Megaterio Llamas
el rey del mambo
It's an unintentional full rebuild under the guise of a 'retool on the fly'.
A bit chaotic but it should eventually yield positive results.
A bit chaotic but it should eventually yield positive results.
Re-Build or Re-Tool?
- Thread starter Stonz
- Start date
Grazzy
Registered User
- Sep 29, 2012
- 730
- 1
Initially liked a lot of what Benning did, but the Sbisa deal along with the trades in the past week have turned me into a hater. At this point, I'd prefer to see a rebuild with guys like Burrows, Higgins, Hansen, Edler, Vrbata moving on. I don't see the Sedins going anywhere or Hamuis. I think they'll likely retire here, but get what you can for the rest
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
Once the Calgary Flames gave up their stupid charade of trying to make the playoffs every year, and finally gave in to needing a rebuild, they have done quite well. They're still building to their team and adding great young core pieces and they will definitely be a team to watch.
KeninsFan
Fire Benning already
- Feb 6, 2012
- 5,489
- 0
Unfortunately that mean's we're gonna be one step behind the teams that commit to a full rebuild. Teams like Arizona and Toronto will get the franchise players in the top 3 of the draft while we'll be relegated to picking from the 5-10 spot.
At this point the only choice is to blow it up and rebuild. This roster has been destroyed to the point where it no longer has any chance of being competitive.
ginner classic
Dammit Jim!
Prior to the Lack and Kassian trade, we were in a very nice position to rebuild. Now we are down to three trade-able assets that we could get good value for:
Bonino (cap hit is exceptional), Vrbata and Hamhuis. You could throw Higgins and Hansen on that list, but they are not going to return much with this GM.
Not sure what our three new additions could return at the deadline besides late picks.
A rebuild is going to be longer and more painful than anything since the 80's.
Horse McHindu
They call me Horse.....
Has it really?
In comparison to last season - I don't think we're really worse. Horvat will likely be an impact player, while Prust will probably have similar impact to Kassian. Guys like Virtanen, Shinkaruk Gaunce, Grenier, Cassels, etc. will have one more year or experience and will either be at the NHL level, or will be closer to it.
On defense - most would agree that Bieksa was a shell anyways, and was more of a liability. Will the loss of Bieksa really hurt us that much?
In net - Miller and Lack are/were comparable, while Markstrom will now have a chance to prove himself as a back-up........and Markstrom had a terrific year in Utica.
If the Canucks **** the bed next season, you have guys like Vrbata, Hamhuis, and Burrows that should fetch us a very good return. Not to mention, Higgins and Hansen.
I don't think things are as gloomy as you are painting it out to be.
Bobby Digital
Registered User
- Jun 15, 2006
- 1,435
- 794
You really think Benning will get full value for those guys? Also I doubt Hamhius agrees to waive his NTC mid season. This team is royally ****** as long as Benning is GM. He can't manage assets or cap. He's a solid drafter but isnt amazing or anything like that. His highest pick so far is looking dissapointing. As far as how we look next year I don't think anyone is to mad because we're taking a step back I believe most are quite aware of that it's just instead of rebuilding like we should were still trying to compete for the playoffs with a old washed up roster while not getting a return for our expiring contracts and trading picks and young players for Brandon ****in Prust. This team is direction less right now. The worst thing you can be in sports is in the NHL is in the middle and it's exactly were Benning is directing this team.
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LickTheEnvelope
Time to Retool... again...
kanucks25
Chris Tanev #1 Fan
It's not gloomy at all if they decide to go for it now but start the rebuild if we're not looking great at the deadline.
Unfortunately, that's not happening. We'll likely keep "trying" and failing and all our assets that we should be trading for picks and prospects (like Hamhuis, Vrbata, Burrows, Higgins, etc.) will either leave via free agency or lose all their value because of age.
WTG
December 5th
Blow it up.
