Player Discussion RD Nikita Zaitsev

[Sensinitis]

In no world would Zaitsev be a 50 point guy in the NHL. I don't know where you get this idea that his shot is so great. It's fine, but nothing special in the slightest. The guy struggles to get a shot through on a good day.

I really hope people here aren't buying into your scouting report on Zaits. If you go into the season expecting anything remotely close to 50 points you're bound to be disappointed. He is a good defensive player and struggles with the puck in pressure situations. He's a guy who can play on your second or third pairing. Don't make him the guy that everyone hates because he isn't what they think he'll be.

50 pts is a stretch but he hit 36 pts in his rookie year... So 40 pts is definitely doable with the correct usage, imo.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

50 pts is a stretch but he hit 36 pts in his rookie year... So 40 pts is definitely doable with the correct usage, imo.

It's doable if he plays with Chabot but I highly doubt it. Zaitev's rookie year was when he was 25 years old so it wasn't a typical rookie year.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

He's not going to come close to 40 points. That's bonkers. He has no offensive skill. Please don't saddle poor Chabot with him.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

He's not going to come close to 40 points. That's bonkers. He has no offensive skill. Please don't saddle poor Chabot with him.

I just watched DJ Smith call him an elite defender... Sounds like he's going to get an opportunity here and we should be cheering for him.

 

[stempniaksen]

He's not going to come close to 40 points. That's bonkers. He has no offensive skill. Please don't saddle poor Chabot with him.

Guys with "no offensive skill" don't put up 36 points in the NHL.

Should he be put in a position to get 36 points given the other young (offensive minded) defenders we have? No.

Could he come close playing for a coach that clearly values him higher than most? Sure he could.

 

[Micklebot]

Guys with "no offensive skill" don't put up 36 points in the NHL.

Should he be put in a position to get 36 points given the other young (offensive minded) defenders we have? No.

Could he come close playing for a coach that clearly values him higher than most? Sure he could.

Is he going to get 2 mins on the PP every night with Marner? Because thats what it took to get him 36 points.

I mean, there is a good chance he isn't on either PP unit with Chabot Brannstrom and Wolainin all fighting for that role.

 

[SENATOR]

DJ talks about Zaitsev and signing praises more then me, but what do I know.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Guys with "no offensive skill" don't put up 36 points in the NHL.

Should he be put in a position to get 36 points given the other young (offensive minded) defenders we have? No.

Could he come close playing for a coach that clearly values him higher than most? Sure he could.

36 points from a defender isn't a huge number anymore. Since that season Zaitsev put up 36 points, that feat has been achieved 116 times by defenders. It was 9th on his team. 9th in scoring on the Sens this year was 35 points from Boedker. Would you like to tell me Boedker is a skilled player?

 

[stempniaksen]

36 points from a defender isn't a huge number anymore. Since that season Zaitsev put up 36 points, that feat has been achieved 116 times by defenders. It was 9th on his team. 9th in scoring on the Sens this year was 35 points from Boedker. Would you like to tell me Boedker is a skilled player?

Kind of tough to equate a forward scoring 35+ points with a defender doing it, imo.

All I'm saying is that 2 seasons ago he had enough skill to come close (in a role he'll, admittedly, likely never replicate) so I wouldn't speak in such absolutes about him never being able to do it again. He's coming into a fresh situation with a coach who (seems to) like him more than anyone else and also has more familiarity with him than any other player on the roster. DJS could easily choose to use Zaitsev as an all situations defender with (some) PP time and that would get him up into the 30 point range (similar to what Ceci paced at last year).

 

[SENATOR]

I think if Sens would get land somehow Gusev and with Zaitsev already here, it would be so much easier to convince him to play in our town. We would make playoffs, not even trying))))
Getting the bona fide KHL star and an instant star in NHL and an elite first line winger with a very solid Zaitsev, will be a game changer for this team.

