GDT: Red Wings @ Calgary Flames - 9:00 EST

[HIFE]

* Wings looked good because they dug a hole and Calgary was content to sit back. Don't take solace in this effort.
* Horrendous turnovers when it mattered. All but one goal was caused by a turnover.
* Mantha went beast mode for about 15 minutes. Great pass to Frk. Great goal too. Really dumb plays in the final couple minutes of the game, though.
* Larkin wasn't that good. He tried that skate toward the blueline and blindly dump it deep and hope your guy gets the pass, like the play that worked to Abby on Tatar's winner the other night. This time he saw the flipside.
* Johnny Gaudreau was the best player on the ice.
* Nice game for Nielsen.
* Athanasiou can't find a groove out there, but he made several good steals (five takeaways) and passes to set up chances. Still, the Red Wings can't seem to hit him in stride.
* Can't put a lot of blame on Mrazek, but five goals is five goals. He needed to stop at least one of those. Probably the first one.
* Defensively, the Wings looked a little like they did in the Vancouver game, giving wide-open lanes for guys to skate to the net.
* The lines are all ****ed up.
* How many times did Zetterberg fall? While he's had a few decent games, he's been off since the Vancouver disaster.
* Nyquist has to do more to win board battles. He can't keep playing like boy wonder out there.
* Tatar had 3 grade A scoring chances. I like the way he's shooting.
* Trevor Daley is nowhere near as good as I keep reading.
* Frk is proving me wrong and looking like an NHLer.

Nice to read someone tell it like it is. Exciting game? Yeah sure when it was 3-0 and 4-1, over in the 2nd period. Detroit just got owned like we should. Hilarious the Ericsson hate when Daley is just as responsible for the horrible opportunities allowed.

The forward lines were a disaster from conception. Abdelkader is a piece of shit and shouldn't be anywhere near the PP or top 6. I gotta hand it to Trashill, pretty sneaky way to bury AA- as a center on the 4th line while Glendening moves up. Character! Here's what I would rock-

Nyquist-Z-Tatar
Mantha-Larkin-AA/Helm
Frk-Nielsen-AA/Helm
Abdelkader-Glendening-Wilson

Zetterberg, Nyquist, and Tatar can continue to be invisible 80% of most games checking other teams' top lines. Don't waste Mantha up there. Only Larkin has the speed and intensity to match Mantha's energy-keep those two together. Abdelkader skates, handles the puck, and makes idiotic plays like a 4th liner- that's where he should be placed right now.

 

[avssuc]

I hate to say it but Zetterberg really looks like hes hitting a wall right now. He's a possession black hole night in and night out, doesn't look very effective out there.

Also, Frans Nielsen has been great in that third line role with Helm. They dominate their matchup every night.

Maybe giving him some time off would be a good idea. It's probably something he'd never ask for, but I bet if they forced him to take a couple days off, he'd come back better because of it. Even older players need to be managed in some situations.

 

[Claypool]

Nielsen with 6 points (4+2) in the last seven games.

 

[avssuc]

* Trevor Daley is nowhere near as good as I keep reading.

I disagree with the quoted part, but agree with everything else. I haven't watched every second of every game, but what I've seen has been great from him. He plays sound positional defense, always seems to be active in a positive way, and does it all playing with some partners and linemates that aren't playing all that well.

Him and Green are the only top 4 defenseman on this team.

 

[BinCookin]

I disagree with the quoted part, but agree with everything else. I haven't watched every second of every game, but what I've seen has been great from him. He plays sound positional defense, always seems to be active in a positive way, and does it all playing with some partners and linemates that aren't playing all that well.

Him and Green are the only top 4 defenseman on this team.

Also Daley is signed for a very reasonable 3.166 M cap hit as well...

Kronwall is 4.75
Ericson 4.25
Dekeyser 5
Green 6

 

[HIFE]

I disagree with the quoted part, but agree with everything else. I haven't watched every second of every game, but what I've seen has been great from him. He plays sound positional defense, always seems to be active in a positive way, and does it all playing with some partners and linemates that aren't playing all that well.

