Red Wings/ Tigers who's rebuild gets done first?

[silkyjohnson50]

Don't the Tigers have to have been built once before we can start talking about a rebuild?

We're talking about the Tigers apex being a 4 year run of second round loss, Series loss, second round loss, first round loss.

I'm not 100% sure fans here would accept that, wrapped by a 3-5 year window of missing the playoffs on each side like it is, if that was the Wings.

The Tigers were a contender, so don't act like they weren't.

Also, it's not being compared to which organization had more success. What's being compared is who will become a contender first from here on out.

Lastly, how many teams make the MLB postseason again? And despite that, the Tigers still have twice as many series victories as the Wings do since that 4 year run that you alluded too.

But go on, make this something that it's not just to pacify the Wings per usual.

 

[Run the Jewels]

The Tigers & Wings face long retools/ rebuilds. Both have the same owner. Both let their g.m.'s let the core players grow old and stats drop.

So with a 5-10 year window for a revamped team. Who get's there first?

My guess.......... Red Wings. Better young talent

I don't know anything about MLB or the Tigers so I will go with the Red Wings. The key factor is going to be how much longer Holland stays around and who eventually replaces him. I'm not fully confident Holland can get us back to being highly competitive so it's going to be an interesting couple seasons, that's for sure.

 

[InjuredChoker]

i guess tigers have better odds, just based on the differences in league rules.

but wings could finish faster if they get lucky in the draft lottery and get some studs in later rounds and tigers aren't allowed to spend a ton of money.

 

[HIFE]

Don't the Tigers have to have been built once before we can start talking about a rebuild?

We're talking about the Tigers apex being a 4 year run of second round loss, Series loss, second round loss, first round loss.

I'm not 100% sure fans here would accept that, wrapped by a 3-5 year window of missing the playoffs on each side like it is, if that was the Wings.

I am also an extremely distant MLB viewer but must say those years were fun and brought a good buzz to the city and the Tigers. Getting swept in the 2012 WS was a serious punch in the gut, could some Tigers fans see then the window was closed then? Was it even that open? I thought trading Scherzer was the stupidest move- that was the end as far as I knew.

Posters who've criticized the Wings slow decline didn't appreciate the way we backed into the PO's the last 3 seasons. 7 days of extra hockey and a participation ribbon were just not fulfilling. It's all context. How did a young team like Edmonton feel losing in the 2nd round to Anaheim in a game 7? Probably proud for their accomplishment but their belief in the future has to have been strengthened.

I read the "Michigan Sports" thread regularly looking for insight into the Tigers. Interesting discussion here as it appears both teams are at the bottom of their swings. Really liking the comparisons from those who follow both.

 

[avssuc]

Tigers. No salary cap, lots of good players to trade for prospects

And it's not even close. If done properly, the rebuild will be done prior to the Wings even starting a rebuild.

I'd go even farther and say that it's possible the Pistons and Lions could crash and be rebuilt prior to the Wings. The streak and new arena give the Wings far more room to milk the consumer here.

 

[njx9]

I'd go even farther and say that it's possible the Pistons and Lions could crash and be rebuilt prior to the Wings. The streak and new arena give the Wings far more room to milk the consumer here.

I've given up all hope of the Lions ever being built in the first place. The Wings will win 50 Cups before they ever sniff the NFC Championship again, let alone the Super Bowl.

 

[HockeyinHD]

The Tigers were a contender, so don't act like they weren't.

Enh. Seems like you're moving the goalposts.

EDIT: Something about your comment triggered a memory, and since I don't go full Stump the Schwab on my baseball trivia I had to go back and check. In '12, the year the Tigers went to the series, they were t-11th in the standings and t-12th run differential. If that kind of regular season signifies a 'contender', well... that'd be a stretch IMO. I think you're doing the ol' 'the results justified the hindsight' kind of deal.

I think the Tigers were a pretty good team, but I don't think they ever got into the kind of echelon people here demand of the Wings, or at least not for more than a season at most.

Also, it's not being compared to which organization had more success. What's being compared is who will become a contender first from here on out.

Partially true. I was having a little fun at the notion of rebuilt being applied to a team that never achieved anywhere close to the success the Wings did and need to be rebuilt from.

Lastly, how many teams make the MLB postseason again? And despite that, the Tigers still have twice as many series victories as the Wings do since that 4 year run that you alluded too.

So, you're saying you'd rather 1, 2, 1, 0, MP, MP than 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, MP? Bold words!

But go on, make this something that it's not just to pacify the Wings per usual.

 

[HockeyinHD]

I've given up all hope of the Lions ever being built in the first place. The Wings will win 50 Cups before they ever sniff the NFC Championship again, let alone the Super Bowl.

