Reirden, Granato, J. Martin Discussion

[theicebox]

So, it is basically unanimous on this board that Bylsma should and will be fired. If not, the traffic to our board next year will likely be significantly less busy.

I thought it would be interesting to collect insights from the board on the assistants, particularly Reirden and Granato, but also Martin. Any good/bad stories about their time behind the bench (or in the press box) with the Penguins?

Personally, I find Reirden to be suspect, given our defensive woes. For whatever reason, I think Granato is fine and fell victim to being led by a bad and incompetent coach/superior (not in quality, but title), and Granato would succeed as a HC (again) elsewhere.

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[Captain Hook]

Granato handled the PK unit which seemed to always be very good regardless of how many injuries happened or who played on it. The only slight concern I have is that Adams and Glass always had to be out there on the PK and I wonder if Granato was pushing for those guys on the PK or if Bylsma would stick Adams and Glass in the lineup and Granato just had to make due with them on the PK. I wouldn't mind him being kept but I don't care if he goes either.

Reirden needs to go though. I haven't seen anything great out of him.

 

[Vujtek]

Granato handled the PK unit which seemed to always be very good regardless of how many injuries happened or who played on it. The only slight concern I have is that Adams and Glass always had to be out there on the PK and I wonder if Granato was pushing for those guys on the PK or if Bylsma would stick Adams and Glass in the lineup and Granato just had to make due with them on the PK. I wouldn't mind him being kept but I don't care if he goes either.

Reirden needs to go though. I haven't seen anything great out of him.

The PK is always horrendous against Flyers. This year it's only 10th best in the playoffs. Granato is definitely part of the problem and not a solution in getting better. He needs to go.

Personally, I find Reirden to be suspect, given our defensive woes. For whatever reason, I think Granato is fine and fell victim to being led by a bad and incompetent coach/superior (not in quality, but title), and Granato would succeed as a HC (again) elsewhere.

Granato was absolutely horrendous as a head coach for Avs. They had one of the best teams in the last decade and he blew it up. Completely mishandled a Hall of Famer, Teemu Selänne. Wouldn't surprise me at all if Granato was telling Bylsma how to utilize Iggy last season.

As head coaches, Bylsma >>> Granato.

 

[cygnus47]

I'm all for brand new start. The new GM should have a vision for that team and the franchise should reflect that vision. He should pick a coach who can coach a team built to fit with that vision and that coach should bring assistants who can help him craft that vision consistently.

My impression of the coaches is that they were supplicants to Bylsma, but that may have been a product of their loyalty rather than a reflection on their true opinion. Regardless, I'm fine if literally everything about this franchise outside of Sid and Geno changes so.... to hell with the coaches!

 

[Ogrezilla]

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I read that last part like Conan the Barbarian, cygnus.

Granato does some things well. The PK has it's moments in the sun. At least in the regular season. It seems like it gets exposed in the playoffs. So does everything on this team. But he absolutely isn't anything to write home about or make concessions for. No reason to keep him around.

Reirden requires even less thought. Why is this guy here, again? Oh right -- droogs with the head coach.

Martin is the one and only guy I'd like to see them possibly hold on to in an assistant role. But even with him... if he's gone, he's gone. He's never exactly covered himself with glory, either. And traditionally coaches a brand of hockey I personally loathe.

 

[eXile59]

How do you judge them when we really don't know how big of an impact they had?

Reirden was charge of D-pairings, Granato forwards and PK, and Martin was just an "adviser" Beyond that what do we really know?

 

[Ogrezilla]

How do you judge them when we really don't know how big of an impact they had?

Reirden was charge of D-pairings, Granato forwards and PK, and Martin was just an "adviser" Beyond that what do we really know?

so Reirden had a part in Orpik and Scuds playing so much and Granato had a part in Glass and Adams playing so much. Fired.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Funny thing is i remember reading during the season that J.Martin wasn't even working with the defense. He was working with the forwards and thier defensive play.

Fire em all unless theres a place for Martin to sink his teeth in more.

 

[Jacob]

Don't have an issue with Granato or Martin. Martin in particular is vastly overqualified to be an assistant.

On paper Reirden always seemed underqualified. Only 1 and 1/3rd seasons as an AHL head coach, with mediocre results to boot. If you need a former d-man to handle the blueline and help run one of the special teams units, go after someone like Dave Lewis or Trent Yawney.

I'm sure Reirden isn't a *bad* assistant coach, but you can certainly do better. I think back to when the Caps hired Carlyle to be an assistant and almost immediately Gonchar went from an offensive d-man with defensive issues to a Norris trophy finalist. That's what can be the difference between an adequate assistant and a great one.

 

[eXile59]

so Reirden had a part in Orpik and Scuds playing so much and Granato had a part in Glass and Adams playing so much. Fired.

I would say maybe Bylsma set the line up and the match ups and just told them what to do. Like I said we really don't know how involved they were.

I think the biggest issue will be the new coach not wanting to inherit someone else's staff which is fair.

 

[Burgs]

If When you fire Bylsma you have to fire Granato and Reirden with him. They've been running the ship together for years so they're all responsible for running it aground. Good riddance to all three. Now Martin and goalie coach Bales have been here only for one year and improved at least some parts of the team. I'm not totally opposed to them staying around but the new GM and head coach will want to pick their own staff, and may not be comfortable with a veteran like Martin.