Him and Green are the only top 4 defenseman on this team.

Labeling Daley a top 4 defenseman is a complete stretch. Look around the league- on what team beside a bankrupt outfit like the Wings would he be a #4? Near 1/2 the NHL has legit 2nd pairs: Enstrom/Byfuglin, Krug/Carlo, Muzzin/Martinez, Subban/Emelin, Parayko/Edmundson, Dumba/Brodin, etc. Almost all teams have at least a solid #3 or younger guys with heavy upside like Sergechev or Gostisbehere. I'd agree there are some questionable #4's and players I don't know but someone look at the list of 125 players and tell me who Daley is better than.

Sadly it's a situation like every Wings player- .5mil overpaid and slotted a position higher than their ability.

 

[KJoe88]

Nice to read someone tell it like it is. Exciting game? Yeah sure when it was 3-0 and 4-1, over in the 2nd period. Detroit just got owned like we should. Hilarious the Ericsson hate when Daley is just as responsible for the horrible opportunities allowed.

The forward lines were a disaster from conception. Abdelkader is a piece of **** and shouldn't be anywhere near the PP or top 6. I gotta hand it to Trashill, pretty sneaky way to bury AA- as a center on the 4th line while Glendening moves up. Character! Here's what I would rock-

Nyquist-Z-Tatar
Mantha-Larkin-AA/Helm
Frk-Nielsen-AA/Helm
Abdelkader-Glendening-Wilson

Zetterberg, Nyquist, and Tatar can continue to be invisible 80% of most games checking other teams' top lines. Don't waste Mantha up there. Only Larkin has the speed and intensity to match Mantha's energy-keep those two together. Abdelkader skates, handles the puck, and makes idiotic plays like a 4th liner- that's where he should be placed right now.

I get criticizing the team, players, management, etc - really I do. Not the that I’m super happy about how the team is functioning atm...

However, is it really necessary to call a hockey player on your ‘favorite’ team a pos because you don’t see him as a top sixer? Makes everything you say less tolerating to read.

Sometimes the stuff I read here now is so absurd and demoralizing.

Anyways, Mantha was the best player on the ice tonight. He’s going to be a star one day. This I am sure of.

 

[Classicnamesup]

Maybe giving him some time off would be a good idea. It's probably something he'd never ask for, but I bet if they forced him to take a couple days off, he'd come back better because of it. Even older players need to be managed in some situations.

If Z needs time off less than a quarter of the way into the season then we are in for an even uglier fall than I fathomed

 

[Heaton]

Just watched the highlights, Mrazek didn't have much help on the majority of the goals, that Ericsson turnover was hilariously bad. Mantha continues to impress and he'll only get better.

 

[pz29]

The low-light of the game for me was Daley literally standing and watching as the third goal was being scored. Not even trying to intervene or prevent the effective breakaway. That is how a lot of times defenders in my beer league behave, but they do that because they do not have the skills to quickly change direction and challenge the puck carrier. But this is the NHL... The highlight was Mantha's play, even the risky plays at the end with the empty net. At least he was trying to create something.

 

[Redder Winger]

I disagree with the quoted part, but agree with everything else. I haven't watched every second of every game, but what I've seen has been great from him. He plays sound positional defense, always seems to be active in a positive way, and does it all playing with some partners and linemates that aren't playing all that well.

Him and Green are the only top 4 defenseman on this team.

I remember Green was a #5 on Washington.
Daley is mediocre.
Going to back to his Dallas days, he always had the tools to be an offensive defenseman, but his defense was awful.
He fit on Pittsburgh because their game plan was to get the puck and move it out fast.

But he doesn't do that on Detroit.
And when he's playing his own zone, he doesn't take angles right. He switches off at the wrong time. He backs off way too much for a guy who is supposed to be a good skater and allows wide-open lanes.

And for a guy who is supposed to have some offensive ability, I'm look at 17 games 0-1-1.

I get playing him more than Jensen or XO, and he's not as dumb with the puck as Ericsson. But he's pretty mediocre.

 

[TatarTangle]

I get criticizing the team, players, management, etc - really I do. Not the that I’m super happy about how the team is functioning atm...

