Rebuild Thread III: Buckle up, new season starts NOW!

[Warden of the North]

Old thread full...........and go!

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[SprDaVE]

Let's get this **** started.

 

[thewave]

I am not buckling up nothing. I doubt much happens between the draft and now.

 

[SprDaVE]

I am not buckling up nothing. I doubt much happens between the draft and now.

The rumours man... the rumours.

We all know Shanahan has a direct line to Dean Blundell to leak his information.

 

[MJ65]

The rumours man... the rumours.

We all know Shanahan has a direct line to Dean Blundell to leak his information.

Joke aside - do you think teams will hold on until draft day to announce any deals?

 

[SprDaVE]

Joke aside - do you think teams will hold on until draft day to announce any deals?

I don't know. I tend to believe that if a trade is agreed upon, they announce it right away... why wait?

Teams over the next week will meet and talk, that's why trades don't happen too much in that span.

There will be a lot of talk between now and the draft though, which will bring rumours and intentions. We'll see what happens.

 

[Daisy Jane]

So let's get some discussion around here.

do y'all think when we start getting the younger core installed, it will benefit them to have some older [who can still play hockey older] wiser veterans around them or would it benefit the team to just be as young as we can and collect the older experience later, when we're wanting to start making playoff strides and the like?

My believe was (and still is) is that I feel that young teams need that older voice/experience. (heck even if they're not that 'good') per se, and I keep referencing Robidas. everyone keeps freaking out that A: he's old, B: he can't Skate and C: his contract, ugh, why do we have him, and my argument is - every time Morgan Rielly and Jake Gardiner open their mouths and go how much they are learning about the game from him, those little things that come from playing 1000+ games. I go money well spent.

as well as I don't want to have an Edmonton situation here. We can have a more mature voice in the dressing room, and everything like that.

his argument was is that Chicago basically let their core develop as is without needed to 'protect' them as well as with Shanahan using himself as a resource, and Babcock won't tolerate a lot of things that happened in Edmonton (and to a lesser extent Colorado before Roy). That things will naturally develop with the younger crowd, and then get the (Older Person etc) and move forward

so what about you guys - how would you like the budding new Leafs to start taking shape?

 

[Trapper]

I don't know. I tend to believe that if a trade is agreed upon, they announce it right away... why wait?

Teams over the next week will meet and talk, that's why trades don't happen too much in that span.

There will be a lot of talk between now and the draft though, which will bring rumours and intentions. We'll see what happens.

When does the NHL release the actual salary cap for 15/16 and not just the projected? Some teams might be waiting on moves until they hear the number.

 

[Turk Broda]

Joke aside - do you think teams will hold on until draft day to announce any deals?

I don't expect any deals to be finalized until the day of the draft and then announced by Gary Bettman.

 

[MJ65]

So let's get some discussion around here.

do y'all think when we start getting the younger core installed, it will benefit them to have some older [who can still play hockey older] wiser veterans around them or would it benefit the team to just be as young as we can and collect the older experience later, when we're wanting to start making playoff strides and the like?

My believe was (and still is) is that I feel that young teams need that older voice/experience. (heck even if they're not that 'good') per se, and I keep referencing Robidas. everyone keeps freaking out that A: he's old, B: he can't Skate and C: his contract, ugh, why do we have him, and my argument is - every time Morgan Rielly and Jake Gardiner open their mouths and go how much they are learning about the game from him, those little things that come from playing 1000+ games. I go money well spent.

as well as I don't want to have an Edmonton situation here. We can have a more mature voice in the dressing room, and everything like that.

his argument was is that Chicago basically let their core develop as is without needed to 'protect' them as well as with Shanahan using himself as a resource, and Babcock won't tolerate a lot of things that happened in Edmonton (and to a lesser extent Colorado before Roy). That things will naturally develop with the younger crowd, and then get the (Older Person etc) and move forward

so what about you guys - how would you like the budding new Leafs to start taking shape?

Exactly - so you need veteran presence in order for these young prospects to mature

 

[Doc300c]

So let's get some discussion around here.

do y'all think when we start getting the younger core installed, it will benefit them to have some older [who can still play hockey older] wiser veterans around them or would it benefit the team to just be as young as we can and collect the older experience later, when we're wanting to start making playoff strides and the like?

