years back with a particular GM submitting low QO offers that would be matched to help buddies out. Not suggesting this is the case but I confess the Hale offer in particular looked ridiculously low to have been accepted given my perception on what would have been an acceptable RFA offer sheet.

The majority of offer sheets were not signed, including many of the aforementioned players. For those lower offer sheets signed, they were simply much more than the QO the player had received. The difference between $500k-$550k QO and a $660k deal may not sound like a lot, but it is close to a 25% difference. As for Hale, every team in the league had an opportunity to put forward an offer sheet, and only one did. Given his only other alternative is to accept the QO, signing the offer sheet obviously makes sense. In the end, when a RFA goes through free agency without a decent offer, it quite naturally puts more bargaining power in the hands of the GM (as it should). That is the risk / reward of letting a RFA test the market. However, for guys like Weiss, Avery, Tanguay and the more established veterans, we'll see whether a more lucrative offer comes forward once the UFA's are all done. If not, they will naturally be a little more open to signing a potentially "below NHL market" short-term deal with their current team.

 

[SPG]

Looks like we have our own HFNHL version of Burke/Lowe

 

[Dryden]

oh please can I be Lowe

 

[SPG]

oh please can I be Lowe

Well you're the one with the offer sheet, so I'd say that'd make you Lowe by default

 

[Default101]

Forwarded. And not only did both GM's confirm but I believe that even Claudio's approval came several hours before the announcement of RFA's.

That was actually my arguing point, i felt that we had a real case there because the league had approved it before the offer sheet was announced I was totally unaware of wether or not Hale would be given an offer sheet at the time of league approval just like Mark Bell when I acquired him.

 

[SensGod]

Last year I lost Schubert to a ludicrous RFA offer sheet...I walked away giggling when I got the 2nd rounder for him. I was REALLY upset about it...but I got over it eventually.

Time heals all wounds...and if I don't get a 2nd top 4 dman as a UFA...I'll sure I'll have to make RFA offers and end up passing off my PO'd mood from last year onto another GM.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Last year I lost Schubert to a ludicrous RFA offer sheet...I walked away giggling when I got the 2nd rounder for him. I was REALLY upset about it...but I got over it eventually.

I'd do it again.

Signed,

Ludicrous