GDT: Red Wings @ Calgary Flames - 9:00 EST

[HisNoodliness]

The fact of the matter is that the red wings have no defenseman that belong on the top line besides maybe Green who contributes offense amazingly well, but isn't a top pairing D defensively. Whoever gets put on the first pairing and has to deal with difficult minutes and opposition looks bad. Ericsson is fine if he's on the third line, but he and Kronwall were terrible on the first line last season. Dekeyser looks fine on the second line, awful against top competition. Daley is suffering from that right now. He's an ok defenseman but he's in over his head. He would look fine as a 4D, but he can't cut it where he's being forced to play.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

"Very, very, very disappointing," Devellano told Fox Sports' Keith Gave. "And I say that with a lot of sadness. Coming out of junior, we had such high hopes for him." -Jim Devellano on Anthony Mantha

Let's all collectively point our fingers and laugh at Jim Devellano.

You'd think that his cattle analogy during the 2012 lockout would have convinced Jimmy or upper management to put a sock in it, but no. Guy needs to just stop talking.

 

[Redder Winger]

Yeah but when you're talking about corsi for an individual player over only 17 games, I don't know that you can put a lot of stock in it.

I'm not saying he's great. He's another middle of the pack defenseman being asked to play over his head on this team.

But 17 games is what I'm talking about.
His advanced stats suck.
His normal stats suck.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Unfortunately this roster is loaded with players that don't come close to living up to their contractual obligations.

This sums it up. Holland doesn't have any interest in doing the hard work and taking on the risk of making trades and he has no interest in acquiring elite talent the way the league distributes elite talent so he overpays his guys across the board and expects people to be impressed. And then the Holland defenders whine about how we need a playoff series in order for the team to break even as if I have the slightest number of f***s to give about that, particularly when you are well over the cap with a roster where so few players are actually fun to watch.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I hate to say it but Zetterberg really looks like hes hitting a wall right now. He's a possession black hole night in and night out, doesn't look very effective out there.

At his age there is no way he is going to have sustained success. He started very strongly this year but he's going to continue to fade. Too bad there's no Olympics, he could use the time off.

 

[Claypool]

This sums it up. Holland doesn't have any interest in doing the hard work and taking on the risk of making trades and he has no interest in acquiring elite talent the way the league distributes elite talent so he overpays his guys across the board and expects people to be impressed. And then the Holland defenders whine about how we need a playoff series in order for the team to break even as if I have the slightest number of ****s to give about that, particularly when you are well over the cap with a roster where so few players are actually fun to watch.

Who do you want this team to trade for elite talent?

 

[WingedWheel1987]

This sums it up. Holland doesn't have any interest in doing the hard work and taking on the risk of making trades and he has no interest in acquiring elite talent the way the league distributes elite talent so he overpays his guys across the board and expects people to be impressed. And then the Holland defenders whine about how we need a playoff series in order for the team to break even as if I have the slightest number of ****s to give about that, particularly when you are well over the cap with a roster where so few players are actually fun to watch.

Green and Nyquist should definitely be traded away for picks. Nyquist has one more year left on his current contract and extending him for another 4-5 years would be incredibly dumb.

 

[Redder Winger]

Green and Nyquist should definitely be traded away for picks. Nyquist has one more year left on his current contract and extending him for another 4-5 years would be incredibly dumb.

They want to keep the Swedes around for Z. They need to keep him happy so he LTIRs instead of retires.
My guess is that if Z retires after this season, Nyquist will be traded next year.
But if Z returns for next season, Nyquist might finish out the year with Detroit.

 

[Winger98]

At his age there is no way he is going to have sustained success. He started very strongly this year but he's going to continue to fade. Too bad there's no Olympics, he could use the time off.

Not if we keep running him out there for 20 minutes a night. Nielsen's been winning faceoffs at a 48% clip since Oct. 29. At some point, I think we need Larkin getting 20 minutes a night to become the norm, for Nielsen to assume that second line center spot, and for Z to slide into the third line C spot where he can grab around 16-17 minutes a night. Z's averaging nearly 20 minutes a night still, the lion's share of it at ES, and his linemates rarely do a lot of the heavy lifting. He either needs fewer minutes or stronger linemates.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Who do you want this team to trade for elite talent?