My believe was (and still is) is that I feel that young teams need that older voice/experience. (heck even if they're not that 'good') per se, and I keep referencing Robidas. everyone keeps freaking out that A: he's old, B: he can't Skate and C: his contract, ugh, why do we have him, and my argument is - every time Morgan Rielly and Jake Gardiner open their mouths and go how much they are learning about the game from him, those little things that come from playing 1000+ games. I go money well spent.

as well as I don't want to have an Edmonton situation here. We can have a more mature voice in the dressing room, and everything like that.

his argument was is that Chicago basically let their core develop as is without needed to 'protect' them as well as with Shanahan using himself as a resource, and Babcock won't tolerate a lot of things that happened in Edmonton (and to a lesser extent Colorado before Roy). That things will naturally develop with the younger crowd, and then get the (Older Person etc) and move forward

so what about you guys - how would you like the budding new Leafs to start taking shape?

I like Polak for that, works hard every shift, monster in the gym and is someone id like the younger kids to see as a role model who never gives up

 

[Trapper]

So let's get some discussion around here.

do y'all think when we start getting the younger core installed, it will benefit them to have some older [who can still play hockey older] wiser veterans around them or would it benefit the team to just be as young as we can and collect the older experience later, when we're wanting to start making playoff strides and the like?

My believe was (and still is) is that I feel that young teams need that older voice/experience. (heck even if they're not that 'good') per se, and I keep referencing Robidas. everyone keeps freaking out that A: he's old, B: he can't Skate and C: his contract, ugh, why do we have him, and my argument is - every time Morgan Rielly and Jake Gardiner open their mouths and go how much they are learning about the game from him, those little things that come from playing 1000+ games. I go money well spent.

as well as I don't want to have an Edmonton situation here. We can have a more mature voice in the dressing room, and everything like that.

his argument was is that Chicago basically let their core develop as is without needed to 'protect' them as well as with Shanahan using himself as a resource, and Babcock won't tolerate a lot of things that happened in Edmonton (and to a lesser extent Colorado before Roy). That things will naturally develop with the younger crowd, and then get the (Older Person etc) and move forward

so what about you guys - how would you like the budding new Leafs to start taking shape?

We need to concentrate on restocking the organization and not worry about wins or loses, vets or otherwise.
We need the right combination of Leaf drafted players who display skill,speed,smarts and attitude.
We need help at all positions. We need core positions. I like the fact that we can start putting together an AHL squad (Nylander/Brown/Gauthier/etc. that can maybe even win the Calder Cup. Then graduate to the big team.
When the Hawks drafted Keith in 2003, they missed the playoffs for the next 5 years. Not one player on the 2003 roster remained on the team when they won in 2010.
I expect at least 5 years and a complete (or mostly complete) roster turnover (with the exception of Rielly) on this path.

 

[SprDaVE]

When does the NHL release the actual salary cap for 15/16 and not just the projected? Some teams might be waiting on moves until they hear the number.

Great point. That's another thing to keep in mind, all though Bettman said that they have a strong idea what the cap number is, just not officially, so I think teams have a good idea of how much they can spend either way.

 

[fahad203]

This draft is going to be a turning point. We have one really good position one descent in a very deep draft. 2011 was supposed to be the turning point instead we pretty much wasted it by drafting 2 players that could have been available in second round which we also traded

I am very keen on seeing how Shanny and crew tries to get rid of the old vets. I suspect the writing is on the wall for some players. Now that teams knows what they want, have or need, we can fill their positions accordingly

I don't see why Lupul / Bozak shouldn't end up in New Jersey for 2nd 2016 or 3rd rounder 2015 along with Clowe. Clowe NHL career is done. I don't think if Clowe goes into LIR his salary counts towards the cap.

Same goes for Richards in LA and Semin. This is their years to get rid of those contracts and Leafs are in good spots to snatch for for draft picks.

All we need to do is use Chicago as a use case. Their depth won that series against Anaheim. In West nobody is beating Anaheim beside Chicago. If a team doesn't have a game breaker, all beit a lazy one like Kessel, I want him in OT. It was clearly evident for Tempa Bay and St.Louis. Kessel has a bigger market than people give us credit. Leafs are also happy take back salary if needed.

I am patiently waiting to how this summer folds.