However, is it really necessary to call a hockey player on your ‘favorite’ team a pos because you don’t see him as a top sixer? Makes everything you say less tolerating to read.

Sometimes the stuff I read here now is so absurd and demoralizing.

Anyways, Mantha was the best player on the ice tonight. He’s going to be a star one day. This I am sure of.

Abdelkader is an easy target for people. I skate with a group who at the very least played at Michigan. These guys know how to play hockey. What I have found is there are two camps; one group thinks he's a good hockey player, the other group thinks he sucks. Personally, I'm putting my stock in the former. But that isn't to say Abdelkader is overpaid and misused, he isn't a $4 mil player. But it's hard to blame a guy for taking as much money as possible, I don't think people here would say no to a huge raise at work.

 

[Redder Winger]

I get criticizing the team, players, management, etc - really I do. Not the that I’m super happy about how the team is functioning atm...

However, is it really necessary to call a hockey player on your ‘favorite’ team a pos because you don’t see him as a top sixer? Makes everything you say less tolerating to read.

Sometimes the stuff I read here now is so absurd and demoralizing.

Anyways, Mantha was the best player on the ice tonight. He’s going to be a star one day. This I am sure of.

What's demoralizing is watching Abdelkader, since 2012, blindly throw pucks into feet to kill offensive zone shifts.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Abdelkader is an easy target for people. I skate with a group who at the very least played at Michigan. These guys know how to play hockey. What I have found is there are two camps; one group thinks he's a good hockey player, the other group thinks he sucks. Personally, I'm putting my stock in the former. But that isn't to say Abdelkader is overpaid and misused, he isn't a $4 mil player. But it's hard to blame a guy for taking as much money as possible, I don't think people here would say no to a huge raise at work.

I don't think people consider Abdelkader a bad person for looking for the money.

But we are judging his play based on what he earns because that is how much it costs the team in cap space to have him on the roster. I do not believe calling someone a POS makes much sense, and I can understand he is in the top 1% of hockey players in the world, but that does not mean he is a "good" player relative to the rest of those players in the top 1%, which is what matters.

 

[TatarTangle]

I don't think people consider Abdelkader a bad person for looking for the money.

But we are judging his play based on what he earns because that is how much it costs the team in cap space to have him on the roster. I do not believe calling someone a POS makes much sense, and I can understand he is in the top 1% of hockey players in the world, but that does not mean he is a "good" player relative to the rest of those players in the top 1%, which is what matters.

True.

But there are plenty other contracts on the team that you can quickly judge before Abdlekaders. If Helm is a $3 million player and DeKeyser is a $5 million player then Kate is gonna divorce Justin on their honeymoon and come crawling to me.

I'm judging Abelkader based on my own personal experience and living vicariously through others who more or less played professionally whether it be here or Europe. Relative to his contract, yea, he should put up more points but that doesn't detract the point that he's a lot better than what people give him credit for. I hate to sound like a coach but he does a lot of the little things right. Hold my beer, I gotta go get some gum and a stupid look on my face.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

You judge players based on what they are expected to do. When you agree to 4.25 million a year, you also take on the expectation to be worth that kind of money.

Unfortunately this roster is loaded with players that don't come close to living up to their contractual obligations.

Moving onto the actual game, I was thoroughly entertained. Hopefully the Wings lose every game in a similar fashion. If the Wings have a repeat performance of last season, it will just be another wasted season.

Mantha looked good.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Wings played great last game, Team is showing some fire

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I remember Green was a #5 on Washington.
Daley is mediocre.
Going to back to his Dallas days, he always had the tools to be an offensive defenseman, but his defense was awful.
He fit on Pittsburgh because their game plan was to get the puck and move it out fast.

But he doesn't do that on Detroit.
And when he's playing his own zone, he doesn't take angles right. He switches off at the wrong time. He backs off way too much for a guy who is supposed to be a good skater and allows wide-open lanes.

And for a guy who is supposed to have some offensive ability, I'm look at 17 games 0-1-1.

I get playing him more than Jensen or XO, and he's not as dumb with the puck as Ericsson. But he's pretty mediocre.

