Reasons we won't go far in playoffs

[JohnLennon]

I'm not going to get into a debate where we try to list which teams were and weren't softer than the Wings who were winning cups. I don't see those teams as soft at all.

When I brought up the Wings, I was talking about the recent Red Wings. I'll even quote myself: "Really? Detroit has had a playoff run for HOW many seasons now? A recent borderline dynasty? They are one of the softest teams in the league." Notice I refer to them in the present tense. I think they are a "softer" team than the Habs, and their teams of recent seasons have been as well. Yet they still find a way to consistently be contenders (save for this year, perhaps, and that's mainly due to injury). Face it, the Wings have been making the playoffs for something like 16 years in a row, but in the recent past they haven't been contenders because of their physicality or toughness. I also think Detroit has better forwards than us, but we have Carey Price, and with him we can honestly go wherever he can take us.

Regardless, I think the Habs are far from soft, so none of that is relevant for me anyways. I will agree that we are undersized, however, and that doesn't pay us any favours.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

When I brought up the Wings, I was talking about the recent Red Wings. I'll even quote myself: "Really? Detroit has had a playoff run for HOW many seasons now? A recent borderline dynasty? They are one of the softest teams in the league." Notice I refer to them in the present tense. I think they are a "softer" team than the Habs, and their teams of recent seasons have been as well. Yet they still find a way to consistently be contenders (save for this year, perhaps, and that's mainly due to injury). Face it, the Wings have been making the playoffs for something like 16 years in a row, but in the recent past they haven't been contenders because of their physicality or toughness. I also think Detroit has better forwards than us, but we have Carey Price, and with him we can honestly go wherever he can take us.

Regardless, I think the Habs are far from soft, so none of that is relevant for me anyways. I will agree that we are undersized, however, and that doesn't pay us any favours.

Well this year's edition of the Wings is going to have a tough time making the playoffs to begin with...

 

[tinyzombies]

Myth.

Chicago is not soft. Bollig and Bickell at forwards.

Brookbank and Seabrook at D.

No sir. Chicago is not soft.

Chicago isn't a physical team, they are a gritty team that moves the puck and skates and digs.

They get hit more than anyone in the league maybe. Toews only throws 30 hits a year maybe. That's not their game.

But they are not soft. They take a beating to get the puck or to make a defensive play. And it works for them.

Being a physical rush team didn't work for Vancouver if you remember. They were all injured by the end of the series. Maybe the main reason Boston won.

We are a defensive, rush team. Not a possession team. And that's probably so that we don't take the hits that Chicago did. Just another approach.

 

[JohnLennon]

Well this year's edition of the Wings is going to have a tough time making the playoffs to begin with...

They are currently without Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg, Stephen Weiss, Dan Cleary, Jonathan Ericsson and Justin Abdelkader. Darren Helm missed the vast majority of the season to injury. Johan Franzen missed a significant portion, as did Mikael Samuelsson and Todd Bertuzzi. Almost all relevant players on their team have missed significant time due to injury. In fact, only 2 or 3 of the players on their entire roster have been able to play every game this season. It's crazy. I think it's safe to say Detroit isn't struggling because they lack physicality...

 

[ECWHSWI]

They are currently without Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg, Stephen Weiss, Dan Cleary, Jonathan Ericsson and Justin Abdelkader. Darren Helm missed the vast majority of the season to injury. Johan Franzen missed a significant portion, as did Mikael Samuelsson and Todd Bertuzzi. Almost all relevant players on their team have missed significant time due to injury. In fact, only 2 or 3 of the players on their entire roster have been able to play every game this season. It's crazy. I think it's safe to say Detroit isn't struggling because they lack physicality...

Detroit
Player Date Status Description
Stephen Weiss 2013-12-11 on injured reserve and is out indefinitely sports hernia surgery
Henrik Zetterberg 2014-02-24 on injured reserve and is out indefinitely back surgery
Pavel Datsyuk 2014-02-28 expected to miss three weeks right knee inflammation
Daniel Cleary 2014-02-28 out indefinitely sprained knee
Tomas Jurco 2014-03-12 expected to miss 2-4 weeks broken rib
Justin Abdelkader 2014-03-17 out indefinitely lacerated leg
Jonathan Ericsson 2014-03-19 will miss at least 4-6 weeks finger surgery


and their #1 G (Howard) missed some time earlier in the season, and Datsyuk is injured for the 2nd time this season (missed some earlier too).

