Redo Round 1, 2002.

mooseOAK* · Oct 25, 2004

Postman said:
Jordan Leopold, Paul Martin, J.M. Liles... just within the past few years.

Yeah, but there haven't been that many overall.

Jacob · Oct 25, 2004

Orpik, Hale, Komisarek, Jillson.

mooseOAK* · Oct 25, 2004

Jacobv2 said:
Orpik, Hale, Komisarek, Jillson.

Orpik and Jillson are on their way to first round bust territory. The other guys, it is too early to tell for sure.

Olorin · Oct 25, 2004

mooseOAK said:
Orpik and Jillson are on their way to first round bust territory. The other guys, it is too early to tell for sure.

Orpik a bust?

nomorekids · Oct 25, 2004

mooseOAK said:
Orpik and Jillson are on their way to first round bust territory. The other guys, it is too early to tell for sure.

Man, you should probably give me that shovel. If you dig yourself any deeper, I'm afraid we might never see you again!

mooseOAK* · Oct 25, 2004

nomorekids said:
Man, you should probably give me that shovel. If you dig yourself any deeper, I'm afraid we might never see you again!

Orpik has done nothing of note and Jillson has been traded two, technically three times already.

FedorScores · Oct 25, 2004

Were talking about Brooks Orpik?

The Brooks Orpik who was probably the Pens best physical defensemen last year?

As far as Jillson, I dunno, he's still young, and has put up solid offensive numbers.

Both guys are no where near "busts" as of yet...

X-SHARKIE · Oct 25, 2004

Wow, if Orpik is a bust, then I would like more busts to be on the Sharks lol.

Seriosly he has the make up of the next Kyle McLaren...He is extremely tough to play against and well be huge for the Penguins in a couple of years when they start to compete again.

No were near a bust at all....in fact it's a very successfull pick IMO.

Jillson has alot of potential. In College you loved him because of his offensive flare and his bone rattling hits....he needs to bring back that mean streak and use his size defensively and just be smart with the puck. Offensively he still has it and should be a good 4th-5th defenseman some day.

Morbo · Oct 25, 2004

Glad to see Alexander Steen moving up on people's lists.

Even gladder to see Stajan has moved up to a nice 1st round selection from his original 57th. :yo:

nomorekids · Oct 25, 2004

mooseOAK said:
Orpik has done nothing of note that I have seen, since all I do is watch Leafs games and think about what my next unsubstantiated post on HF will be and Jillson has been traded two, technically three times already.

Oh, okay.

Jeff Goldblum · Oct 25, 2004

nomorekids said:
Oh, okay.

That made me laugh.

Orpik a bust...okay. :dunno:

MooseOAK, you seriously haven't seen him play have you. Tell me how many times you have seen him play.

mooseOAK* · Oct 25, 2004

Pens4ever said:
That made me laugh.

Orpik a bust...okay.

MooseOAK, you seriously haven't seen him play have you. Tell me how many times you have seen him play.

Not that often but this whole site is built around people making comments about players they haven't seen very often if at all, isn't it?

I see a guy who is 24 and has only played 85 NHL games on arguably the easiest defence in the league to crack.

mooseOAK* · Oct 25, 2004

nomorekids said:
Oh, okay I have nothing to offer myself so I will try to be cute.

Enjoy yourself.

nomorekids · Oct 25, 2004

mooseOAK said:
Not that often but this whole site is built around people making comments about players they haven't seen very often if at all, isn't it?

I see a guy who is 24 and has only played 85 NHL games on arguably the easiest defence in the league to crack.

So, because the Pens actually let a guy finish school\develop a bit in the AHL...he's a bust? And this is all based on blind assumption, of course..as you basically just admitted your opinion is founded on nothing more than his age and games played. I'm no Pens fan...and I've been a spirited Hamhuis proponent in the legendary "Hamhuis vs Orpik" debates, but the Pens have a guy that's going to be terrific, and is already well on his way. I'd take Orpik over Komisarek at this point, that's for sure.

Oh...and I'd take either over Colaiacovo. Shrug.

mooseOAK* · Oct 25, 2004

nomorekids said:
So, because the Pens actually let a guy finish school\develop a bit in the AHL...he's a bust?

The really good ones, which was my original point, move to the front of the line especially on a team with little or no depth.

Oh...and I'd take either over Colaiacovo. Shrug.

Really? What a shock!

nomorekids · Oct 25, 2004

mooseOAK said:
The really good ones, which was my original point, move to the front of the line especially on a team with little or no depth.

Really? What a shock!

It shouldn't be a shock. Orpik is clearly better.

andora · Oct 25, 2004

mooseOAK said:
Not that often but this whole site is built around people making comments about players they haven't seen very often if at all, isn't it?