That is literally the game plan of every team in the NHL. Daley isn't some brilliant player but he gets to and moves pucks. As the logic goes, the less time you spend in the defensive zone, the less time you play defense. This is what makes moving pucks a higher-order skill.

There are a lot of things to bitch about with this team. Daley isn't towards the top of the list, even after a showing like last night.

 

[Redder Winger]

I don't think people consider Abdelkader a bad person for looking for the money.

But we are judging his play based on what he earns because that is how much it costs the team in cap space to have him on the roster. I do not believe calling someone a POS makes much sense, and I can understand he is in the top 1% of hockey players in the world, but that does not mean he is a "good" player relative to the rest of those players in the top 1%, which is what matters.

Yeah, why wouldn't Abby take the money.

If he never gets in the top six he's probably a 3rd/4th liner who plays PK and scores 10-12-22 for us and gets a 3 year, $2M/Y contract.

And we'd all be pretty satisfied with what he brought.

Unfortunately for Abdelakder, when you take the money you invite a new level of scrutiny.

Saying that, it's not Abdelkader's fault the coach puts him on a scoring line.

 

[Redder Winger]

That is literally the game plan of every team in the NHL. Daley isn't some brilliant player but he gets to and moves pucks. As the logic goes, the less time you spend in the defensive zone, the less time you play defense. This is what makes moving pucks a higher-order skill.

There are a lot of things to ***** about with this team. Daley isn't towards the top of the list, even after a showing like last night.

17 games 0-1-1. Come on.
The Penguins are a well-coached, talented team. Their forwards get open. Their D can find them.

You come to the Trashill clusterf*** system and nothing works.

Remember when the Oilers couldn't give away Justin Schultz? Well, he goes to the Penguins and scores 51 points last year. You think Schultz is anything close to that in Detroit?

When you're signing a player from another team, you can't assume he's going to be the same player in your system.

Daley was the right man in the right spot in Pittsburgh after not fitting in with Chicago.
He was always hit and miss in Dallas.
The idea that he's some steadying presence on our blueline just doesn't hold.

By the way, Trevor Daley leads all Detroit defensemen in goals against (13) at 5 on 5. And he's the worst in goals against per 60 - 3.03. He's also second worst in CF%.

So by what standard are you measuring him?

 

[Beltv]

17 games 0-1-1. Come on.
The Penguins are a well-coached, talented team. Their forwards get open. Their D can find them.

You come to the Trashill cluster**** system and nothing works.

Remember when the Oilers couldn't give away Justin Schultz? Well, he goes to the Penguins and scores 51 points last year. You think Schultz is anything close to that in Detroit?

When you're signing a player from another team, you can't assume he's going to be the same player in your system.

Daley was the right man in the right spot in Pittsburgh after not fitting in with Chicago.
He was always hit and miss in Dallas.
The idea that he's some steadying presence on our blueline just doesn't hold.

By the way, Trevor Daley leads all Detroit defensemen in goals against (13) at 5 on 5. And he's the worst in goals against per 60 - 3.03. He's also second worst in CF%.

So by what standard are you measuring him?

Doesn't daley play the toughest minutes too? I don't really get into the advance stats debate much. Competition has to be higher than all of our other D.

 

[Redder Winger]

Doesn't daley play the toughest minutes too? I don't really get into the advance stats debate much. Competition has to be higher than all of our other D.

I haven't checked. But even if it is, he's the worst on the team.

 

[RedWingzz]

"Very, very, very disappointing," Devellano told Fox Sports' Keith Gave. "And I say that with a lot of sadness. Coming out of junior, we had such high hopes for him." -Jim Devellano on Anthony Mantha

Let's all collectively point our fingers and laugh at Jim Devellano.

 

[Ezekial]

Shoulda just kept Marchenko, eh Redder?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I haven't checked. But even if it is, he's the worst on the team.

Yeah but when you're talking about corsi for an individual player over only 17 games, I don't know that you can put a lot of stock in it.

I'm not saying he's great. He's another middle of the pack defenseman being asked to play over his head on this team.