RD Timothy Liljegren - Rogle BK, SHL (2017, 17th, TOR) II

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

One thing about Liljegren, whom I really like: Rogle are a mess, which is why I was hoping he'd go to the Marlins this year. If he stays in Sweden I hope he gets traded or loaned to a better team.

Hunter emphasized he needs playing time next season, hopefully Rogle gives him just that at the SHL level. Otherwise he'll probably be a Marlie sooner than expected

 

[WpgBuffan]

He fell partly due to mono and party due to his poor Hockey IQ.

 

[oooooooooohCanada]

How come nobody is talking about him being overscouted / having really high expectations by scouts? That is a real thing. When a guy is hyped up to no end before his draft year even starts, when scouts go out they have a bias in their mind (at least some do) that he should be absolutely amazing. So when he ends up not being as amazing as they thought he gets ranked worse and worse. Add in mono and moving around teams a ton, that can combine to a slip.

I doubt Liljegren was seen as some defensive stalwart last year, its just that he was so young and his offensive game / overall package was elite that he got ranked so highly.

This is a classic boom/bust pick that absolutely has steal potential. Needs a season playing on one team and learning a system instead of flying around to every team in Sweden.

 

[Oilyveins97*]

grigs droppee because he can't skate.

Liljegren dropped because of his hockey IQ, and his defensive game

 

[McMatthews]

grigs droppee because he can't skate.

Grigorenko dropped because he couldn't skate, people questioned his heart and scouts weren't sure whether he was 18 or 20 years old.

 

[The Assclown]

Liljegren dropped because of his hockey IQ, and his defensive game

I would love to know how many games you watched him play in. Because by all accounts, his hockey iq is a strength not a weakness.

I wonder if your opinion has more to do with jealousy over a perceived rivalry here.

 

[nbwingsfan]

grigs droppee because he can't skate.

And Liljegren dropped due to questions about his IQ

Ok, why did Nick Lidstrom, PK Subban and Duncan Keith all fall to the second round?

That has to do with what? I don't remember anyone claiming they had the "steal of the draft " when any of them were picked.

I was just addressing the Toronto posters who seem to think the only reason he dropped was due to Mono.

 

[LeafChief]

Liljegren dropped because of his hockey IQ, and his defensive game

You have a TON of opinion on this player. Very interesting. You must have watched him a whole bunch this season.

Also interesting to see that you created your account in June 2017. Interesting.

 

[RonEllisFan]

Was a set up, Thommie Bergman told Tim that leafs wanted him, since all the recent Swedish signing, Tim, tough to get to leafs with 17th pick, Thommie Bergman, ok this is how we do it, play the mono card and blow all the interviews during draft week.

 

[Walshy7]

Grigorenko dropped because he couldn't skate, people questioned his heart and scouts weren't sure whether he was 18 or 20 years old.

pfft liljegren dropped because one souting service (thats all ive seen so far) questioned his hockey IQ despite direct video evidence to the contrary, mono drains so much energy maybe he was slower in terms of reactions etc.

 

[Oilyveins97*]

You have a TON of opinion on this player. Very interesting. You must have watched him a whole bunch this season.

Also interesting to see that you created your account in June 2017. Interesting.

I've watched him quite a bit, yes. I tend to keep close tabs on top rated prospects due to the fact the Oilers have been a bottom of the barrel team for years.

I'm unsure what creating an account this month has to do with anything?

Believe it or not, their are knowledge people/sites I get information from that have absolutely nothing to do with HF.

 

[weems]

Now the question becomes is his poor decision making/hockeysense due to him trying to do too much because he feels hes more talented than his competition or does he really just lack the consistent ability to make good split second decisions. If it is the first (and that can be very common with young talented prospects) its a fairly easy thing to iron out in the AHL and first few seasons in the league. If he really does have terrible hockeysense and its moreso due to how his brain works that can be a problem.

These types of players are really polarizing. Take Jake Gardiner for example. If you put up a poll on this board and asked which teams think hes a good player and wanted him youd prolly have 50% saying yes please and 50% saying god no keep him away from my team (when in actuality Gardiner is a really good D man and every team should want him). His falling prolly had a combination of perceived lack of hockeysense, illness that led to bad play, some teams taking players from a needed position and some teams just not having a super strong scouting base in europe.