 

[stempniaksen]

Is he going to get 2 mins on the PP every night with Marner? Because thats what it took to get him 36 points.

I mean, there is a good chance he isn't on either PP unit with Chabot Brannstrom and Wolainin all fighting for that role.

He could easily start the season on the top pair with Chabot while getting some PP time (I don't think Wolanin and Brannstrom both start the year here, obviously that would hurt his case).

I'm not saying it's likely, I feel like I should clarify that, just that there's a world where DJ leans on Zaitsev because he knows/trusts him and he gets tossed into a role where he could benefit from playing with skill guys.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Kind of tough to equate a forward scoring 35+ points with a defender doing it, imo.

All I'm saying is that 2 seasons ago he had enough skill to come close (in a role he'll, admittedly, likely never replicate) so I wouldn't speak in such absolutes about him never being able to do it again. He's coming into a fresh situation with a coach who (seems to) like him more than anyone else and also has more familiarity with him than any other player on the roster. DJS could easily choose to use Zaitsev as an all situations defender with (some) PP time and that would get him up into the 30 point range (similar to what Ceci paced at last year).

I think if you wanna give him Ceci's role, you can't expect him to hit 30. He has less offensive ability than Ceci in the shooting and passing department. There aren't any Stones, Duchenes, Marners or Tavareses around for him to pile up a few easy 2nd assists.

As far as comparing a top 4 guy to a 4th liner like Boedker averaging 14 minutes a night, it is a weird comparison, but like I said some as talentless as Boedker is putting up those numbers with so little ice time. Gives us some perspective. Those aren't numbers to gloat about or even really frame in a positive way.

 

[Micklebot]

He could easily start the season on the top pair with Chabot while getting some PP time (I don't think Wolanin and Brannstrom both start the year here, obviously that would hurt his case).

I'm not saying it's likely, I feel like I should clarify that, just that there's a world where DJ leans on Zaitsev because he knows/trusts him and he gets tossed into a role where he could benefit from playing with skill guys.

Teams run 4 forwards on the pp these days. I don't see Zaitsev on the top unit and we don't have the depth to have him play with a Marner level player on the 2nd unit.

He might get paired with Chabot at ES but he won't be the guy driving the play. He will be the Demelo to Chabot. It isn't like he bad an inept parter in Gardiner. He won't have the support offensively he had in TO. I am guessing he will get more support in his own end though.

 

[stempniaksen]

I think if you wanna give him Ceci's role, you can't expect him to hit 30. He has less offensive ability than Ceci in the shooting and passing department. There aren't any Stones, Duchenes, Marners or Tavareses around for him to pile up a few easy 2nd assists.

As far as comparing a top 4 guy to a 4th liner like Boedker averaging 14 minutes a night, it is a weird comparison, but like I said some as talentless as Boedker is putting up those numbers with so little ice time. Gives us some perspective. Those aren't numbers to gloat about or even really frame in a positive way.

I mean, Ceci paced at ~34 points last season while being awful in almost every aspect and not getting the benefit of playing with Chabot for any extended period of time. I think Zaitsev could put up similar numbers to that given my expectation that DJ will overplay him and use him as a crutch in many situations. Throw Zaitsev next to Chabot and I honestly don't think 40 is out of the question. Won't necessarily be because NZ is any good per say, simply because he'll be put in a position to succeed.

 

[Micklebot]

I mean, Ceci paced at ~34 points last season while being awful in almost every aspect and not getting the benefit of playing with Chabot for any extended period of time. I think Zaitsev could put up similar numbers to that given my expectation that DJ will overplay him and use him as a crutch in many situations. Throw Zaitsev next to Chabot and I honestly don't think 40 is out of the question. Won't necessarily be because NZ is any good per say, simply because he'll be put in a position to succeed.

Ceci paced at 29 pts not 34.

