Red Wings/ Tigers who's rebuild gets done first?

[theD86]

The Tigers & Wings face long retools/ rebuilds. Both have the same owner. Both let their g.m.'s let the core players grow old and stats drop.

So with a 5-10 year window for a revamped team. Who get's there first?

My guess.......... Red Wings. Better young talent

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[Martinez]

Tigers. No salary cap, lots of good players to trade for prospects

 

[Retire91]

Gonna go with Tigers. They are not run by the longest tenured GM who executes the fewest trades and thinks he is one near retirement vet away from the stanley cup on a 25th placed team.

 

[Ezekial]

Gonna go with Tigers. They are not run by the longest tenured GM who executes the fewest trades and thinks he is one near retirement vet away from the stanley cup on a 25th placed team.

Neither does the Wings GM...

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Two reasons for the Tigers to come out first.

1. How the MLB draft works. Worst team gets the 1st pick.
2. No real salary cap

 

[Retire91]

Two reasons for the Tigers to come out first.

1. How the MLB draft works. Worst team gets the 1st pick.
2. No real salary cap

yeah in all seriousness this right here, the rebuild tools are just better in the MLB

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Red Wings.

For all the hang-wringing over their cap issues and whatever... they have guys that they actually can move that will make a difference to their cap status.

Tigers have good players that they can deal... but they're not gonna get crap for Verlander or Miggy... and even if they do, those players they would get are generally a minimum of three or four years away.

They're going to have to eat dozens of millions of dollars... and the vast majority of the "big market" teams that normally would be dumping grounds for megadeals have come around to small market thinking. Yankees and Dodgers aren't taking super deals anymore. Not willynilly like they used to.

Tigers also have an edict from on high that they need to cut payroll. Might not have a salary cap, but they can't just keep spending anymore.

Also, in the NHL, if you hit on a lottery pick, you get good very quickly. Particularly if you already have your supporting players in place. Wings really could jump back up surprisingly if they landed a guy like Rasmus Dahlin and he jumped in the league like a young Erik Karlsson.

Edmonton went from a piece of crap team in 2014 to a serious contender this year. Toronto went from abysmal piece of **** team to playoff team in about three years.

 

[Retire91]

I don't know if trade value of the players really factors in for the wings when you have the least trading GM in the league who also hasn't won a trade since what 2008?

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

Both franchises are run by incompetent GM's, lackluster Head Coach/Manager, the same 5 or 6 problems that have plagued both for years while nothing is done to fix it, and the current ownership (not named Mr. I when he was healthy) have shown little in the way of desire & will to do what is necessary to get back to the top.

I have very little hope for either in the near future, sadly.

 

[Frk It]

I really could care less, but in baseball you can buy star players, whereas in hockey you pretty much have to draft them.

So you would think that building a team in baseball is easier than hockey, in a general sense. Especially if you are one of the teams that spend money.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Two reasons for the Tigers to come out first.

1. How the MLB draft works. Worst team gets the 1st pick.
2. No real salary cap

I don't follow the MLB draft enough to know the ins and outs, but isn't there some funny business that happens if a team doesn't believe they can afford a player?

For example, when Detroit drafted Porcello. He wouldn't have fallen to them if Boras wasn't his agent.

As far as the Tigers vs the Wings, the Tigers certainly have some assets to move that can bring in some major young talent. So when you combine that with no true cap (despite Detroit likely spending less for the forseeable future), the Tigers unfortunately seems like the choice here. Plus they already have Fulmer who in hockey terms is looking like a future top pairing blueliner.

 

[19 for president]

The Tigers can rebuild faster thanks to no cap, having better tradeable assets (JD, Miggy, JV, etc), and the way draft picks are structured.

With that said though, I think the Wings win another championship before the Tigers do. The Wings are going to be rebuilding until all of those contracts go away. So you are looking at probably another 3-4 years. If Holland makes some great moves, maybe a bit less. The one things the Wings do pretty well even now is draft, and they are going to have some great picks. When they come out, I think they come out strong.

Plus lets be real the Tigers basically were failed contenders for a decade because they never bothered to address their disaster of a bullpen. For as much as we gripe about the Wings, when they were legit contenders they addressed their weaknesses.

 

[aar000n]

Wings the tigers are in denial over a need to rebuild and you cant fix problems you dont see.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Easier in MLB and the draft isn't like super lucky

God the MLB draft is terrible though. It's mid season still isn't it? Why?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Easier in MLB and the draft isn't like super lucky

God the MLB draft is terrible though. It's mid season still isn't it? Why?

