Referees: Ref Slaps kid, Brawl Ensues

[FLYLine27*]

The ref slapped a kid. More than that, he slapped a teammate of another kid, who was already in a heated environment, running on adrenaline, and let's face it, teenagers aren't known for their cool, calm demeanor. That response, to me, is not at all unexpected. Sure, he could have gotten away with it at the time, but it doesn't surprise me at all that at least one other player lost it when he saw an official smack a teammate. Players defend their own.

The referee can't do that. That doesn't mean the kid who got smacked was innocent, and the player who initially jumped the ref was definitely not innocent, but the referee can't do that.

Edit: as for respecting the official... The official stops being an official, to me, when he stops acting like an official. Hitting a player is not officiating. Those stripes, and that orange band don't grant him carte blanche. Again, the response from the kids was also unacceptable, but it's more than a little naive to expect kids, in a very heated environment, to act like mature adults. Especially when even adults struggle to do that, in similar situations.

Yes, you don't touch the ref, but in a similar situation there are adults who would likely have defended their teammate, because in that situation the referee isn't a referee. He's just an ******* who is hitting a teammate. A friend.

Great post. Agree 100%

 

[FLYLine27*]

How else is a ref supposed to keep another player out of a scrum? Ask him with nice words? Maybe blow the whistle a couple times? Up until the slap I don't see the ref doing anything wrong or out of line.

Really? How come other referees dont have this problem? There is scrums all the time in all levels and the referee is always able to sepearte players without resorting to violence. And he absoutely is in the wrong right from the start, when he grabbed the player by the coller and tried to drag him away, that alone already crossed the line. It's a 14-15 year old child, you don't need to do that to them, he wasnt't even doing anything beside chirping either. If the ref can't handle or figure out how to solve the solution the right way then he shouldnt have been there in the first place.

 

[not a troll]

I'd start with not getting his hands up around the collar or head area of the player. Keep the hands on the chest. Don't go above it.

I don't expect the ref to be gentle about it, but getting manhandled around the collar and head area like that is damn uncomfortable, and a lot of people might feel a need to protect themselves a bit.

Really? How come other referees dont have this problem? There is scrums all the time in all levels and the referee is always able to sepearte players without resorting to violence. And he absoutely is in the wrong right from the start, when he grabbed the player by the coller and tried to drag him away, that alone already crossed the line. It's a 14-15 year old child, you don't need to do that to them, he wasnt't even doing anything beside chirping either. If the ref can't handle or figure out how to solve the solution the right way then he shouldnt have been there in the first place.

Grabbing a player by the collar really isn't that out of the ordinary. I Youtube searched hockey scrum and here is the first video that came up.

Watch the whole sequence, notice how none of the players fight back or grab the refs in any way similar to #11. When a ref tells you to go to the box, go to the box.



Here's a video from a lower level. Multiple instances of refs having to resort to extremes to break up a scrum yet no players felt it was necessary to go after the ref.

 

[GarbageGoal]

Jesus, the fans in that last video should be all thrown out of the building. It's midgets for god's sake.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Grabbing a player by the collar really isn't that out of the ordinary. I Youtube searched hockey scrum and here is the first video that came up.

Watch the whole sequence, notice how none of the players fight back or grab the refs in any way similar to #11. When a ref tells you to go to the box, go to the box.



Here's a video from a lower level. Multiple instances of refs having to resort to extremes to break up a scrum yet no players felt it was necessary to go after the ref.

Im not even going to bother to respond to the NHL video.

And the other video is such an extreme example compared to the original video, but i sure as hell didnt see any of them smacking the players on the side of the head, they actually did a very good job.

 

[not a troll]

Im not even going to bother to respond to the NHL video.

And the other video is such an extreme example compared to the original video, but i sure as hell didnt see any of them smacking the players on the side of the head, they actually did a very good job.

It doesn't matter, both are examples of players respecting refs position of power despite refs having to physically restrain them - and by the collar.

#11 and #15 in the original video are both hot heads who should have been penalized the same amount as the ref.

 

[Rebuilt]

Sorry but under no circumstances should you lay a hand on a ref. Even tugging at the jersey of a ref is crossing the line.

I understand your concern for the 'rule of law' but the 'hockey law' cannot supersede actual abuse of a minor.

Even NHL refs dont hit players. This ref striking a minor across the face is a felony. It was not justified. He should and will be fired.

 

[FLYLine27*]

I understand your concern for the 'rule of law' but the 'hockey law' cannot supersede actual abuse of a minor.

Even NHL refs dont hit players. This ref striking a minor across the face is a felony. It was not justified. He should and will be fired.

He was only given a 2 month suspension

 

[coachwithoutahead]

When a ref steps outside his bounds as an authority figure, all courtesies go out the window. I don't care if you're a ref, player, coach or the zamboni driver, if you slap someone in the face on the ice in the middle of a heated exchange, you better get ready to defend yourself.