 

[JohnLennon]

Detroit
Player Date Status Description
Stephen Weiss 2013-12-11 on injured reserve and is out indefinitely sports hernia surgery
Henrik Zetterberg 2014-02-24 on injured reserve and is out indefinitely back surgery
Pavel Datsyuk 2014-02-28 expected to miss three weeks right knee inflammation
Daniel Cleary 2014-02-28 out indefinitely sprained knee
Tomas Jurco 2014-03-12 expected to miss 2-4 weeks broken rib
Justin Abdelkader 2014-03-17 out indefinitely lacerated leg
Jonathan Ericsson 2014-03-19 will miss at least 4-6 weeks finger surgery


and their #1 G (Howard) missed some time earlier in the season, and Datsyuk is injured for the 2nd time this season (missed some earlier too).

Exactly! Thank you for the clarification. Certainly awful injury luck. Poor Wings fans!

 

[optimus2861]

The Red Wings have long struck me as a team that is "zen" about physical play. They won't start it, nor will they back down from it, but either way it doesn't phase them in the slightest, and as soon as the physical stuff is over they'll go right back to playing their game.

I think that's a sign of a very well-coached hockey team, which they undoubtedly have been for many, many years. They stay focused on what they have to do to win and don't let themselves get distracted by nonsense on the ice.

Their injury woes have crippled them this year or they'd undoubtedly have more points and be a playoff team.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

They are currently without Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg, Stephen Weiss, Dan Cleary, Jonathan Ericsson and Justin Abdelkader. Darren Helm missed the vast majority of the season to injury. Johan Franzen missed a significant portion, as did Mikael Samuelsson and Todd Bertuzzi. Almost all relevant players on their team have missed significant time due to injury. In fact, only 2 or 3 of the players on their entire roster have been able to play every game this season. It's crazy. I think it's safe to say Detroit isn't struggling because they lack physicality...

It doesn't matter. They aren't going to win anything. If you're going to cite phsyicality as something that doesn't win games and then cite teams that aren't going to win anything, then your argument it moot. Whether those guys were healthy or not, they aren't a threat to win a cup.

The Bruins on the other hand have a legit shot at the cup. And that's due in large part to their physical play.

Again, I don't get why posters try to put it as an "either or" scenario. It's not. Championship teams can beat you in a number of ways because they can play any style. Look at the Habs of the 70s. You want a shootout? No problem. Defensive grinding style? You got it. You want to play rough? We can do that to...

Some teams skew one way or the other in terms of scoring or defense or physical play... but with very few possible exceptions all have some balance. If we were to win it would easily be the smallest softest team to have ever hoisted the cup. We are lacking in that area.

Does that mean we can't overcome it? I don't think we can but we've got the benefit of Price, Subban, Max and Vanek to help us overcome it. The core of this team is good. But the supporting cast is pretty weak. We could pull it off because the East is so freaking weak and Price might carry us. Best case scenario that's what happens for us. But we haven't played well this year apart from goaltending and without Price this club would be a lottery pick.

 

[JohnLennon]

It doesn't matter. They aren't going to win anything. If you're going to cite phsyicality as something that doesn't win games and then cite teams that aren't going to win anything, then your argument it moot. Whether those guys were healthy or not, they aren't a threat to win a cup.

What? Dude come on, read what I write. I've been referring to the recent past, not just this year, and even then the Red Wings are a consistent threat to win a cup. If they were healthy they'd be much higher in the standings. With that quality roster and that coach I'm extremely surprised that you legitimately believe that when healthy the Red Wings aren't even a small threat to win the cup. Another "what have you done for me lately" case, I suppose...

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Chicago isn't a physical team, they are a gritty team that moves the puck and skates and digs.

They get hit more than anyone in the league maybe. Toews only throws 30 hits a year maybe. That's not their game.

But they are not soft. They take a beating to get the puck or to make a defensive play. And it works for them.

Being a physical rush team didn't work for Vancouver if you remember. They were all injured by the end of the series. Maybe the main reason Boston won.

We are a defensive, rush team. Not a possession team. And that's probably so that we don't take the hits that Chicago did. Just another approach.

Chicago is the perfect team. They can play a physical game or they can play a wide open game. They are built to play any kind of hockey. That's the difference between them and us. Hate when people compare us to Chicago or Detroit from a few years ago. They were not soft. They just weren't a physical team. But when it came to it, they could play that game too. Habs will remain soft until they change their identity.

 

[JohnLennon]

Chicago is the perfect team. They can play a physical game or they can play a wide open game. They are built to play any kind of hockey. That's the difference between them and us. Hate when people compare us to Chicago or Detroit from a few years ago. They were not soft. They just weren't a physical team. But when it came to it, they could play that game too. Habs will remain soft until they change their identity.