Hard to get excited watching old men try to make the playoffs only to lose to the ****tiest team in the playoffs.
At least if we suck next year I'll get to watch a real good player like Matthews or Chyrun or Pujusjfsdfaasdgbsdh (what ever his name is) for the next 10+ years
Hard to get excited watching old men try to make the playoffs only to lose to the ****tiest team in the playoffs.
At least if we suck next year I'll get to watch a real good player like Matthews or Chyrun or Pujusjfsdfaasdgbsdh (what ever his name is) for the next 10+ years
This. 100% this. Thanks for being one of the few people around here to talk a little sense amongst a room full of 'chicken-littles'.
Dissonance
Registered User
On paper we are significantly worse team than last year. I'm not sure how anyone can argue otherwise.
We've lost our best goalie, we've downgraded on defense from Bieksa to Bartkowski, and we've let go two useful veterans in Richardson and Matthias who combined for 26 goals last year and played very reliable defensive games. Most of the young guys you list (Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Grenier, Cassels) are unlikely to see much NHL time next year. If Virtanen makes the squad he'll be one of the worst defensive forwards in the league. The young guys we're really counting on are Baertschi, Corrado or Clendening, and Markstrom.
To be competitive next year we need to hope that:
-- Ryan Miller doesn't continue declining sharply
-- Markstrom can actually hack it in the NHL
-- Corrado or Clendening can play in the top 6
-- Horvat takes a huge step forward
-- Baertschi can stick on an NHL roster and provide 30-40 points
-- The Sedins and Vrbata maintain their level of play
-- Sbisa suffers a season-ending injury in preseason
-- Everyone else stays healthy
If all those things happen and everything goes right, sure, we might have a chance at a playoff spot. But the odds of that are pretty long, and we could easily be in for a long, dismal season.
-------
Do agree that our best bet might be to sell off our veterans at next year's trade deadline, though given Benning's track record, that's likely to be a red-hot tire fire.
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Bourne Endeavor
Registered User
You also have to account for the teams around us. Even if we perform to the exact same level, almost all of our closest competition has improved. Last season we beat Edmonton six times. Chances are we're not going for an encore. We've struggled with California for years and all three got a little better. Basically, we're going to lose a lot more games by virtue of having done nothing to improve.
Well, if you look at the glass half full. We're going to be a bad team for a while thanks to his incompetence, meaning he will be in a position to draft good players. Those low place finishes will then get him fired long before he has much of a chance to do anything. So as long as Benning can actually draft. Alas, I don't trust him to get even that right.
Well, if you look at the glass half full. We're going to be a bad team for a while thanks to his incompetence, meaning he will be in a position to draft good players. Those low place finishes will then get him fired long before he has much of a chance to do anything. So as long as Benning can actually draft. Alas, I don't trust him to get even that right.
Horse McHindu
They call me Horse.....
Lack had a better season than Miller last season, but I hardly think that Miller is an inferior goalie to Lack. As far as mentoring Markstrom goes, I think Miller is far better suited to helping mold Markstrom since Miller was an elite goalie for a few years there. M
Given how Bieksa played last year (and most noticeably, in the playoffs), is Bartkowski really that much of a downgrade from Bieksa? I'm not so sure.
Also - Richardson and Matthias composed of our 3rd line last season, but I think Higgins and Bonino will replace them there instead (i.e. Higgins-Bonino-Hansen). So with that being said, I don't think our 3rd line will take a hit offensively nor defensively.
Given the emergence of Bo Horvat, I expect him and Vrbata to form a decent 2nd line, with Baertschi riding shotgun (or if Bones is slated to play there, Horvat and Higgins replace Richardson and Matthias).
True, but on the flip side of that, I think Brandon Prust is an upgrade over Zack Kassian and Ronald Kenins in terms of playing the role of a 4th liner.