 

[Daisy Jane]

We need to concentrate on restocking the organization and not worry about wins or loses, vets or otherwise.
We need the right combination of Leaf drafted players who display skill,speed,smarts and attitude.
We need help at all positions. We need core positions. I like the fact that we can start putting together an AHL squad (Nylander/Brown/Gauthier/etc. that can maybe even win the Calder Cup. Then graduate to the big team.
When the Hawks drafted Keith in 2003, they missed the playoffs for the next 5 years. Not one player on the 2003 roster remained on the team when they won in 2010.
I expect at least 5 years and a complete (or mostly complete) roster turnover (with the exception of Rielly) on this path.

see that is where I disagree.
yes - we have to concentrate on stocking the organization.

but I quite frankly believe that we have to worry about how they win, and how they lose, especially if we start slicing away the fat of the team, and we're at the younger players etc. Yes there will be huge turn around and what not but the players you identify as the core - then what? how do we want them supported?

like let me stress this, it's not about missing or making the playoffs early, this is strictly about how are we cultivating/nurturing the pieces that we have around that we know will be around like Yes - 2003-2015, lots of Turnaround, Keith being the mainstay.

Tampa only has 2 players since Yzerman took over (and I can't remember if Hedman was a Yzer-drafted or not).

but Stamkos had MSL to lean on. so whilst the losing and the yo-yo factor of that team, the mainstay, that future had a vet/experience guy.

Who does Rielly have? really? (Robidas?)
who will the #4 (24) Pick have really?

again that's why i wonder if Shanahan/Babcock will suffice, or do we have to think about having a mainstay for the key they're always gonna be here guys.

 

[Mess]

Old thread full...........and go!

If all goes as planned this thread should be filled in no time flat.

Commence the roster purging as this scorched earth plan is going to take some serious elbow grease because if we want to become the next Chicago Blackhawks there is plenty of work ahead.

It appears we're set to draft our own Patty Kane in a few weeks so that is a start anyways.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I've been saying this for ages now. The focus need to be on getting assets for the future, but you also have to make sure to get the most out of them. That means developing them well, making sure to bring them up at the right time, and also making sure that you bring them up into the right context.

You don't put the team on the shoulders of prospects and rookies. We need sufficiently good players to insulate the up-coming players so that they can focus on their own development. So that they can do like McKinnon in his rookie season, focus on their own game and do what they do best from a depth position, rather than the Edmonton kids, having to shoulder the weight of a franchise when they are still learning their trade. We also want to make sure that there's a certain way to do things as a Leafs player. Set standards both on and off the ice. Being talented shouldn't be enough, not anymore.

So yeah, getting good character veterans to help establish what it means in terms of professionality to be a Leafs player is important. I want that framework in place before our key prospects start to arrive at the big scene. As for insulation, we got that covered among D-men but up front it's thinner, especially if we move JVR or Kadri.

 

[HarrisonFord]

Loved seeing that tweet last night!

Let's get it going! 10 days to go

 

[Trapper]

see that is where I disagree.
yes - we have to concentrate on stocking the organization.

but I quite frankly believe that we have to worry about how they win, and how they lose, especially if we start slicing away the fat of the team, and we're at the younger players etc. Yes there will be huge turn around and what not but the players you identify as the core - then what? how do we want them supported?

like let me stress this, it's not about missing or making the playoffs early, this is strictly about how are we cultivating/nurturing the pieces that we have around that we know will be around like Yes - 2003-2015, lots of Turnaround, Keith being the mainstay.

Tampa only has 2 players since Yzerman took over (and I can't remember if Hedman was a Yzer-drafted or not).

but Stamkos had MSL to lean on. so whilst the losing and the yo-yo factor of that team, the mainstay, that future had a vet/experience guy.

Who does Rielly have? really? (Robidas?)
who will the #4 (24) Pick have really?

again that's why i wonder if Shanahan/Babcock will suffice, or do we have to think about having a mainstay for the key they're always gonna be here guys.

That's assuming any of Nylander/Brown/Gauthier/4th overall/24th overall/whatever else are even here next year.
Yes Babcock can start instilling a "culture" with the Leaf roster he begins with and grooming a player like Rielly. (Perhaps they find a partner for Rielly) Winning is important but learning to be a daily hard working competing pro can be done. Thats Babcock's first challenge. Build an NHL that plays a solid 200 foot game while our collected pieces mature. Babcock and Keefe should be on the same page, one grooming the Marlies while Babcock creates the accepted style of NHL play.