Completely false. The Habs are not soft at all. You're spreading pessimism based on nothing at all. Just like the Wings of recent past, if it comes down to it, the Habs ARE able to play against a physical team and beat them. Want proof? Check our record against Boston the past two seasons. We are certainly small, but whining about softness is off-base and outright wrong.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Completely false. The Habs are not soft at all. You're spreading pessimism based on nothing at all. Just like the Wings of recent past, if it comes down to it, the Habs ARE able to play against a physical team and beat them. Want proof? Check our record against Boston the past two seasons. We are certainly small, but whining about softness is off-base and outright wrong.

Who gives a **** about a regular season record against Boston? If you think this team stands up to physical play, you're either a homer or simply don't watch the games. Ottawa had no business dominating us last year, but they did. Why? Because of their size and physicality. But people here still think a few injuries is what did us in.

We got dismantled out west but people think it's because Price was injured.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

What? Dude come on, read what I write. I've been referring to the recent past, not just this year, and even then the Red Wings are a consistent threat to win a cup. If they were healthy they'd be much higher in the standings. With that quality roster and that coach I'm extremely surprised that you legitimately believe that when healthy the Red Wings aren't even a small threat to win the cup. Another "what have you done for me lately" case, I suppose...

Forget about the Red Wings...

Bottom line is this: Physicality and size matters and it is a weakness for us.

 

[JAVO16]

Who gives a **** about a regular season record against Boston? If you think this team stands up to physical play, you're either a homer or simply don't watch the games. Ottawa had no business dominating us last year, but they did. Why? Because of their size and physicality. But people here still think a few injuries is what did us in.

We got dismantled out west but people think it's because Price was injured.

You really need to add a couple more laughing smileys. You know, just for good measure and to bolster your great arguments.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

You really need to add a couple more laughing smileys. You know, just for good measure and to bolster your great arguments.

Tell me I'm not the only one seeing the irony here.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

You really need to add a couple more laughing smileys. You know, just for good measure and to bolster your great arguments.

 

[JAVO16]

Tell me I'm not the only one seeing the irony here.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

Well played.

 

[Agnostic]

I am on my phone so I don't trust myself to open a thread , someone needs to open the thread "Reasons we are going to kick ass in the playoffs " .

I don't know how it occurred but the Debbie Downers have set the tone on this board all year long.

 

[Corncob]

I am on my phone so I don't trust myself to open a thread , someone needs to open the thread "Reasons we are going to kick ass in the playoffs " .

I don't know how it occurred but the Debbie Downers have set the tone on this board all year long.

It's all right, history is on our side on this one.

Check out OP's 2010 thread Are We The Worst Team In The Playoffs which swept the Habs all the way to the Conference finals....

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=760742&highlight=

 

[JusticeBeaver]

To cherry pick some stats, let's take a look at the the last few games as a reflection of play leading into the playoffs.

6-1
GF: 28
GF/G: 4.67
GA: 18
GA/G: 3

Since that brutal trip out west, things have been getting better. Its nice to see them scoring but if you factor in the 4-1 loss to the Bruins, those margins get even closer. Nonetheless, my point is that while the goals seem to be pouring in as chemistry is developing in the top line(with contributors up and down the lineup), the habs should get back into the routine of shutting things down and not giving teams a chance to get back into the game. If there's an issue to point out that could hurt the habs its that.

With that said I'm not Debbie downering and think the habs have a legit chance to come out of the east.

 

[BLONG7]

1 yr later, did losing to the Sens last year, give these guys some experience they can learn from? This is essentially the same team, but all with 1yr of better developing...

 

[Prendan Brust]

What's funny is that these whiners can't lose unless we win the Stanley Cup. No matter when the habs get ousted from the playoffs (we it is way more likely than winning it all) they'll come back and say "I told you so" and push their size and toughness point.

Not that it has no merit, it's the constant repetition despite a pretty season and a nice little run that becomes so annoying. That and the refusal to admit anything positive regarding the Habs.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

What's funny is that these whiners can't lose unless we win the Stanley Cup. No matter when the habs get ousted from the playoffs (we it is way more likely than winning it all) they'll come back and say "I told you so" and push their size and toughness point.

Honestly, if we reach the 2nd round and do anything better than getting ousted at 4 games to 1, I personally would consider this thread to have been proven incorrect.

 

[bsl]

This is the end of the season and we are heading in the playoffs. Can't people actually support the team and have fun for once??


Boston is the only team in the East clearly better than us, we would need some luck to avoid them but anything is possible. All others team we have a serious shot against.

Because of the new in division PO format the first 2 rounds, we will almost certainly play Bruins in round 2 if we beat Tampa.

Before this year we might have avoided them until CF, thus increasing the chances of them having a season ending key injury, or being eliminated in an upset.

Then again, Habs won't see Philly until round 3. So that's good. Or maybe not so good...