 

[Goonzilla]

Some people have a strange mentality..if you mess with me you gonna get busted..'if it happened to me all bets are off'.

Are so many people I'll disciplined hot heads?

That's quite probably where that referee erred. I doubt very much he intended to fight or hit a player, but in the heat of the moment when he was trying to break up a fight he lost his cool and reacted badly under pressure.

I've had a few scraps in my time, more than most people.

Always walk to a fight and always think before you act.

These idiots who think that if some little thing happens, then it's justified for s bunch of people to all jump in and up the ante x 20, which is what happened when all those other little idiots piled in.

 

[Sojourn]

Some people have a strange mentality..if you mess with me you gonna get busted..'if it happened to me all bets are off'.

Are so many people I'll disciplined hot heads?

That's quite probably where that referee erred. I doubt very much he intended to fight or hit a player, but in the heat of the moment when he was trying to break up a fight he lost his cool and reacted badly under pressure.

I've had a few scraps in my time, more than most people.

Always walk to a fight and always think before you act.

These idiots who think that if some little thing happens, then it's justified for s bunch of people to all jump in and up the ante x 20, which is what happened when all those other little idiots piled in.

You contradict yourself here. You're giving the referee some benefit of the doubt, and saying that in the heat of the moment he lost his cool, and then at the same time you're suggesting that if someone else says they could lose their cool if they were smacked by a ref, they are ill disciplined hot heads?

We're talking about teenage boys here, during a hockey game. Are you really expecting cooler heads to prevail? Because I've seen grown men lose their cool for less, and it's easy to dismiss them as hot heads, but that isn't really the truth.

 

[Goonzilla]

You contradict yourself here. You're giving the referee some benefit of the doubt, and saying that in the heat of the moment he lost his cool, and then at the same time you're suggesting that if someone else says they could lose their cool if they were smacked by a ref, they are ill disciplined hot heads?

We're talking about teenage boys here, during a hockey game. Are you really expecting cooler heads to prevail? Because I've seen grown men lose their cool for less, and it's easy to dismiss them as hot heads, but that isn't really the truth.

No not at all. It's all to do with proportionality. If I'd been there (playing) and seen what happened, I would have actually broken up the ref and my team mate and gotten in between them. It's not about 'standing up' for people. The ref was out of line, but ultimately he didn't harm or hurt the player or do any damage.

People are talking like the ref King hit the player from behind or something. It was nothing to warrant or instigate a brawl. It was nonsensical and only of consequence because it was a referee.

The response from #15 was just try hard idiocy from an absolute fool and more deserving of a harsher sanction than the ref. The ref screwed up..the player #15 just looked like a cowardly wannabe thug..no thought or self control. Those types often pick their targets carefully, witness hitting the ref from behind. If it wasn't in a hockey game, say a soccer game, it would be like some of the chicken #%^* cowardly stuff you might expect in a lower division South American soccer game you see on YouTube.

Had he just grabbed onto him and had a bit of a wrestle quite different..but he was completely out of control and unrestrained..the ref never was..even though he messed up big time.

 

[Goonzilla]

..and there's a huge difference between being a hothead and lashing out at someone in frustration and being a 'hothead' and launching a sustained attack on someone from behind.

I'd hope most people can make that sort of distinction. Ultimately it boils down to the intent. The intent of the referee was quite different from the intent of the player that blindsided him. That is plain as day..and 'sticking up for a team mate' is just a cop out.

 

[DuckedUpOnQuack]

Ignorant to reffing responsibility here...

But do refs have a different obligation to protect players during fights at the high school level vs. competitive out-of-school teams? ie: could the school board be liable if injuries occur to students if refs don't break up altercations appropriately?

 

[Crosbyfan]

The kids each got a 2 game suspension, and the referee got a 2 month suspension. Sad how he will still be refffing

Stupid kids…one had already done enough to warrant a lot more than 2 games prior to the "love tap" from the ref. The second kid who came in swinging should be not be playing hockey for a long time.

Stupid ref…what's with the "love tap"? On what planet and on what species was that going to help control matters?

Stupid organization…those kids got just 2 games each?

 

[spiller19]

At lower levels of hockey you get some terrible refs. You get guys on a power trip who get to feel important for a few hours a week. It's very easy to become a riff at that level and it shows when you have idiots like the one in the video. He got what he deserved if you ask me. I reffed for four years and I'm not saying all of them are like that they are few and far between but you do get guys like him and they shouldn't be given benefit of the doubt simply because of their title.

 

[57special]

Bunch of cowardly kids. Ref wasn't perfect, but who knows what was going on. Player had his hands all over ref prior to fight... it was obvious that there was out of control situations all over the ice, yet you want to blame the ref?

 

[mashedpotato]

Bunch of cowardly kids. Ref wasn't perfect, but who knows what was going on. Player had his hands all over ref prior to fight... it was obvious that there was out of control situations all over the ice, yet you want to blame the ref?

I don't think anyone here isn't blaming it on the ref. He clearly stepped out of his bounds of authority.

