Replay/Challenge Discussion: (or from another angle) Discussion: Challenge/Replay

[g00n]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-frustrated-by-goaltender-interference-calls/

CI story that documents the issues the Caps have had with these calls (includes vids)

 

[g00n]

Gracias.

So as I said before, when Williams collided with Reimer, he (Williams) was not in the blue paint. He was prevented from backing away from the goalie and in fact pushed into the crease by the Leafs player, long after Williams ran into Reimer.

Yeah, the only argument for interference there is that JW so disrupted and disoriented Reimer that he was left out of position for the Ovechkin shot, which seems dubious. Reimer had time and wherewithal to give JW a shove and reset his pads/skates before the shot, as well as see it with clear hands/arms/stick. He was not impeded by JW during that shot or even right before it. Hell, JW was even clearly trying to sidestep Reimer but was prevented from doing so by the Leafs defender, as you said.

If goals are disallowed because goaltenders choose to shove passing players, then what? This decision makes the argument that any contact with the goaltender renders any shot taken in the next few seconds invalid.

Seems like a hockey play to me.

 

[Hivemind]

Even if the Caps are getting hosed, the replay is a good thing. It's absurd how long overdue this was. It needs to be expanded to more calls (namely delay of game/pucks touching the glass).

 

[ChibiPooky]

I get it for the fans though. They saw an awesome goal from the franchise's best and most popular player ever waived off for a questionable reason, when this franchise has a history of getting ****ed in the playoffs on similar plays.

The fanbase might seem overly sensitive, but the team has clearly been screwed by officiating on multiple occasions, so I'm inclined to give them a pass.

Not just that, it was a record-setting goal too. I can see why it was disallowed, but I don't like that standard. It puts way too much onus on the offensive player, especially when most of the time it's not fully in his control.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Ovi credited with the primary assist on NB's game tying goal upon review.

 

[Calicaps]

Even if the Caps are getting hosed, the replay is a good thing. It's absurd how long overdue this was. It needs to be expanded to more calls (namely delay of game/pucks touching the glass).

I agree that the coaches challenge, in and of itself, is a good thing.

The related but separate issue is what qualifies as goalie interference. This needs to be much more consistently enforced if the review is to work as intended.

I am not proposing we go back to the era of running goalies for sport, but Tomas Holmstrom seriously couldn't even play the game today, and IMHO that's a loss for hockey.

Contemporary goalies are big strong men, 6 foot plus for the most part. They don't need to be treated with this degree of kid gloves.

 

[Mothra]

seems to me if you play your D a foot or maybe two in front of your goalie you are preventing the opposition from setting up in front of the goalie (and behind the D) now...with this stupid challenge system if you try to squeeze behind the D and the goalie is at the edge of the crease he will get lightly touched, nullifying any goal...as long as the team still has a timeout of course

its so effn stupid...especially when they say they want/need to increase scoring

In general I have a issue with replay in most/all sports. Not that there is replay...but how its implemented. The reasoning is always "its important to get the call right" and I agree....so why turn it into a strategy? If the reasoning behind replay in sports is to get it right then it should not have to be some strategic move by the coach. You cant say the most important thing is getting it right and then say "well sorry, you dont have any timeouts/challenges left...so we cant get it right this time"

 

[Calicaps]

seems to me if you play your D a foot or maybe two in front of your goalie you are preventing the opposition from setting up in front of the goalie (and behind the D) now...with this stupid challenge system if you try to squeeze behind the D and the goalie is at the edge of the crease he will get lightly touched, nullifying any goal...as long as the team still has a timeout of course

its so effn stupid...especially when they say they want/need to increase scoring

In general I have a issue with replay in most/all sports. Not that there is replay...but how its implemented. The reasoning is always "its important to get the call right" and I agree....so why turn it into a strategy? If the reasoning behind replay in sports is to get it right then it should not have to be some strategic move by the coach. You cant say the most important thing is getting it right and then say "well sorry, you dont have any timeouts/challenges left...so we cant get it right this time"

Great post.

Agree with pretty much everything about the D and goalie interference.

The only question I have on the rest is, especially in a fast-moving game like hockey, what's the alternative? Review every play or at least every goal for every possible error, either by letting coaches challenge as much as they want or by making it automatic? The game would go on forever. I think the coach's challenge approach at least identifies those moments when there's significant enough doubt to risk something to have it double checked.

 

[Mothra]

Great post.

Agree with pretty much everything about the D and goalie interference.

The only question I have on the rest is, especially in a fast-moving game like hockey, what's the alternative? Review every play or at least every goal for every possible error, either by letting coaches challenge as much as they want or by making it automatic? The game would go on forever. I think the coach's challenge approach at least identifies those moments when there's significant enough doubt to risk something to have it double checked.

To me, if they just review goals automatically like they have been (is it in the net/cross the line, or not) thats enough.

I really dont care if a guy is offsides and its so close you have to slow it down in replay to make sure, just play the game. The obvious missed Leon Stickle type offsides calls are pretty rare IMO..as often as they miss an offsides call (by not calling offsides) they probably miss it the other way and call offsides when it wasnt....you just deal with it and move on

game is played by humans, coached by humans, and officiated by humans. The players make mistakes, the coaches make mistakes, and so do the zebras.

