Post-Game Talk: Ref Wings @ Sens

[Burrowsaurus]

Great post!

Seems like if a kid doesn't put up PPG stats by 21-22, he's a bust these days.

No with zib it's very much his style and how he carries himself are the ice. It's not pleasing to the eye. And then you look at the stars after 10-20-30 games and it's like "oh he's putting up some nice points".

What's weird is he's always been around .5ppg in his pro seasons. Sweden twice. All his seasons in the NHL.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Yea sure sweep it under the rug as usual. Had anyone else made that there would be an outrage.

Regardless of whether Anderson put him in a bad position or not he had ample time to make the safest play.

When it's 2 huge mistakes after carrying our team and having a career year for ~50 games. Yes. It gets swept under the rug.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Yeah, you can read into it whatever you want. But we were out chanced heavily, even though the shots were pretty even. I think with the lineup as it is now, we still give up scoring chances, but we don't generate enough. Prince should come in for one of Chiasson, Lazar, Neil or Paul. Wideman should be in for Boro.

And now everybody sees why Murray kept saying this team needs another top 6 forward and a LW at that.

Granted we also needed a top 4 D on the left but I can behind the thought that improved offense should alleviate the work load of the D. The top 6 still needs a lot more skill and more lefties to help with cycling down low, something the rookies Dzingel and Paul have helped the bottom 6 with, to maintain puck possession in the offensive zone and allow Karlsson to get off the ice without having to fear that we are going to get brutalized until he gets back on.

On the topic of Zibanejad the production was never in question, his effort and consistency of play were. He has been playing rather well the last few games and he's quite good when he is but when Turris is doing sweet **** all we need him to be like that pretty much every game to have a chance. A bit unfair to ask that of him, I can agree, but this is a result driven business (not many are not!) and this team is, on paper, good enough to make the playoffs so the frustration of getting dominated night in and night out while he looks "off" rather often does take over.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

That's interesting. Though I thought ceci played well yesterday. A lot of those shot attempts I find come from not clearing the puck on the first attempt. And I think that has a lot to do with the forwards.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

When it's 2 huge mistakes after carrying our team and having a career year for ~50 games. Yes. It gets swept under the rug.

So I guess it gets glossed over because hes been the best player but you can crap on Zibanejad despite him being one of the youngest players on the team and still learning? Not to mention his production isn't bad. Nice to see you being non-objective yet again.

 

[God Says No]

And now everybody sees why Murray kept saying this team needs another top 6 forward and a LW at that.

Granted we also needed a top 4 D on the left but I can behind the thought that improved offense should alleviate the work load of the D. The top 6 still needs a lot more skill and more lefties to help with cycling down low, something the rookies Dzingel and Paul have helped the bottom 6 with, to maintain puck possession in the offensive zone and allow Karlsson to get off the ice without having to fear that we are going to get brutalized until he gets back on.

Yeah, the MacArthur injury hurt the top 6. But that is even more reason to play Prince. I don't understand why he sits, while Chiasson, Lazar and Neil get a free pass even though they don't generate much. We have too many of the same players on the bottom 6. Too many 4th liners.

That's interesting. Though I thought ceci played well yesterday. A lot of those shot attempts I find come from not clearing the puck on the first attempt. And I think that has a lot to do with the forwards.

Yeah, that has something to do with it, but is not that simplistic I believe. It's curious that Ceci is consistently on the bottom every game though. Hence the "Ceci zone" remark.

 

[2CHAINZ]

I really think we ***** too much about Zibanejad and his production...

I mean, I dunno, he's fairly comparable to some of the "great" young second line centermen around the league...


Mika Zibanejad
59 11 24 35

Nick Bjugstad
44 10 10 20

Tyler Johnson
45 9 14 23

Alex Galchenyuk
59 14 20 34

Craig Smith
59 13 8 21

Marcus Johansson
50 14 20 34

Charlie Coyle
58 18 13 31

Mark Scheifele
47 13 16 29

Derek Stepan
48 13 16 29

Ryan Strome
46 7 16 23

Adam Henrique
58 19 18 37

Jordan Staal
59 15 22 37

Sean Couturier
40 9 15 24

Brayden Schenn
56 18 18 36

Boone Jenner
59 19 13 32

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
46 8 22 30

I just want to point out what others are saying it's not his production it's his softness. The guy needs to be harder to play against he has a big body but plays like he's 4 feet tall.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

So I guess it gets glossed over because hes been the best player but you can crap on Zibanejad despite him being one of the youngest players on the team and still learning? Not to mention his production isn't bad. Nice to see you being non-objective yet again.