 

[stempniaksen]

Teams run 4 forwards on the pp these days. I don't see Zaitsev on the top unit and we don't have the depth to have him play with a Marner level player on the 2nd unit.

As of now I have a hard time coming up with 8 forwards that deserve PP time that will be on the team next season. The roster can still change, but I think next years Sens could be the exception when it comes to running a unit with 4F's. That being said, even the most optimistic Zaitsev fan wouldn't stick him on that top unit.

I just think top pairing minutes with Chabot (5 on 5) and some level of PP time (2nd unit with White/Wolanin/ect) could get him into that 35/40 point range. Wouldn't be to the benefit of the team (or the rest of the young D's) long-term to have him eating up those prime minutes, but given how highly DJS has spoken about him, I'm anticipating seeing more of him than any of us will feel comfortable with.

Even in EK's peak the team has always had a 2nd defenceman pace around 30-35 points. I know we'd all like that 2nd guy to be Wolanin/Brannstrom this season, but I think it could be Zaitsev given his presumed role, how much DJS likes/trusts him, ect.

 

[stempniaksen]

Ceci paced at 29 pts not 34.

You're absolutely correct, my mistake. Had him at 29 points instead of 26 for some reason (and I still mathed wrong, but I guess it didn't matter).

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I mean, Ceci paced at ~34 points last season while being awful in almost every aspect and not getting the benefit of playing with Chabot for any extended period of time. I think Zaitsev could put up similar numbers to that given my expectation that DJ will overplay him and use him as a crutch in many situations. Throw Zaitsev next to Chabot and I honestly don't think 40 is out of the question. Won't necessarily be because NZ is any good per say, simply because he'll be put in a position to succeed.

Like I said, Zaitsev has less offensive ability than Ceci and he put up that pace when Duchene, Dzingel and Stone were here for the majority of the season. I don't think we should expect Zaitsev to be able to replicate that in this current situation.

I guess if he is getting 1st PP time and the bulk of his minutes with Chabot, he could but that would really be a bummer to have him there.

 

[stempniaksen]

Like I said, Zaitsev has less offensive ability than Ceci and he put up that pace when Duchene, Dzingel and Stone were here for the majority of the season. I don't think we should expect Zaitsev to be able to replicate that in this current situation.

I guess if he is getting 1st PP time and the bulk of his minutes with Chabot, he could but that would really be a bummer to have him there.

I'm of the mind Zaitsev is better offensively than Ceci (better passer anyways) so that may be the disconnect. The way I'm looking at it is, if Ceci can do X Zaitsev can do X + a bit.

Don't disagree with you at all that it would be a bummer to see Zaitsev eating prime offensive minutes we'd all like to see go to the kids, but that's not necessarily the way coaches think. I could see DJ leaning on Zaitsev too heavily (like how Boucher leaned on Ceci too heaviily) and NZ somehow putting up 30+ points.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I'm of the mind Zaitsev is better offensively than Ceci (better passer anyways) so that may be the disconnect. The way I'm looking at it is, if Ceci can do X Zaitsev can do X + a bit.

Don't disagree with you at all that it would be a bummer to see Zaitsev eating prime offensive minutes we'd all like to see go to the kids, but that's not necessarily the way coaches think. I could see DJ leaning on Zaitsev too heavily (like how Boucher leaned on Ceci too heaviily) and NZ somehow putting up 30+ points.

Yeah, DJ Smith seems awful. I expect to be scratching my head at many of his decisions. Still blows my mind that we hired him.

Anyways, statistically Ceci is a better passer.

 

[stempniaksen]

Yeah, DJ Smith seems awful. I expect to be scratching my head at many of his decisions. Still blows my mind that we hired him.

Anyways, statistically Ceci is a better passer.

I'm probably just in my "I'll give him the benefit of the doubt" stage. I'm sure I'll be a Zaitsev hater in no time if he's anything like Ceci.

