Speculation: Re-Signing Sharp?
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Hockey Dad
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Mr Misty
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In the hopes he would play well and build up some trade value. It doesn't sound like he's "so injured" at all, just a little more banged up than normal.
A nagging injury, which means he's injured. Which, could, turn into a worse injury.
I guess we'll have to see but I think we're done making deals until the offseason now.
Mr Misty
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He's playing right now. He could get injured or be fine, same as any other player.
You're missing what has been reported but that's fine. Clearly you aren't getting that Nill is being honest with teams and telling them what is wrong with Sharp. I'm not going to get into with you about him but I hope we can deal him, either way.
Troy McClure
Suter will never be scratched
I'd think letting Sharp show he can play through it gives him more value than putting him on IR until the deadline.
Mr Misty
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I guess that's the wrongest opinion there ever was, not how it works at all, etc
Nowhere did I say you're opinion was wrong.
But, Nill telling teams the truth about Sharp potentially diminishes his value too, which will probably **** off some Stars fans.
Don't know how to embed tweets but it sounds like Sharp isn't going to be traded today. Renaud Lavoie has tweeted it out.
Mr Misty
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Click on the tweet, take the numbers after the last slash on the url and copy them, then paste between the tweet tags
Just for example 836958912670646276 corresponds to this tweet by LeBrun
Back on topic, bummer.
People are still saying he may still be traded but we shall see.
I don't think Hemsky or Korpikoski get moved either. One hasn't played all season and the other is a bit piece, at best.
I don't think Hemsky or Korpikoski get moved either. One hasn't played all season and the other is a bit piece, at best.
Some a guy on StarsOutsiders is saying that Nill isn't going to move Sharp because he doesn't want to break the family up...anyone else know where this is coming from?
Hockey Dad
Registered User
Saw this on Spectors trade rumors this morning, from the OTTAWA SUN:
Don Brennan reports the Senators attempted to acquire veteran winger Patrick Sharp from the Dallas Stars before the recent NHL trade deadline. However, Sharp wouldn’t waive his no-trade clause to come to Ottawa.*
If that was the only decent offer and Sharp rejected it seems like a plausible explanation for why Sharp looks good and fast, yet is still moments away from major surgery....NOT. Also, perhaps why he looked particularly fast last night, at least in spots. I had forgotten he had any sort of NTC, and if he did, it answers my question if waiving it once to go to Stars negates it, or not. Apparently, it doesn't.
Don Brennan reports the Senators attempted to acquire veteran winger Patrick Sharp from the Dallas Stars before the recent NHL trade deadline. However, Sharp wouldn’t waive his no-trade clause to come to Ottawa.*
If that was the only decent offer and Sharp rejected it seems like a plausible explanation for why Sharp looks good and fast, yet is still moments away from major surgery....NOT. Also, perhaps why he looked particularly fast last night, at least in spots. I had forgotten he had any sort of NTC, and if he did, it answers my question if waiving it once to go to Stars negates it, or not. Apparently, it doesn't.
Mr Misty
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If you aren't an athletic trainer or a doctor who has examined Sharp, I don't know why you think your opinion on that counts for anything.
As for your conspiracy, cui bono? Why would Nill, the only person to go on the record on this to this point, lie about it? He could have just said Sharp wouldn't waive. And if the NMC was what stopped a trade, saying he was injured and needed season ending surgery would be doing Sharp dirty. That's not what Nill does either, and he'd lose all his credibility if Sharp publicly said "I'm not injured actually."
And just to point out, a player who is skating around great but had a big drop off in scoring could have an upper body injury that needs surgery instead of a lower body injury. Makes you think.
Just throwing it out there as interesting to Stars fans. Assuming the Sun reporter has some inside info, like Heika here, it has some value. And you have to admit, it does seem odd, and not jiving with the supposedly known facts.
Sharp has a modified no-trade clause where he can submit a list of 10 teams that he can be traded to. That would seem to indicate Ottawa made an offer, Nill at least approached him, and he rejected.
Where the Injury/cover story comes into play, I don't know. As you say, he could have upper body issues, the injury could have come almost simultaneously (but they did say it was lingering) or he could be saving face for Sharp, the OTT GM, or himself. Like the Spezza deal, NSH wasn't happy when it became public that he didn't want to go there, but would come to DAL.
Sharp has a modified no-trade clause where he can submit a list of 10 teams that he can be traded to. That would seem to indicate Ottawa made an offer, Nill at least approached him, and he rejected.
Where the Injury/cover story comes into play, I don't know. As you say, he could have upper body issues, the injury could have come almost simultaneously (but they did say it was lingering) or he could be saving face for Sharp, the OTT GM, or himself. Like the Spezza deal, NSH wasn't happy when it became public that he didn't want to go there, but would come to DAL.
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Mr Misty
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Let me be the first to say I know nothing about Patrick Sharp's injury, I have never examined Patrick Sharp or met him, and I am not qualified to assess injuries of any kind. I also have great respect for people in these fields.
There is a clear difference between posting something that came out of Ottawa and was reported in the media and your own commentary about Sharp. Unless you know something about Sharp's injury, why would you use the phrasing you did? It is obviously possible to skate and still need surgery a whole bunch of places. And Sharp's earning power is going to be affected by surgery no matter when it happens. If he doesn't need it then Nill telling everyone is taking money out of Sharp's pocket. If Sharp wouldn't waive, Nill telling everyone would be the best outcome for everyone and Sharp could give a bunch of reasons why he didn't want to go that everyone would be fine with. Any kind of family anything is instant sympathy.