I don't think it's farfetched to assume that Miller, the twins, and Vrbata will be close to what they were this season. I also don't think Horvat needs to take a "huge step." If he can play like he did towards the end of the season, and like he did in the playoffs, I think we'll be ok. I think Corrado and Clendening will be worthy 5th/6th defensemen.
Baertschi will be a bit of a wildcard, but he looked solid for Utica this year. I don't think it's a stretch to say that he will be as good as Higgins.
What has miller ever done to make you think he is a good mentor? What goalies has he taught?
Lack has never had the chance, but has already started to put up better numbers, and just progress.
Aside from Daniel and Henrik, Bo was the team's most impactful forward in the series versus Calgary. Considering how impactful of a player he'd become late in the season and into the playoffs, I can only imagine what would happen if he were to take a "huge step."
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
Aside from Daniel and Henrik, Bo was the team's most impactful forward in the series versus Calgary. Considering how impactful of a player he'd become late in the season and into the playoffs, I can only imagine what would happen if he were to take a "huge step."
What do you mean by "aside from?" I would say straight up Bo Horvat was our most impactful forward in the series. Especially at even strength (because he didn't receive any PP time).
Nick Lang
Registered User
- May 14, 2015
- 2,040
- 530
I think we're already in a rebuild. We're just waiting for all of Gillis' contracts to expire. It's kind of hard to rebuild when most players have NTC's.
Once Kesler, Luongo, Schnieder, Bieksa, Garrison, Burrows, Higgins, Hansen, and Hamhuis are all off the books, that leaves the Sedins (not leaving), and Edler.
That's a rebuild.
Once Kesler, Luongo, Schnieder, Bieksa, Garrison, Burrows, Higgins, Hansen, and Hamhuis are all off the books, that leaves the Sedins (not leaving), and Edler.
That's a rebuild.
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Horse McHindu
They call me Horse.....
Maybe not a good mentor in the "I'm going to hold your hand" sense. A good mentor, in the sense, that Markstrom is a very talented kid, and has a chance to pick the brain of a guy that was an elite goalie at one stage in his career.
What do you mean, "Lack has never had the chance?" He's had a good sample size to form an opinion. Lack is a great guy and a good kid. However, I just don't see 'star' potential in him and if a team ever wants to be a cup contender, you need to have an elite goalie.
To me, Eddie Lack read more like a Dan Cloutier, and before anyone gives me $hit for making that comment, keep in mind that Cloutier also had very solid regular seasons.
There are two things that soured me on Eddie Lack:
1) His 'deer-in-the-headlights' look (and subsequent performances) once Luongo got dealt during the 2014 season. Benning was absolutely in-the-right to go after a guy like Ryan Miller in that off-season (although to Lack's credit, he did look better this season than he did in late 2014 when Luongo got traded).
2) Lack's disturbingly lackluster play in this year's playoffs. Lack was absolutely terrible in Games 3 and 4, which prompted Desjardins to put in Ryan Miller (who still wasn't 100%).
I think this team's biggest priority from a goaltending standpoint, is to ensure that Markstrom and Demko are developing nicely, and are ready to take on progressively larger roles when the time is right. Signing Eddie Lack at $4 million per and at length, would have been a long term detriment to that in my opinion.
Horse McHindu
They call me Horse.....
To a large extent, I agree with this. One thing that impressed me about Horvat, was his speed and size. Horvat was our only forward that was able to consistently penetrate Calgary defense/collapse with ease and generate some pretty good scoring opportunities.
The Canucks also noticeably carried the play much of the time when the twins were on the ice (I think that's something that you and I will disagree on)
Demo is like 7 years away, there is no point to mention him... At all.
Lack had 8 games with a sv% below 880, miller had 16, so who was more of a dear in headlights? Lack had a tougher schedule, and a tougher road. 5 of millers wins were against edm. Lack posted a 929 once miller went down.
Sure pick random games here and there, don't look at the body of work.
I meant Lack has never been given the chance to mentor.
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