The things he does well tho cant be teached. He's an elite skater, with good hands and has a bomb of a shot. The fact that he shoots right only adds into it seeing RHD are such a valued commodity in the league. I would say hes been drafted by a good management team if simplifying his game is whats needed.

At #17 in a weak draft its amazing value whether he hits or not and he might have addressed the Leafs biggest potential need going forward. He hits and the Leafs prolly turn into a juggernaut. He miss's it was only a mid first rounder in a weak draft and you still have an amazing core to build around.

 

[The Assclown]

At #17 in a weak draft its amazing value whether he hits or not and he might have addressed the Leafs biggest potential need going forward. He hits and the Leafs prolly turn into a juggernaut. He miss's it was only a mid first rounder in a weak draft and you still have an amazing core to build around.

Fantastic summary. Either way the Leafs made the best possible pick at their position.

 

[Zaddy]

How come nobody is talking about him being overscouted / having really high expectations by scouts? That is a real thing. When a guy is hyped up to no end before his draft year even starts, when scouts go out they have a bias in their mind (at least some do) that he should be absolutely amazing. So when he ends up not being as amazing as they thought he gets ranked worse and worse. Add in mono and moving around teams a ton, that can combine to a slip.

I doubt Liljegren was seen as some defensive stalwart last year, its just that he was so young and his offensive game / overall package was elite that he got ranked so highly.

This is a classic boom/bust pick that absolutely has steal potential. Needs a season playing on one team and learning a system instead of flying around to every team in Sweden.

As I've said before, if you'd only look at how he played this year, he would likely not even have been a 1st rounder. I don't think it has anything to do with him being overscouted at all. He was outplayed by Brännström all year long at every level. I watched him in SuperElit a number of times and he was struggling even there, fumbling pucks, making boneheaded decisions, trying to stickhandle through multiple guys in the neutral zone and losing the puck. So really what it comes down to is how much you believe his mono affected him/his performance this year.

 

[FireBurningBin]

pfft liljegren dropped because one souting service (thats all ive seen so far) questioned his hockey IQ despite direct video evidence to the contrary

So the scouts of 16 different teams passed over him because one scouting service criticized him?

 

[David Castillo]

I've been paying modest attention to several defensemen since knowing Dallas was gonna pick high. When Dallas was picking 7-9 I watched Liljegren. I love the Heiskanen pick, but it's gonna be tough to swallow if Liljegren reaches the potential he has; as the best defenseman of the draft in five years. You want defensemen nowadays to have the puck more than they don't, and Leafs have been drafting smarter than most teams since Nonis and his band of village idiots left. Great pick by the Leafs. Although I do wonder if they would have taken him over Valimaki if Valimaki were still there (?). Lou's half gangster/half scoliosis walk was great.

 

[Diamonddog01]

I would love to know how many games you watched him play in. Because by all accounts, his hockey iq is a strength not a weakness.

I wonder if your opinion has more to do with jealousy over a perceived rivalry here.

His on-ice decision making has come up repeatedly. It is certainly one of the reasons he dropped. Unless you think that 15 teams just forgot that he wasn't picked yet and then were like 'oh **** we forgot about him, damn we screwed up'. He fell for legitimate reasons. I wish him the best but he was picked right around where he should've been.

 

[Willy Styles]

So in the previous thread I hoped that Timothy would drop so hard that the Leafs could get him, early into the season last year. My wish came true.

I dont care that other fanbases have a negative opinion of him, he's a boom or bust prospect, who's floor is likely an NHL defesnemen (based on his skill, skating and shot), and ceiling is Erik Karrlsson.

Ill take that player 10/10 at #17.

 

[Willy Styles]

The funny thing is we always hear "development isn't linear".


Apparently it is for a Leafs draft pick who had an injury riddled season, and was considered to be on of the best defensive prospects in a while. Don't forget many scouts had said that he was miles ahead of OEL, Hedman, Karrlson at 16 years of age. They hadn't seen anyone who had tools like he did at 16.

Development is never linear, him having a bad season (in which he was bounced around and injured), does not mean he's suddenly terrible at hockey. If he continues to regress next season that will be true, but i doubt that happens.

 

[King In The North]

Liljegren dropped because of his hockey IQ, and his defensive game

I wonder how much his illness/injury played a part. Mono is no joke.

 

[King In The North]

The funny thing is we always hear "development isn't linear".