 

[Calicaps]

To me, if they just review goals automatically like they have been (is it in the net/cross the line, or not) thats enough.

I really dont care if a guy is offsides and its so close you have to slow it down in replay to make sure, just play the game. The obvious missed Leon Stickle type offsides calls are pretty rare IMO..as often as they miss an offsides call (by not calling offsides) they probably miss it the other way and call offsides when it wasnt....you just deal with it and move on

game is played by humans, coached by humans, and officiated by humans. The players make mistakes, the coaches make mistakes, and so do the zebras.

Fair enough. But then you live with the Ward no-goal in the playoffs, too, which had serious consequences for this team.

 

[Mothra]

Fair enough. But then you live with the Ward no-goal in the playoffs, too, which had serious consequences for this team.

you live with it anyway.....its not as if any of these replay systems get it right all the time. Again not saying there shouldnt be relay but IMO it should be just on goals, like they have been doing lately. I will include the plays that arent called goals on the ice but at the next stoppage they review. For me, thats enough

using offsides as my example again...it can be a blown call call if they call offsides and it isnt, or they dont call offsides and it actually is. Replay only addresses one of those situations

 

[g00n]

Welp, add another one to the list (OT loss to Jets). Hard to say if this was right or wrong, but as was noted it's at least as close as the Williams play that overturned one of Ovie's record breaking goals.

 

[Calicaps]

Welp, add another one to the list (OT loss to Jets). Hard to say if this was right or wrong, but as was noted it's at least as close as the Williams play that overturned one of Ovie's record breaking goals.

I think there was a clearer image of Williams' skate. It was very obviously off the ice. This one, less conclusive. But if they're gonna have the challenge as an option, they need certain camera angles to be a given. Along the blue lines seems an obvious one.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

They should just get rid of the offside ruling in the challenge

 

[TeamBandWagon]

They should just get rid of the offside ruling in the challenge

This ^ X a lot.

 

[RandyHolt]

I hate that offsides can reviewed so long after the fact.

I hate that it can even be reviewed.

I also hate that it will take the league 5 maybe 10 years to install a camera directly along the blues to eliminate the guesswork. Heck. I am not sure the NFL has even gotten a perfectly straight camera shot down the endzone / LOS in 15 years, it's always off.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I hate that offsides can reviewed so long after the fact.

I hate that it can even be reviewed.

I also hate that it will take the league 5 maybe 10 years to install a camera directly along the blues to eliminate the guesswork. Heck. I am not sure the NFL has even gotten a perfectly straight camera shot down the endzone / LOS in 15 years, it's always off.

Why can't they put a HD camera inside the boards exactly at the blue line? They should also consider updating some of their cameras, especially the overhead camera over the crossbar. This isn't 2005 FFS, we have cameras of very high resolution capable of filming at more than 30 FPS

 

[Calicaps]

I hate that offsides can reviewed so long after the fact.

I hate that it can even be reviewed.

I also hate that it will take the league 5 maybe 10 years to install a camera directly along the blues to eliminate the guesswork. Heck. I am not sure the NFL has even gotten a perfectly straight camera shot down the endzone / LOS in 15 years, it's always off.

Actually the HNIC guys were just saying the blueline camera idea is on the agenda for the upcoming Board of Govs meeting. So there may be some hope.

Trotz was deriding the use of the tiny tablet screen during his presser tonight so hopefully they'll change that up too.

 

[trick9]

Seriously does it cost too much to put a proper camera in there to define the offsides? I mean in soccer with the new rule (whether the ball crosses the goal line) the ruling is obvious after 20-second review. It leaves zero doubt about it, and with the money going around in the NHL it's silly that they don't have it yet.

 

[g00n]

I just don't think they anticipated any of this. In the offseason they're going to have to confront these problems and decide if they want to scrap it, or invest more in it.

 

[trick9]

I just don't think they anticipated any of this. In the offseason they're going to have to confront these problems and decide if they want to scrap it, or invest more in it.

Makes sense, but still...

You just know that Caps in the playoffs will find themselves on the wrong end of these calls. With the luck that's around this franchise and NHL's tendency to change the rules after Caps get screwed, you can only fear the worst.

 

[g00n]

Makes sense, but still...

You just know that Caps in the playoffs will find themselves on the wrong end of these calls. With the luck that's around this franchise and NHL's tendency to change the rules after Caps get screwed, you can only fear the worst.

Yeah, and I was thinking as I typed that, they're going to have to make a decision before the playoffs. If they want to keep this review process they can't go into the playoffs with a system this flawed.

 

[RandyHolt]

Hock is a really fast game. Blown offsides calls happen, and they should even out among all teams.

When in doubt, just let play continue. And I think that is what they do.

I cannot recall a blown offside deciding a big game since.... well... Easter something.

Somehow, we always seem to get screwed just a little bit more than the other teams. Yeah I know every teams fans say that.

 

[Hivemind]

Keep the replay/challenge, just figure out how to do it better. That may involve actually improving the rules for the plays they're reviewing.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Yeah, and I was thinking as I typed that, they're going to have to make a decision before the playoffs. If they want to keep this review process they can't go into the playoffs with a system this flawed.

I hope they ditch the challenge for the playoffs, it would probably overturn a Williams Game 7 OT goal, only to be scored on right after, that's how cursed we are