GDT: Red Wings @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30 EST

[jkutswings]

He's here to chew gum and look confused, and he's all out of gum.

+1 for the Duke Nukem reference.

 

[Konnan511]

+1 for the Duke Nukem reference.

Or the movie 'They Live", which came out three years before Duke Nukem.

 

[RedWingzz]

Boy Tatar sure likes to look invisible in spurts doesn't he. That contract is brutal honestly...

He'll be fine. For whatever reason he is always incredibly streaky. Usually it's at the start of the year, then he goes on a tear in the 2nd half. At the end of the day, he'll get his 20 goals, and his 40-50 pts. He is a solid 2nd line Winger that scores in bunches or goes on long cold streaks. Some more consistency would be nice, but we just need to accept the fact that he is a good secondary scorer, and not a top line point producer.

 

[Frk It]

But he's also perhaps your best shooter. So you lose that.

Vanek was a great shooter that also played net front. Same with Franzen. Net front doesn't mean you just stand in front of the net like a statue. You cycle in and out. You can pick up loose pucks in the slot. The notion that Mantha playing net front doesn't allow him to do anything else is just not true.

 

[Redder Winger]

Vanek was a great shooter that also played net front. Same with Franzen. Net front doesn't mean you just stand in front of the net like a statue. You cycle in and out. You can pick up loose pucks in the slot. The notion that Mantha playing net front doesn't allow him to do anything else is just not true.

On the powerplay it sure limits is shooting.

 

[Run the Jewels]

On the powerplay it sure limits is shooting.

The disconnect is he's not Stamkos or Ovechkin. He doesn't have a great shot where he can wind up and score like those guys. He has a very quick release and is tough to move. So he's in the area where you can best utilize his strengths. He's not a great puck handler so he's not going to do much on the half wall. Net front makes the best use of his shot plus he can go retrieve pucks by winning board battles. It seriously baffled me when people disagreed with the Mule comparison, there are some strong similarities.

 

[jkutswings]

Or the movie 'They Live", which came out three years before Duke Nukem.

The video game series pulled references from all over the place, including Star Wars, Indiana Jones, the Terminator, Die Hard, Pulp Fiction, Army of Darkness, and many more.

So yes, the movie happened first. But that quote in particular is more popular in gaming circles than amongst film buffs, so I referenced the game.

 

[Ingvar]

The video game series pulled references from all over the place, including Star Wars, Indiana Jones, the Terminator, Die Hard, Pulp Fiction, Army of Darkness, and many more.

So yes, the movie happened first. But that quote in particular is more popular in gaming circles than amongst film buffs, so I referenced the game.

Well, it's referenced all over the place and is really often misattributed to Duke Nukem 3D. But instead of going into details I'll just post a link to TvTropes and give an obligatory warning that reading something from TvTropes may result in wasting a huge part of your day:
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChewBubblegum

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Nukem says kick ass first.

Nada says chew bubblegum first.

That is the distinction.

 

[One Blurred Eye]

To the subject of Mantha's usage, ideally I'd think you'd deploy someone with some scoring versatility in different ways to strategically exploit particular weaknesses in your various opponents' defenses, rather than assigning them a single, immutable roll in a fixed scheme that will endure from now until the end of time, regardless of context and circumstance.

The Franzen comparison I'm not so sure of--some physical and skill similarities certainly, but much of what made Franzen (and Holmstrom for that matter) so effective in that role was psychological. Both #93 and #96 could really get into guys' heads, just with a look or a well placed turn of Swenglish, and they had the discipline to not take too many dumb penalties in retaliation when they had to eat a cross check or a slash, or defend themselves in the ensuing frays. It's not only about the goals they themselves score in the role, but the distraction and frustration that their presence around the net causes for the other team. I don't see Mantha yet, if ever, having that kind of trollish mentality or presence which would dictate his permanent deployment around the net and subjecting him night in and night out to the additional physical toll that comes with it.

Which isn't to say he can't be effective in the role and shouldn't be used there sometimes. But I think his success in it would rely on his being similarly successful further out too, and vice versa, and in hopefully possessing the savvy to help his coach/coordinator understand when to go with one or the other, depending on who's out on the ice against him, or when tossing a wrench into an opposing game plan could put the D on their heels at just the right moment. A single goal scored a particular way in a loss against a defense that isn't exactly a powerhouse isn't enough justification to bake the clay, so to speak, but it is promising to see that he can be effective down there on a limited basis. I just think there's more to be gained by leaving his role somewhat fluid, being more a jack of all trades scoring type than a guy whose production would be improved through specialization.

 

[Redder Winger]

The disconnect is he's not Stamkos or Ovechkin. He doesn't have a great shot where he can wind up and score like those guys. He has a very quick release and is tough to move. So he's in the area where you can best utilize his strengths. He's not a great puck handler so he's not going to do much on the half wall. Net front makes the best use of his shot plus he can go retrieve pucks by winning board battles. It seriously baffled me when people disagreed with the Mule comparison, there are some strong similarities.