 

[Sensinitis]

It's doable if he plays with Chabot but I highly doubt it. Zaitev's rookie year was when he was 25 years old so it wasn't a typical rookie year.

Sure but it was also his first year on the NHL ice so it can be considered a rookie year in that sense. There was an adjustment to be made. I think he can put up 30+ pts playing on the PP from time to time with Chabot. I mean, we've had Ceci and Jaros play the PP last season... If he puts up 2 good years with us I think a team might be willing to bite on the rest of his contract. By then he'll be (only) 30 years old, and will have 3 more years left at 4.5M. If the cap continues to rise and he puts up better numbers with us, I think that's a plausible scenario once JBD makes the squad. Jaros should be an established NHLer by then as well.

He's not going to come close to 40 points. That's bonkers. He has no offensive skill. Please don't saddle poor Chabot with him.

Questionable opinion at best... He hit 36 pts in his first year in the NHL. 4 more pts is nothing extraordinary. He's currently our most skilled RHD so he'll get opportunity, at least this year.

 

[Micklebot]

As of now I have a hard time coming up with 8 forwards that deserve PP time that will be on the team next season. The roster can still change, but I think next years Sens could be the exception when it comes to running a unit with 4F's. That being said, even the most optimistic Zaitsev fan wouldn't stick him on that top unit.

I just think top pairing minutes with Chabot (5 on 5) and some level of PP time (2nd unit with White/Wolanin/ect) could get him into that 35/40 point range. Wouldn't be to the benefit of the team (or the rest of the young D's) long-term to have him eating up those prime minutes, but given how highly DJS has spoken about him, I'm anticipating seeing more of him than any of us will feel comfortable with.

Even in EK's peak the team has always had a 2nd defenceman pace around 30-35 points. I know we'd all like that 2nd guy to be Wolanin/Brannstrom this season, but I think it could be Zaitsev given his presumed role, how much DJS likes/trusts him, ect.

Karlson at his peak had gonchar and kuba as those d. Both had produced on their own prior. After that phaneuf.

 

[stempniaksen]

Karlson at his peak had gonchar and kuba as those d. Both had produced on their own prior. After that phaneuf.

I guess my point was that the Senstors have pretty much always had 2 defencemen score/pace at 30+ points (29 for Ceci last year since we're being specific).

You could obviously point to the lack of talent on this years roster as the counter argument to that. I just think there will be enough of a role that someone other than Chabot will be able to score at that pace and personally, I wouldn't write off Zaitsev from being the guy to do that because of DJ's familiarity with him.

Obviously it would be better for the long-term future of the franchise if Wolanin/Brannstrom can be that guy as soon as this season, I'm just not ready to write Zaitsev off yet.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Questionable opinion at best... He hit 36 pts in his first year in the NHL. 4 more pts is nothing extraordinary. He's currently our most skilled RHD so he'll get opportunity, at least this year.

He was 25 in his rookie season, the same age Ceci is right now. He played mostly alongside Morgan Riellly and got 2:04 of PP time per game.

He has since put up 27 points in 141 games. Cody Ceci scored 10 goals in 2015-16. That's one less than Zaitsev has in his entire career.

I might suggest that that 2016-17 was the exception, not the rule with Zaitsev. In his time in the league, he's been one of the worst Dmen in the league in his zone exits, entries, passing and shooting.

A questionable opinion would be one that goes so contrary to the data available ie the one where 40 points seems plausible. Maybe plausible if you can get Zaitsev playing those big minutes on the PP with the likes of Marner again and 5 on 5 with talents like Matthews. The Sens do not have even close to that. Best we can do is PP time with Duclair and 5 on 5 with Tkachuk.

This "HE SCORED 36 POINTS!" is so similar to Greening getting 30 something points that one year. He so obviously lacked skill and was playing almost all his minutes with Spezza and Karlsson and ONLY got 30ish points. Uninformed people pointed to it as a positive and were so predictably wrong. This is the same thing.