 

[Ogrezilla]

If When you fire Bylsma you have to fire Granato and Reirden with him. They've been running the ship together for years so they're all responsible for running it aground. Good riddance to all three. Now Martin and goalie coach Bales have been here only for one year and improved at least some parts of the team. I'm not totally opposed to them staying around but the new GM and head coach will want to pick their own staff, and may not be comfortable with a veteran like Martin.

pretty much this.

 

[Jacob]

I'm fine with replacing Martin and Bales as long as it's not to bring in the new GM or HC's pals (like Reirden and Bales were). I want a full staff with experience and a resume of success. No rookies, nobody learning on the job, nobody that's best buddies with anyone on the team. The coach is certainly within his rights to bring in assistants that he's familiar with, but not his college roommate that has never coached before.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

A clean slate, por favor.

 

[Captain Hook]

The PK is always horrendous against Flyers. This year it's only 10th best in the playoffs. Granato is definitely part of the problem and not a solution in getting better. He needs to go.

Yeah, I hadn't checked the numbers. Granato's PK kind of reflects our team overall the past 5 years. Good in the regular season and not so much in the playoffs.

2009-10
Regular Season 84.1% NHL Rank 9th out of 30
Playoffs 72.1% NHL Rank 15th out of 16

2010-11
Regular Season 86.1% NHL Rank 1st out of 30
Playoffs 70.4% NHL Rank 15th out of 16

2011-12
Regular Season 87.8% NHL Rank 3rd out of 30
Playoffs 47.8% NHL Rank 16th out of 16.

^ That 47.8 was the Philly series and it was hilariously bad. 18.9% lower than the next closest team to be exact.

2012-13
Regular Season 79.6% NHL Rank 25th out of 30
Playoffs 92.3% NHL Rank 2nd out of 16.

^ We were kind of ass backwards in 2012-13 for whatever reason. Bad in the regular season and great in the playoffs. One thing that was different was the goalie. The PK with Fleury allowed 2/15 and Vokoun allowed 2/37.

2013-14
Regular Season 85.0% NHL Rank 5th out of 30
Playoffs 81.1% NHL Rank 10th out of 16.

All in all our PK usually finishes inside the top 10 and usually top 5 in the regular season under Granato but usually finishes outside the top 10 of a smaller field of 16 when the playoffs hit.

 

[Ogrezilla]

our PK was very predictable. It was fine when teams just went with their normal PP strategy through the regular season; but when a team took the time to plan against it they could exploit it.

 

[Vujtek]

our PK was very predictable. It was fine when teams just went with their normal PP strategy through the regular season; but when a team took the time to plan against it they could exploit it.

The Rangers series is a good example of this. They went 0 for 15 in the first four games of the series. Pens took a 3-1 lead in the series. It took time for them to figure it out. But then they got a PP goal early in game 5 and went 3 for 11 (27%) in the last three games of the series. The series winning goal was a PPG.

 

[Fordy]

i would like to keep martin. i don't like granato but he seems acceptable as an assistant, should be gone on principle though. it's unbelievable that reirden ever got an nhl job to begin with

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I'd be fine, happy even, with keeping Martin and Bales. Bylsma and his long time buddies have to go, Granato and Reirden have been a part of the great regular season fail comically in the playoffs gang for too long.

I still don't know what the **** the plan was with the PP aside from throwing talent on the ice and hoping they do something. The PK suffered from brutal personnel choices on top of everything which stinks of Bylsma.

 

[Whale Mingo]

How do you judge them when we really don't know how big of an impact they had?

This, IMO is the tough part. Nobody knows how big of an egomaniac Bylsma really was. Would he dismiss good ideas just because they weren't his? I think so. Bylsma was a disaster and we don't know to what extent he allowed his assistants to do their job correctly.

I'm all for a clean slate, but if the people in the organization making decisions know that Bylsma was the real problem then I'm fine if he's the only one shown the door, as long as he is in fact shown the door.

I think the fan base turns on the organization if they start the season with Bylsma behind the bench. Webster's dictionary will have to include a new entry as the "Student Rush Sellout" will be a term you hear quite a bit next year.

 

[billybudd]

I'm all for brand new start. The new GM should have a vision for that team and the franchise should reflect that vision. He should pick a coach who can coach a team built to fit with that vision and that coach should bring assistants who can help him craft that vision consistently.

My impression of the coaches is that they were supplicants to Bylsma, but that may have been a product of their loyalty rather than a reflection on their true opinion. Regardless, I'm fine if literally everything about this franchise outside of Sid and Geno changes so.... to hell with the coaches!

Reirden wasn't. That "stick on puck" "allow screens and try to pickpocket a guy who's jamming at a rebound (lol)" stuff came in with him and was clearly his idea.

That's exactly how he played as a defenseman, by the way. You'd turn on ESPN2, see a tall, lanky guy on St Louis allowing a forward on the other team to envelop the goaltender, wonder if Pronger was hungover or something, then realize it was just Reirden letting the other team score again.

Terrible defenseman, by the way. Awful, awful player.

 

[theicebox]

Terrible defenseman, by the way. Awful, awful player.

I am sensing a trend with Reirden and Bylsma.

This makes me want Samuelsson and Tocchet.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

If we're giving the GM full power to name his coach, then his choice for coach should have full power to name his assistants.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Reirden never seemed that qualified to be an assistant for a contender, he's a guy someone like the Oilers should hire or an AHL team head coach at best. Granato, was never a fan of as a coach let alone an assistant and Jacques Martin as an assistant was over kill and showed exactly why Reirden, Granato and Bylsma needed to go, they needed JM as their senior adviser basically.