That story about the random fan crashing the teams spring practice just to rant at them... I mean, that's pretty much what every Lions fan has wanted to do for around a decade, right?

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I am also an extremely distant MLB viewer but must say those years were fun and brought a good buzz to the city and the Tigers. Getting swept in the 2012 WS was a serious punch in the gut, could some Tigers fans see then the window was closed then? Was it even that open? I thought trading Scherzer was the stupidest move- that was the end as far as I knew.

Posters who've criticized the Wings slow decline didn't appreciate the way we backed into the PO's the last 3 seasons. 7 days of extra hockey and a participation ribbon were just not fulfilling. It's all context. How did a young team like Edmonton feel losing in the 2nd round to Anaheim in a game 7? Probably proud for their accomplishment but their belief in the future has to have been strengthened.

I read the "Michigan Sports" thread regularly looking for insight into the Tigers. Interesting discussion here as it appears both teams are at the bottom of their swings. Really liking the comparisons from those who follow both.

Tigers didn't trade Scherzer. They offered him 6/144M and he turned it down.

Good call on his part because he got 7/210 (even though the 210 is deferred and the 144 isn't, it's still about 30M more when it comes to present value)... but the Tigers didn't get anything back for him.

 

[PelagicJoe]

And it's not even close. If done properly, the rebuild will be done prior to the Wings even starting a rebuild.

I'd go even farther and say that it's possible the Pistons and Lions could crash and be rebuilt prior to the Wings. The streak and new arena give the Wings far more room to milk the consumer here.

The NFL draft is relevant immediately, especially for early rounders. Most NHL draft picks stew in the minors for a few years before seeing the light of day, especially in Detroit. The NHL salary cap also forces teams to draft well. Recovering from bad drafting by signing high profile free agents is a thing of the past now thanks to the cap.

 

[RedWingsfan55]

Wings the tigers are in denial over a need to rebuild and you cant fix problems you dont see.

And Ken Holland isn't?
Lol



Too be honest both teams have similar issues.

It started at the top with illitch and both organizations need to clean house.

The tigers have some of the worst scouts and prospect pool but have quite a bit of talent that they can trade for prospect to rebuild.

The wings have great scouts and some decent prospects but lack the top end talent. There's a reason why they're in steady decline. They also have a GM who is allergic to big name free agents and trades.

Both teams could have a rebuild done in 5 years or less or could screw it up and be **** for 15 years. These next couple seasons will provide clarity.

 

[vladdy16]

We're talking about the Tigers apex being a 4 year run of second round loss, Series loss, second round loss, first round loss.

Haha, only HiHD would slyly tip the scales for his argument by refering to making the World Series simply as 'Series loss'.

And you're diconnecting the 2006 team from the 2012 team for no reason.

The Tigers were always flawed but they kept the window open an unusually long time. Multiple times they had an embarassment of riches in the middle of the lineup and starting rotation. In the end they were never able to maintain that firepower while adding a bullpen and bench, but it was a valiant effort, and I think you could teach a class on sports management based on the impact Dombrowski had on the Tigers.

To the topic at hand... my biggest concern is if the goal of these rebuilds is actually competition based.

The actual sports based brain trusts of these clubs is dissipating, while the general sphere of outside influence is growing, and I feel like both teams are being groomed to deliver a reliable/consistent product, as opposed to putting resources into being cutting edge. Hopefully the teams just legitimately stink and I'm conflating that with the stench of nepotism.

 

[sepster]

Wings the tigers are in denial over a need to rebuild and you cant fix problems you dont see.

Exactly what I was going to say, let me know when each team picks their head out of the sand and realize they NEED to rebuild, then we'll talk.

 

[guinness]

Baseball is different than hockey, you can have high picks toil in the various levels of minor league for years (Florida, Arizona, rookie, short A, A, AA, AAA), hockey you've already got a leg up with the level of competition in the CHL, NCAA, Europe, and two levels of minors, and some players can contribute right away, mostly the high 1st rounders.

The Tigers are going to be rough for awhile, bad contracts in their 30's, and the Tigers have traditionally had a terrible minor league system. Avila isn't likely the team's GM of the future, but Mr. I sure liked the big hitters, problem is that the big hitters have been largely quiet, and saddled with bad contracts.

The biggest issue with DD, is that the Tigers bullpen was an issue for a decade, it never really got better, the 2013 team was amazing, better than 2012 IMO, till the bullpen fell apart against Boston.

The Wings problem, is that most of their recent picks have busted, which makes it hard to replace an aging core, doesn't help that Kenny is loyal to a fault.