I see a guy who is 24 and has only played 85 NHL games on arguably the easiest defence in the league to crack.

ok, when you're talking about collegiate players, please don't use his age as a negative, as you will just make yourself look foolish

mooseOAK said:
The really good ones, which was my original point, move to the front of the line especially on a team with little or no depth.

really? LOOK at the amount of players fighting for spots on that blueline.. 85 games as a 24 yr old.. have you looked deeper than that or just figured he should have played as many games as legwand has by now..

he played two full solid years in wilkesbarre, 01-02 and 02-03..

in 2001-2002, as a rookie, he was competing with rozsival, kasparaitis, laukkanen (making too much money to demote/sit for pens), ference, moran, pushor, jonsson (again too much $ i think), melichar, and wilson.. now, as a ROOKIE TO PROFESSIONAL hockey he isn't expected to shine in his first year, he was sent to the ahl to adjust to pro hockey.. it isn't wrong, it's the right developmental move to do..

now, in 2002-2003, he had to compete with tarnstrom, rozsival, bergevin, laukkanen (who i believe was injured later on), moran, jonsson, and pushor.. again, you have several for sures and a bunch of other maybes (focht, heins, ference, lupaschuk, and melichar (b/c of injury i believe - shoulder)... so he spends a 2nd year in the ahl, and even has a brief call up...

next year, he plays 79 games for the big pens, with dmen like tarnstrom, berehowsky (money), strbak, bergevin, melichar, focht and i believe boileau.. not as many players to beat out, yet he still beat out guys like luspaschuk, welch etc.. for a spot and played the entire season..

where has he gone wrong? where is orpik's true mistake, is becoming an nhler at 24 rather than 22 bad? or a failure?

Big McLargehuge · Oct 25, 2004

If Craig Patrick has shown us Pens fans anything the past few years it's that he doesn't like to rush players. He rushed Robert Dome and completely ruined him and he's not let a player rush to the front of the line, with the exception of Fleury last year(who made it absolutely impossible not to cut him with his camp). Patrick doesn't believe in putting youth into the fire. Look at all the rookies had last year, and then look at their age. Orpik, Malone, Koltsov, Murley, etc...everyone had extensive experience other than the goalies Fleury and Chiodo. Be it four years in college(Malone), seasons in the AHL(Orpik, Koltsov), or a combination of both(Murley).

If Orpik is a bust I'd hate to see what a made prospect is considering he was the Penguins best defensive defenseman in almost a decade as a rookie...

Age is a terrible argument, especially for college players. Ryan Malone turned 24 mid-way through the season but was still only in his first professional season...

The Mars Volchenkov · Oct 25, 2004

Alexie Kaigorodov might sneak into the first round. He's one of the leading scorers in the RSL this year.

mooseOAK* · Oct 25, 2004

andora said:
ok, when you're talking about collegiate players, please don't use his age as a negative, as you will just make yourself look foolish

Whatever that's supposed to mean. 24 is 24 no matter where he played.

where has he gone wrong? where is orpik's true mistake, is becoming an nhler at 24 rather than 22 bad? or a failure?

Does it make him a successful first round pick? Or, could a team find a guy that takes that long to develop in the lower rounds

nomorekids · Oct 25, 2004

mooseOAK said:
Whatever that's supposed to mean. 24 is 24 no matter where he played.

Does it make him a successful first round pick? Or, could a team find a guy that takes that long to develop in the lower rounds

so by your logic, giguere was a bust as well..because he took til age 25-26 to be a successful starter?

craig1 · Oct 25, 2004

mooseOAK said:
Whatever that's supposed to mean. 24 is 24 no matter where he played.

Does it make him a successful first round pick? Or, could a team find a guy that takes that long to develop in the lower rounds

Orpik is an injury free Mark Tinordi with better puck control. A better more modern comparison is a similar game and skill level to Adam Foote. He is that good.

If you can give specifics on his game that make him a bust, please detail them. Claiming that he stayed in school (as he was told to do by Pens management....he actually left a year early against their wishes) is not a valid reason at all.

....oh, and of the 17 people drafted ahead of him, only 6 have played more games than him. The only one of those six that is a d-man is Klesla, who arguably should have been allowed more time to develop at lower levels himself (ps Jacket fans....I love Klesla, and would want him on my team. Just using a legit comparison. Not meant as a shot at him.)

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2000e.html

mooseOAK* · Oct 25, 2004

nomorekids said:
so by your logic, giguere was a bust as well..because he took til age 25-26 to be a successful starter?

Orpik's a goalie? Sorry, I guess I was way off.

mooseOAK* · Oct 25, 2004

craig1 said:
....oh, and of the 17 people drafted ahead of him, only 6 have played more games than him. The only one of those six that is a d-man is Klesla, who arguably should have been allowed more time to develop at lower levels himself (ps Jacket fans....I love Klesla, and would want him on my team. Just using a legit comparison. Not meant as a shot at him.)

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2000e.html

Klesla could be like Kaberle was, not a perfect NHL defenseman at a young age but nothing to learn from being in the AHL.

craig1 · Oct 25, 2004

mooseOAK said:
Klesla could be like Kaberle was, not a perfect NHL defenseman at a young age but nothing to learn from being in the AHL.

I got to see him about 15 times on TV his first 2 seasons in the league.......he had a lot to learn, as did Kaberle who spent a few years after being drafted, in the Czech Republic developing, before coming over.

Redo Round 1, 2002.

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