I really don't think anyone is sweeping it under the rug: everybody agrees the first was a disastrous giveaway while the second one was an unfortunate bounce (he could have been tougher on the puck but whenever something goes wrong there's something you could have done better).

The thing is no one is angry at him because he's an incredible player and even incredible players have bad games and/or bad bounces happen to them. When you are that good you get a bit of good will thrown your way, this is basic human nature.

 

[HavlatMach9]

I know nothing about advanced stats. Dumb question.

Based on this chart, with no prior knowledge of how this works, I would assume that to the right you would be a darker blue, and to the left you would be a darker red. For some reason it seems totally random.

Why is that?

the colors i guess are there to point out if TOI explains something abnormal

 

[Senacus Maximus]

the colors i guess are there to point out if TOI explains something abnormal

I see that now, thanks. Didn't notice that "TOI" on the bottom left.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

So I guess it gets glossed over because hes been the best player but you can crap on Zibanejad despite him being one of the youngest players on the team and still learning? Not to mention his production isn't bad. Nice to see you being non-objective yet again.

How can you compare karlsson to zibanejad.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

As far as the whole TOI/Corsi graph thingy I think it's quite clear Detroit actually has a system.

We do not, we have players that the coach throws on the ice and hopes things work out.

This is another added benefit of retaining veterans: they usually are steeped in the team culture and help pass it on to the younger players. When your roster is this young the identity comes from the roster, not the other way around.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I just want to point out what others are saying it's not his production it's his softness. The guy needs to be harder to play against he has a big body but plays like he's 4 feet tall.

Yeah. It's a refusal to use some of his tools. It's incredibly frsutrating. He can be more than what he currently is. And it has nothing to do with "he's young he will develop"

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Yeah. It's a refusal to use some of his tools. It's incredibly frsutrating. He can be more than what he currently is. And it has nothing to do with "he's young he will develop"

Enlighten me

 

[Scrub*]

Phaneuf and Ceci have been our best pairing on D this season.

 

[Samsquanch]

Yeah. It's a refusal to use some of his tools. It's incredibly frsutrating. He can be more than what he currently is. And it has nothing to do with "he's young he will develop"

Yet these same inconsistencies are present in almost every other player like him....

I just don't get why every other fan base would call this developing, and our fan base calls this failing...

Seriously though, there is really something wrong with this situation. It bugs me.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Yeah, you can read into it whatever you want. But we were out chanced heavily, even though the shots were pretty even. I think with the lineup as it is now, we still give up scoring chances, but we don't generate enough. Prince should come in for one of Chiasson, Lazar, Neil or Paul. Wideman should be in for Boro.

Wah, wah, wah....

Dude, we won the game. Now go back and look at your chart. What exactly does it mean again? That according to advanced stats we should have lost the game?

Right, it means lets whine and complain after a win, because we'll lose eventually and you'll be "right" for recognizing all of our shortcomings early...

I'll give you this, advanced stats give all of you chicken littles lots of ammo to blaze away with regardless of what happens on the ice. That's a win somewhere in the world...

Maybe...

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Phaneuf and Ceci have been our best pairing on D this season.

Having two great D pairings is invaluable in this league. Chicago's win percent went way up when they obtained Oduya and stabilized their defense(not to mention taking some pressure off Keith).

 

[ISensFanI]

corsi is dumb

 

[Ice-Tray]

I just want to point out what others are saying it's not his production it's his softness. The guy needs to be harder to play against he has a big body but plays like he's 4 feet tall.

Lets look at it this way. We all have friends that are soft in a physical conflict. It's not because they aren't trying hard enough, it's because it's part of who they are; great in some areas, perhaps "lacking" in others, like the rest of us.