I think it was today...

I have more faith in the Wings doing this than the Tigers in all honesty. I don't think either team is going to be very good for the next couple years though.

 

[FireBird71]

I think it was today...

I have more faith in the Wings doing this than the Tigers in all honesty. I don't think either team is going to be very good for the next couple years though.

On now....Tigers pick a guy they picked out of HS. Another stud and will be pitching in the CWS. Also was in the conversation for 1st overall at the beginning of the season

 

[Winger98]

The Tigers. They have better trade pieces that will carry more value and be easier to deal. Also, without a salary floor, there's always going to be another team or three looking to dump talent the moment they start getting expensive. With a little bit of luck, I think we'll see Avila re-stock the cupboards in a hurry.

Easier in MLB and the draft isn't like super lucky

God the MLB draft is terrible though. It's mid season still isn't it? Why?

Could it be at least partially to do with when HS and college baseball seasons are? They're spring sports, so the seasons would be ending right about now. If it was held in the fall after the season, we'd have guys who came out of HS already halfway through their first college years. That's just a wild guess, though.

On now....Tigers pick a guy they picked out of HS. Another stud and will be pitching in the CWS. Also was in the conversation for 1st overall at the beginning of the season

love that we got Faedo where we were picking.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

The Tigers. They have better trade pieces that will carry more value and be easier to deal. Also, without a salary floor, there's always going to be another team or three looking to dump talent the moment they start getting expensive. With a little bit of luck, I think we'll see Avila re-stock the cupboards in a hurry.



Could it be at least partially to do with when HS and college baseball seasons are? They're spring sports, so the seasons would be ending right about now. If it was held in the fall after the season, we'd have guys who came out of HS already halfway through their first college years. That's just a wild guess, though.



love that we got Faedo where we were picking.

Let's just play college baseball in domes. It's not super popular

 

[izlez]

I'm not the biggest baseball guy, but isn't the average time for the top prospects from draft to regular time in the bigs like 3-4-5 years?

So even if you want to say the draft is more of a sure thing (I'm really not sure that it is), that doesn't sound like it lends itself to a quick turnaround

 

[RabidBadger]

Gotta give the edge to The Tigers, as they've already parlayed deadline deals into Fulmer and Norris. They don't need to rely on the draft as much if they can be sharp regarding acquiring prospects.

It just seems easier to retool in baseball. The Yanks were sellers last year and are on a tear this year.

 

[Winger98]

I'm not the biggest baseball guy, but isn't the average time for the top prospects from draft to regular time in the bigs like 3-4-5 years?

So even if you want to say the draft is more of a sure thing (I'm really not sure that it is), that doesn't sound like it lends itself to a quick turnaround

The quick part will come from who they get back in trades and any possible free agent signings they make down the road. As RabidBadger points out, we already grabbed Fulmer and Norris in trades. Have to think we're going to get a haul for JD when Avila moves him. I think Justin Upton is likely moved, too, and he'll bring back something good.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Two reasons for the Tigers to come out first.

1. How the MLB draft works. Worst team gets the 1st pick.
2. No real salary cap

Couldn't agree more, No salary cap in the MLB. Bottom team always get the best picks. Definitely could see the Tigers getting better before the Wings.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Couldn't agree more, No salary cap in the MLB. Bottom team always get the best picks. Definitely could see the Tigers getting better before the Wings.

Tigers have unmovable contracts to players with fantastic track records. They'll never be bad enough with Verlander, Cabrera, Martinez, Upton to be one of the worst teams in baseball.

Tigers have been spending beyond their means for a while and have an edict from ownership to get under the luxury tax and stay under.

Neither of the two points you bring up are relevant at all to the Tigers. And if they were to tank it entirely, they'd need to restock the entire roster. Most of the position prospects they have stink to high heaven. And the league as a whole has gotten wise to the youth revolution that is taking over sports. They're not gonna pay an arm and a leg for Miguel Cabrera in his mid 30s in money AND prospects.

Even if the Tigers got fantastic value for their veterans at their selloff that's likely to come at the trade deadline... most of what they'll get is going to be five years out, if they're lucky.

 

[Beltv]

My gut says the Wings will return to form before Tigers make it to the WS.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Don't the Tigers have to have been built once before we can start talking about a rebuild?

We're talking about the Tigers apex being a 4 year run of second round loss, Series loss, second round loss, first round loss.

I'm not 100% sure fans here would accept that, wrapped by a 3-5 year window of missing the playoffs on each side like it is, if that was the Wings.