You seem pretty mad about this Sharp business, but why isn't clear to me and doesn't seem clear to you either. Share stuff, I love to have new stuff to talk about here, but there's no reason not to be upfront if you don't want to be misunderstood.
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Over in the trade rumors section, custom or rules have made it so the OP must label speculation, rumor, confirmed deal, etc., as such. We don't do that here,
We merely discuss whatever is on our mind with the Stars. Not know Sharp's condition didn't stop you from speculating that he is not "so injured" and others speculated that he may wish to re-sign here, etc. Of course, you crapped on some of those as the "wrongest opinion ever."
None of us know the real reason he wasn't traded, and it may not even be that black and white. I am guessing a nagging injury (your words) although they did specifically mention surgery post season, and maybe he plays until they are mathematically eliminated, which makes some sense and fits the current narrative)
Minor surgery and an NTC make an interesting combo.
I think Sharp's overall value is mostly related to age and production of the last few years, providing no medical report says he has concussion issues. He will be taking a pay cut of about 50%, IMHO, wherever he signs. If these things follow "form" the Stars may offer $2-2.5M and maybe some team takes a chance and offers over $3M, or something high enough to entice him away. I would have no problem bringing him back for an appropriate home town discount, but that is rare in UFA.
Ghost of Kyiv
Wanted Dead and Alive
Sharp to Ottawa is nothing new, Friedman reported that about a week ago, they tried to acquire him before looking at Burrows.
Previously, it was reported that Ottawa backed off due to the injury concern, and that makes a bit more sense to me. But I certainly don't know enough to comment on Don Brennan's accuracy.
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Anyways, Dahlen would have been an awesome return for Sharp. IMO, far better than the 2nd+ I was hoping for prior to the injury disclosure. I know Dahlen was picked with a 2nd round selection, but I really liked him leading up to the draft. I think I had him at 29 on my own personal best available list (which I realize has zero value outside of my own head). Oh well.
*Yes, I realize that just because they offered Dahlen for Burrows, doesn't mean that they'd have offered that for Sharp. Just like to think about what could have been in a far off fantasy land.
Previously, it was reported that Ottawa backed off due to the injury concern, and that makes a bit more sense to me. But I certainly don't know enough to comment on Don Brennan's accuracy.
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Anyways, Dahlen would have been an awesome return for Sharp. IMO, far better than the 2nd+ I was hoping for prior to the injury disclosure. I know Dahlen was picked with a 2nd round selection, but I really liked him leading up to the draft. I think I had him at 29 on my own personal best available list (which I realize has zero value outside of my own head). Oh well.
*Yes, I realize that just because they offered Dahlen for Burrows, doesn't mean that they'd have offered that for Sharp. Just like to think about what could have been in a far off fantasy land.
Mr Misty
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I said that in response to him playing in games. Those early reports were not "Sharp is too injured to play" they were "Sharp is injured." Nill spoke about this later and said Sharp will need surgery at some point that will end his season, but we don't know when that will be. And I made that comment in response to a question based on a tweet, there's a difference in credibility between Nill saying something in public and some media people tweeting that their source said Nill told a team Sharp is injured. If you heard Nill's comments on this subject, he answers that original question: Sharp is playing because he is a hockey player who wants to help his team win.
And that second post you mentioned is obviously a joke. If you missed that I did a 180 from the first post to the response to Troy, I'm not sure what to say. Also Troy's post was not about him wanting to sign here at all. I don't think he will because the Stars can't pay him what some others can nor can they offer him the chance to contend for another cup as others can. If he chooses Dallas because of some other criteria, maybe his family likes Texas, then that is something nobody outside his family can confirm or deny. Different folks like different places, but that's not a way to build a hockey team.
You missed the point about being clear also. If you are sad that we didn't get anything for Sharp, just say that. I certainly am, this was a bad break for the Stars IMO. If you are mad that Nill botched this, say that. If you are mad Sharp stopped a trade, say that. Or ask a question "Do you think we could've gotten something but Sharp vetoed Ottawa?" "Do you think Sharp is really injured?" etc. Just be upfront, don't make people guess what you mean.
Finally, I do know the real reason and I can prove it to you. Either Nill lied, or he didn't. And he couldn't lie without Sharp also lying because Sharp could easily deny the lie. We know what Nill said doesn't benefit the Stars because they get nothing for Sharp, and we can round up an assumption that surgery=less money for a 35+ player into something we know doesn't benefit Sharp either. So unless we can come up with a reason that a lie would benefit both parties more than they are harmed, the only possible explanation is that Nill was telling the truth. In the absence of an alternative explanation, that must be what happened.
Whatever.
If you can't explain your basic premise in a few sentences, adding more words doesn't make your idea any better, reasonable or right, as the case may be.
Along with the idea of labeling everything as speculation (which would be 90% of all posts here) maybe we should require smiley faces when we joke about something.
Fans turn 180 all the time around here.
As to Nill lied or he didn't, you apparently missed my point that the truth is often not that black and white. There is a back story there somewhere beyond the headlines, at least IMHO.
If you can't explain your basic premise in a few sentences, adding more words doesn't make your idea any better, reasonable or right, as the case may be.
Along with the idea of labeling everything as speculation (which would be 90% of all posts here) maybe we should require smiley faces when we joke about something.
Fans turn 180 all the time around here.
As to Nill lied or he didn't, you apparently missed my point that the truth is often not that black and white. There is a back story there somewhere beyond the headlines, at least IMHO.