You want to add physical dominance to Zib, welcome to one of the most elite players of the last few years, instead of being happy with one of the best young players of the last few years.

Here's the test, take your level of scrutiny and slap it on your wife/partner/friends/yourself, in the real world...

Oh snap, you're all "soft" too!

But wait, we PAY MONEY to watch hockey, they can't be normal people like us, they have to be aggressive badasses who score more than, well in this case more than more than average... They OWE us!

I'm mostly playing dude, I like your posts, you seem like a super chill dude, but this Zib bashing stuff is just crap. He's a nice guy who is good at hockey. He's not lazy, he plays the game more like Kovalev, and less like Boro. Let's embrace our team and players for their faults as well as their strengths.... then we can all hold hands in a circle and save the planet...

 

[God Says No]

Wah, wah, wah....

Dude, we won the game. Now go back and look at your chart. What exactly does it mean again? That according to advanced stats we should have lost the game?

Right, it means lets whine and complain after a win, because we'll lose eventually and you'll be "right" for recognizing all of our shortcomings early...

I'll give you this, advanced stats give all of you chicken littles lots of ammo to blaze away with regardless of what happens on the ice. That's a win somewhere in the world...

Maybe...

You can plug your ears and pretend like everything is rosy, hey whatever makes you feel better I guess. Just like yourself and other posters at the beginning of the year were saying "But we're 4 points out of first place! This team is not bad!". Then reality started to seep in and we tumbled out of the playoffs. But let's ignore everything since we barely won a game.

 

[topshelf15]

He's not a disappointment to anyone who's reasonable and knows something about hockey. His production is fine for his skills/age/experience, and he's very strong defensively most of the time. Anyone who thinks he's a disappointment either had unreasonable expectations or is clueless about the sport.

Knows anything about hockey ,your only looking at points as if they are the only thing that matter .Zbad needs to figure out what he is ,he wants to use his size but is scared of what might happen to him if he does ,so he tries to be a finesse player which he doesnt have the skill or elusiveness to be .His points have been more about whom he plays with, and how much premium ice time he recieves.Dont talk about my knowledge of the sport bud been watching hockey for over 30 years,i understand the game just fine

 

[topshelf15]

Yeah. It's a refusal to use some of his tools. It's incredibly frsutrating. He can be more than what he currently is. And it has nothing to do with "he's young he will develop"

Agreed ,he is scared out there .He has the size and the strength to be a great power center ,but he doesnt have the b@#$ls

 

[2CHAINZ]

Lets look at it this way. We all have friends that are soft in a physical conflict. It's not because they aren't trying hard enough, it's because it's part of who they are; great in some areas, perhaps "lacking" in others, like the rest of us.

You want to add physical dominance to Zib, welcome to one of the most elite players of the last few years, instead of being happy with one of the best young players of the last few years.

Here's the test, take your level of scrutiny and slap it on your wife/partner/friends/yourself, in the real world...

Oh snap, you're all "soft" too!

But wait, we PAY MONEY to watch hockey, they can't be normal people like us, they have to be aggressive badasses who score more than, well in this case more than more than average... They OWE us!

I'm mostly playing dude, I like your posts, you seem like a super chill dude, but this Zib bashing stuff is just crap. He's a nice guy who is good at hockey. He's not lazy, he plays the game more like Kovalev, and less like Boro. Let's embrace our team and players for their faults as well as their strengths.... then we can all hold hands in a circle and save the planet...

All I am saying is there are times where he needs to finish checks and not shy away from physical contact. His for checking is sub par because I'm sure defenders see its dj zbad coming at them and he's thinking of edm music not hitting them so they don't panic and move the puck with ease. Overall I like him just want him to be harder to play against.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Galley made a point to mention that one of the reasons Phaneuf does so much good to Ottawa is because he's a **** to play against.

Definitely agree that this team could stand to have a lot more bite: a lot of skilled nice guys, and even some that do play hard, but there's a threshold between playing hard and being a **** to play against (Fisher was hard to play against, didn't have an ounce of **** in him though!).