There isn't a codec of authority on this planet that allows another person to assault another person.

Even police officers have strict rules during governance.

Referee's authority aren't even close to allowing him to engage in a physical altercation with a player.

The ref is wrong. anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't understand what the term "job limitations" means.

 

[Summer Rose]

Referee slapping the player is inexcusable.

Players jumping the ref is inexcusable.

Fans coming onto the ice is inexcusable.

Terrible situation all around. All participants in the wrong and nothing anyone did is justified.

 

[Crosbyfan]

I don't think anyone here isn't blaming it on the ref. He clearly stepped out of his bounds of authority.

There isn't a codec of authority on this planet that allows another person to assault another person.

Even police officers have strict rules during governance.

Referee's authority aren't even close to allowing him to engage in a physical altercation with a player.

The ref is wrong. anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't understand what the term "job limitations" means.

The ref showed poor judgement in the manner he retaliated. He should have restrained only and then handed the kid a gross misconduct match penalty.

It could have been much worse, with or without the slap, if the white team had handled themselves like the kids on the maroon team did (11 and 15 in particular).

If you look at the whole sequence (not knowing what else happened up to that point) the white teams players handled themselves remarkably well.

 

[Goonzilla]

I don't think anyone here isn't blaming it on the ref. He clearly stepped out of his bounds of authority.

There isn't a codec of authority on this planet that allows another person to assault another person.

Even police officers have strict rules during governance.

Referee's authority aren't even close to allowing him to engage in a physical altercation with a player.

The ref is wrong. anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't understand what the term "job limitations" means.

Yeah, the ref was out of line, maybe way, way out of line; but that is no justification for someone else, not involved, to attack the referee from behind and give him a beating, be it a high school kid or an adult. There is a bit of a school of thought, that because one thing happened then it is open season and anything goes on the referee. That's just crazy thinking.

As a player or coach, discipline and brains are two of the most important attributes you can have. If those kids, especially #15 got two games, they need to be thanking their lucky stars.

While a referee at NHL level would be a lot more experienced and not lose his cool like this referee, what do people think an NHL player 3rd man in and attacking a referee from behind might expect to get. A hell of a lot more than two games I'd suggest.

But there's a ton of situations where you can 'assault' a person and it is not assault. Every time you step on the ice or play any sort of physical or contact sport you are consenting to such..to a point. 'To a point' being the point.

Nightclub doormen can manhandle people from their premises, just as can a home or business owner should they need to, but that doesn't mean they can injure them or put them in hospital, just like a cop can't shoot someone because they get pushed by the person.

Those players who attacked the ref were acting out of all proportion to any assertion to be protecting or sticking up for their mate.

Presumably the ref was older. Would he then be justified in knocking all of #15's teeth out in response to being attacked from behind do you suppose?

 

[FLYLine27*]

..and there's a huge difference between being a hothead and lashing out at someone in frustration and being a 'hothead' and launching a sustained attack on someone from behind.

I'd hope most people can make that sort of distinction. Ultimately it boils down to the intent. The intent of the referee was quite different from the intent of the player that blindsided him. That is plain as day..and 'sticking up for a team mate' is just a cop out.

Nothing happens if the refs doesn't start it. He is the adult and he is the one suppose to be responsible. He was not, he made a dumb move, and a bunch of 15 year old kids reacted.

It's very clear who is at fault over the entire thing, even if everyone was clearly in the wrong.

 

[Fantomas]

That kid deserved to be slapped. Give the ref a medal.

 

[mashedpotato]

But there's a ton of situations where you can 'assault' a person and it is not assault.

Unless you've consented to it, any intentional physical harm is assault.

Obviously a slap is considered physical harm.

Players vs. players provide consent because physical contact, both intentional or unintentional is reasonably part of the game and by signing a waiver, they've provided consent.

Player vs. official is not reasonable.

Not to put too blunt of a point on this, but when anyone steps on the ice to play hockey, do they think there's a chance that they'll have to fight a referee?

I would hazard a guess and say no?

Because it's unreasonable, it's not governed under consent.

Guess what you've got when you mix the following :

intentional physical harm in the form of a slap + no consent.

Bottom line, the ref was out of line. To be honest, the players who jumped on the ref, the fan joining the melee on ice and the ref were all violating league and civil law; however they're all derivatives of the ref's slap to players face-cage....

 

[mashedpotato]

Nightclub doormen can manhandle people from their premises, just as can a home or business owner should they need to, but that doesn't mean they can injure them or put them in hospital, just like a cop can't shoot someone because they get pushed by the person.

Misguided but no, doormen cannot manhandle people.

Because it's considered private property, doormen have the right to protect property against uninvited guests within reason.

But if the doorman asks you to leave and you challenge that authority by not leaving, he's not allowed to slap you until you do leave. Alternatively, he's not allowed to manhandle you if you just stand there and choose not to leave. In that case, the Police does have the authority to remove a person from private property, but doormen are not granted that authority by any law including civil.