He is a good puck handler and he has the patience to skate the pick in close and fire wristshot lasers.

 

[Run the Jewels]

To the subject of Mantha's usage, ideally I'd think you'd deploy someone with some scoring versatility in different ways to strategically exploit particular weaknesses in your various opponents' defenses, rather than assigning them a single, immutable roll in a fixed scheme that will endure from now until the end of time, regardless of context and circumstance.

The Franzen comparison I'm not so sure of--some physical and skill similarities certainly, but much of what made Franzen (and Holmstrom for that matter) so effective in that role was psychological. Both #93 and #96 could really get into guys' heads, just with a look or a well placed turn of Swenglish, and they had the discipline to not take too many dumb penalties in retaliation when they had to eat a cross check or a slash, or defend themselves in the ensuing frays. It's not only about the goals they themselves score in the role, but the distraction and frustration that their presence around the net causes for the other team. I don't see Mantha yet, if ever, having that kind of trollish mentality or presence which would dictate his permanent deployment around the net and subjecting him night in and night out to the additional physical toll that comes with it.

Which isn't to say he can't be effective in the role and shouldn't be used there sometimes. But I think his success in it would rely on his being similarly successful further out too, and vice versa, and in hopefully possessing the savvy to help his coach/coordinator understand when to go with one or the other, depending on who's out on the ice against him, or when tossing a wrench into an opposing game plan could put the D on their heels at just the right moment. A single goal scored a particular way in a loss against a defense that isn't exactly a powerhouse isn't enough justification to bake the clay, so to speak, but it is promising to see that he can be effective down there on a limited basis. I just think there's more to be gained by leaving his role somewhat fluid, being more a jack of all trades scoring type than a guy whose production would be improved through specialization.

See, I never used the Homer comparison because Homer was a severely limited player. He was absolutely brilliant in his role but I would never compare Mantha to him. As a refresher, here are Mule's goals from 2013. As you can see he's scoring most of them from the areas where Mantha is scoring goals. Net front doesn't mean playing exclusively with your back to the goalie.

 

[SimplySolace]

The disconnect is he's not Stamkos or Ovechkin. He doesn't have a great shot where he can wind up and score like those guys. He has a very quick release and is tough to move. So he's in the area where you can best utilize his strengths. He's not a great puck handler so he's not going to do much on the half wall. Net front makes the best use of his shot plus he can go retrieve pucks by winning board battles. It seriously baffled me when people disagreed with the Mule comparison, there are some strong similarities.

Hmm.. (Credit to Claypool)

 

[Run the Jewels]

Hmm.. (Credit to Claypool)

So you're suggesting Mantha play the point? In the NHL? Not sure if serious, please clarify. Is this sarcasm?

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Mantha belongs anywhere at or below the faceoff dot.

 

[Frk It]

Mantha is talented enough to play a number of roles on the PP. I️ just don’t think it’s necessariy a waste if he’s net front.

 

[One Blurred Eye]

See, I never used the Homer comparison because Homer was a severely limited player. He was absolutely brilliant in his role but I would never compare Mantha to him. As a refresher, here are Mule's goals from 2013. As you can see he's scoring most of them from the areas where Mantha is scoring goals. Net front doesn't mean playing exclusively with your back to the goalie.

That's fair, and appreciate your point about that combination of skill and quickness in a sizable package to work magic in tight space. I only threw Holmstrom into the mix, because regardless of how the goals are scored in that area, whether turning off the boards and driving the net, or firing off quick wristers from the low circle or deflecting point bombs, or scrambling for rebounds, being in the vicinity entails a certain amount of additional punishment above the regular hockey grind. Holmstrom was a unique specimen to have endured as long as he did, but even then he was oft injured, and we can guess how taking cross checks to the back of the head in scrums and puck battles around the net served Franzen's health (and, of less importance, deprived the team of a player that might have made one more cup run feasible before the band broke up). It'd be nice to have a guy with that iron-will mentality and the skill to make good on it, willing and able to take his licks night in and night out to put the puck in the damned net, because you need guys like that to succeed in this league, but you have to account for the diminishing effects on your investment too. Maybe the recent rule crackdowns help a bit with that but I just don't see Mantha being able to suffer that aspect for long stretches, and remain productive/healthy over the long term. In the short term, if you're aiming to maintain the facade of competitiveness/watchable hockey, maybe? But the team, skillwise, can ill-afford him out of the lineup for 20 or 30 games, so if you're going to take the risk you best make sure it was worth it. In the long term, he could already be used up in five years physically or mentally, just when this team might be ready to legitimately contend again, and the cost is fully met by the benefit, scoring goals in meaningful games. And while perhaps he'd be easier to replace than a truly elite player, it could be a factor in reducing a competitive window, and for what? To pick up a few more points in a year where we're better of tanking out completely? So, again, not saying don't use him there ever, just be more deliberate and strategic with it, with the assumption that that aspect of his game will probably be more valuable to us a few years down the road than it really is now.