Apparently it is for a Leafs draft pick who had an injury riddled season, and was considered to be on of the best defensive prospects in a while. Don't forget many scouts had said that he was miles ahead of OEL, Hedman, Karrlson at 16 years of age. They hadn't seen anyone who had tools like he did at 16.

Development is never linear, him having a bad season (in which he was bounced around and injured), does not mean he's suddenly terrible at hockey. If he continues to regress next season that will be true, but i doubt that happens.

If I was a betting man I'd say Liljegren while healthy will return to form.

 

[blueberrie]

If it makes it as an offensive minded 2nd pair D, the Leafs speed + transition game just got that much more ridiculous.

 

[AppsSyl]

The fact that some people from other fanbases are going out of their way to try and take the wind out of the sails of this pick speaks volumes as to how good of a pick it actually was. There are a number of factors (mono, injury, coming back to soon from mono, not playing WJC, getting bounced around) that contributed to his season, but you don't just lose god given ability. He is arguably the best skater in the draft, good shot, and offensive decision making.

This whole nonsense about low hockey IQ is garbage. If anything he was forcing plays because he was trying to do too much, which is evident based on the fact that his hockey sense was not perceived as an issue prior to the mono. The same stat watching scouts on the site tore down Chychrun last year saying he had a low hockey IQ, which was garbage as well, and low and behold he made the NHL this past season and is most likely going to be the top D from that draft.

The other factor I believe that cooled some of the hype surrounding Liljegren was the emergence of Dahlin. Suddenly another sublime Swedish D emerges just as Liljegren gets mono, and scouts start drooling over the shiny new toy. I am glad the Leafs management sees beyond Liljegren's misfortune this year, looked at "his full body of work," as Mark Hunter put it, and drafted arguably a top 3 talent at #17.

To me the Leafs just drafted the missing cornerstone in the rebuild, the one I didn't think they would get, because of how fast the have risen up the standings. Liljegren under Babcock (and in his system), and pushing the puck up the ice to Matthews, Marner and Nylander is going to be scary.

Similar to Chychrun last year there is going to be a lot of crow to go around for those trying to tear down this kid, and a lot of teams and fanbases that are going to wish they didn't pass on him.

 

[Center Ice Scrum*]

How lucky are we? I've been itching to draft this kid since 2015 and by some miracle it happened! Thank god for Mono!

I'm not going to bother justifying the people who are trying to marginalise him and stuck on words. No people he's not a steal what so ever at #17. But if he stays healthy and gets a ton of playing time, the Toronto Maple Leafs are proud to introduce to their lineup, the next Drew Doughty.

 

[Center Ice Scrum*]

The fact that some people from other fanbases are going out of their way to try and take the wind out of the sails of this pick speaks volumes as to how good of a pick it actually was. There are a number of factors (mono, injury, coming back to soon from mono, not playing WJC, getting bounced around) that contributed to his season, but you don't just lose god given ability. He is arguably the best skater in the draft, good shot, and offensive decision making.

This whole nonsense about low hockey IQ is garbage. If anything he was forcing plays because he was trying to do too much, which is evident based on the fact that his hockey sense was not perceived as an issue prior to the mono. The same stat watching scouts on the site tore down Chychrun last year saying he had a low hockey IQ, which was garbage as well, and low and behold he made the NHL this past season and is most likely going to be the top D from that draft.

The other factor I believe that cooled some of the hype surrounding Liljegren was the emergence of Dahlin. Suddenly another sublime Swedish D emerges just as Liljegren gets mono, and scouts start drooling over the shiny new toy. I am glad the Leafs management sees beyond Liljegren's misfortune this year, looked at "his full body of work," as Mark Hunter put it, and drafted arguably a top 3 talent at #17.

To me the Leafs just drafted the missing cornerstone in the rebuild, the one I didn't think they would get, because of how fast the have risen up the standings. Liljegren under Babcock (and in his system), and pushing the puck up the ice to Matthews, Marner and Nylander is going to be scary.

Similar to Chychrun last year there is going to be a lot of crow to go around for those trying to tear down this kid, and a lot of teams and fanbases that are going to wish they didn't pass on him.

#truth Let the people drool my friend. Envy is not a bad thing, as long as you're not the envious one. No one would bat an eye if Timothy was drafted at #3-8. People might question the pick, but the "upside argument" would overwhelmingly justify everything.