With the corner Holland painted himself into the only real option was to trade guys like Abdelkader and Helm for a draft pick and hope that draft pick turned into the next Lidstrom, Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Wasn't even willing to take on that risk, so he overpaid for mediocre talent. We'll see if Holland finally learns and trades Green before the TDL.

 

[Claypool]

With the corner Holland painted himself into the only real option was to trade guys like Abdelkader and Helm for a draft pick and hope that draft pick turned into the next Lidstrom, Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Wasn't even willing to take on that risk, so he overpaid for mediocre talent. We'll see if Holland finally learns and trades Green before the TDL.

You said Holland should have traded for elite talent. What players on the current roster should he trade and what elite talent should have have traded for? Cite specific examples, please.

 

[Run the Jewels]

You said Holland should have traded for elite talent. What players on the current roster should he trade and what elite talent should have have traded for? Cite specific examples, please.

What I was alluding to is how Holland says he doesn't want to rebuild, which is how the league distributes the vast majority of elite talent.

 

[avssuc]

If Z needs time off less than a quarter of the way into the season then we are in for an even uglier fall than I fathomed

Maybe he trained too much in the off-season? Maybe he has a sick kid keeping him up late? There's a million reasons why he might need a rest. I doubt he will just fall off the face of the planet.

 

[TheMule93]

He might also need rest because he's old

 

[HIFE]

They want to keep the Swedes around for Z. They need to keep him happy so he LTIRs instead of retires.
My guess is that if Z retires after this season, Nyquist will be traded next year.
But if Z returns for next season, Nyquist might finish out the year with Detroit.

I had this off-beat theory that Nyquist would stay forever to keep some type of ties to our Swedish allegiance of the 2000's. Say Z or Lidstrom visit there is fellow countryman to connect with. Most people disregarded the idea saying that pro teams don't retain players for such superficial purposes but I still wonder.

Even further OT but in 2013-14 the Wings had 9 Swedes on the roster, pretty amazing.

 

[Redder Winger]

I had this off-beat theory that Nyquist would stay forever to keep some type of ties to our Swedish allegiance of the 2000's. Say Z or Lidstrom visit there is fellow countryman to connect with. Most people disregarded the idea saying that pro teams don't retain players for such superficial purposes but I still wonder.

Even further OT but in 2013-14 the Wings had 9 Swedes on the roster, pretty amazing.

We could be Swedeless within two years.
Z/Kronwall LTIR/Retirement
Franzen LTIR
Nyquist UFA
Ericsson bought out

 

[Oddbob]

Daley isn't so much an offensive defenseman as he is a puck moving defenceman, there is a difference. Daley has played fine, some people here just want to nitpick everything to death. He wasn't brought in to be a miracle worker, he signed a fairly cheap deal to add depth to our team, which he has done, without him, we would have been far worse off, and I was never really a fan of the guy before he got here. Obviously he has to play above his position on this team because we have no one else capable of doing so, so it will make him look worse in comparison. All this complaining as well, and in the last 5 -6 games we have played quite well with our lackluster roster.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

The fact of the matter is that the red wings have no defenseman that belong on the top line besides maybe Green who contributes offense amazingly well, but isn't a top pairing D defensively. Whoever gets put on the first pairing and has to deal with difficult minutes and opposition looks bad. Ericsson is fine if he's on the third line, but he and Kronwall were terrible on the first line last season. Dekeyser looks fine on the second line, awful against top competition. Daley is suffering from that right now. He's an ok defenseman but he's in over his head. He would look fine as a 4D, but he can't cut it where he's being forced to play.

DeKeyser hasn't looked fine even when he has been shielded from the top matchup the last two years. He hasn't progressed at all as a player that is the big problem with him. Daley has looked better while being overmatched than DK has at any point really.