 

[deletethis]

I've been saying this for ages now. The focus need to be on getting assets for the future, but you also have to make sure to get the most out of them. That means developing them well, making sure to bring them up at the right time, and also making sure that you bring them up into the right context.

You don't put the team on the shoulders of prospects and rookies. We need sufficiently good players to insulate the up-coming players so that they can focus on their own development. So that they can do like McKinnon in his rookie season, focus on their own game and do what they do best from a depth position, rather than the Edmonton kids, having to shoulder the weight of a franchise when they are still learning their trade. We also want to make sure that there's a certain way to do things as a Leafs player. Set standards both on and off the ice. Being talented shouldn't be enough, not anymore.

So yeah, getting good character veterans to help establish what it means in terms of professionality to be a Leafs player is important. I want that framework in place before our key prospects start to arrive at the big scene. As for insulation, we got that covered among D-men but up front it's thinner, especially if we move JVR or Kadri.

I hope Leafs fans reserve judgment on any veteran acquisitions that are made along side with the expected "purge" of core talents. These veterans won't be very good NHL players who bring instant respectability. They will be chosen to change the environment to a more serious team-first atmosphere. I think they have a head start with consummate pros like Polak, Robidas (although he's nearly finished as a player, may get bought out) and Komarov plus young players like Gardiner and especially Reilly who really seem to take their preparations seriously.

 

[Mess]

I was disappointed when Bettman was handing out the Cup yesterday to Hawks that while he had the mic that he didn't follow up that procedure with "we have a trade to announce, Toronto trades ..."

 

[WTFMAN99]

I was disappointed when Bettman was handing out the Cup yesterday to Hawks that while he had the mic that he didn't follow up that procedure with "we have a trade to announce, Toronto trades ..."

I wonder if we have to wait until the draft to see Toronto trades? Deals have been done days in advance, so we could see some action ahead of the draft.

 

[SprDaVE]

 

[slozo]

To Daisy's point,
Yes - any well run rebuilding team needs solid pros. Players who are professional in every sense of the word.

That's why I think we'll keep Polak, and perhaps even Phaneuf (will be dealt eventually however). Robidas is probably past his due date unfortunately, and my guess is, if Phaneuf is dealt, we acquire another Polak-type back.

Among the forwards...maybe it's Lupul who stays for the short term, and that's probably more due to not a good enough return and him doing us more good on the team than the assets we could get back for him.

I don't see JVR getting dealt. His age still fits, and unlike Kessel, I think he's still able to be molded into a more complete player.

 

[Daisy Jane]

That's assuming any of Nylander/Brown/Gauthier/4th overall/24th overall/whatever else are even here next year.
Yes Babcock can start instilling a "culture" with the Leaf roster he begins with and grooming a player like Rielly. (Perhaps they find a partner for Rielly) Winning is important but learning to be a daily hard working competing pro can be done. Thats Babcock's first challenge. Build an NHL that plays a solid 200 foot game while our collected pieces mature. Babcock and Keefe should be on the same page, one grooming the Marlies while Babcock creates the accepted style of NHL play.

but I didn't say they would be? i'm not just talking about this year, Trap - i'm talking in general.

For me, I just think of all the amazing players in the game and they had "that guy" to lean on etc . and it wasn't just their coach or the president of the organization. I'm not dismissing it, and that's why Shanahan worked so hard to get Babcock here and why He + Dubas felt Keefe was the best guy for the Marlies. but again

Crosby 'apprenticed' (so to speak) - under Mario Lemieux.
Stamkos had Vinny & MSL.
again - I don't know/remember about LA (or Chicago). So maybe they didn't have that per se (but then for LA, they weren't as ... wunderkid as Chicago was, I feel like).

Edmonton - they basically had nothing. There was Smith but...

When those players get here - who are they leaning on on a peer basis? Do we think/feel that it matters. I am not talking about winning per se - but how they win needs to be important. (just like how they lose). I don't mean to kick a puppy, but again - look at Edmonton.

Apparently, I was told that most of the "moving forward" parts of Buffalo was spared being the extremely bad that they were for two consecutive years.

When Nylander or Gauthier make the team. (not putting a year on it). who is there support? Whose going to be their "welcome to the NHL" tour guide as a peer. are we happy/confident that it's just Shanahan/Babcock?

I really don't know if I am not. maybe i'm old fashioned though