Rays have explored becoming 2 city team (with Montreal) (upd: rejected by MLB)

[Blackhawkswincup]

Find it hard to believe the PA would sign off on that but still. Brunt is about as sterling as it gets reputation/source wise too

I thought the lease would be issue as well?

Surely there will be lawsuit and seeking of injunction to prevent this scheme

 

[tmlms13]

Honestly I think Puerto Rico would be better. It is closer to TB and I bet there are a bunch of MLBers free agents who would love to sign there and get 41 games in their home country. They outdrew Montreal in their split season.

Maybe move the team permanently there. Probably just have to have every home-stand be fairly long, something like 4 - 20 and early late in the season heavy because of heat. All game start 8:00 PM.

I think the biggest problem is the money it would cost to build in the MLB quality TV infrastructure

The San Juan Rays

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

San Juan doesn't have anything close to a major league stadium

The Bithorn Stadium only fits 18,000 people

Its not viable

 

[Bjorn Le]

Honestly I think Puerto Rico would be better. It is closer to TB and I bet there are a bunch of MLBers free agents who would love to sign there and get 41 games in their home country. They outdrew Montreal in their split season.

Maybe move the team permanently there. Probably just have to have every home-stand be fairly long, something like 4 - 20 and early late in the season heavy because of heat. All game start 8:00 PM.

I think the biggest problem is the money it would cost to build in the MLB quality TV infrastructure

The San Juan Rays

No, the biggest problem is Puerto Rico would be by far the poorest market in North American professional sports. Why would you think this is a good idea?

 

[Cas]

Puerto Rico would represent a potential television market of 3.2 million people, physically located in a metro area of about 2.6 million people, that has a GDP per capita of around $32,000.

Tampa is currently in a TV market of 5-6 million people, physically located in a metro area of around 3.1 million people, that has a GDP per capita of around $41,000.

Puerto Rico is both smaller and poorer than the market the Rays are already in, and the cost of travel would go up with the move as well.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

I thought the lease would be issue as well?

Surely there will be lawsuit and seeking of injunction to prevent this scheme

This is all post 2027.

Tampa Bay Rays Montreal Expos 2028 Tropicana Field sign - TSN.ca

The plan involves new stadiums being built in each market, neither of which have been approved by either city. Any potential move or stadium change would take effect no earlier than 2028 as the Rays' lease at Tropicana Field does not expire until the end of the 2027 season.

Is this a way to relocate to Montreal eventually full time without having to buyout the lease?

They cannot move games from Tropicana Field until 2028. This is where I am lost. Why would they not just outright move the team in 2028? Instead building multiple stadiums for a 2 city team? The fans would hate it, they would get no players to sign. Ultimately I think it's just a ploy to get a new Tampa stadium.

 

[JianYang]

I thought the lease would be issue as well?

Surely there will be lawsuit and seeking of injunction to prevent this scheme

I thought I read somewhere that the lease explicitly states that the rays are obligated to play all home games in that dome.

So yeah, it can get messy real fast.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

This is all post 2027.

Tampa Bay Rays Montreal Expos 2028 Tropicana Field sign - TSN.ca




They cannot move games from Tropicana Field until 2028. This is where I am lost. Why would they not just outright move the team in 2028? Instead building multiple stadiums for a 2 city team? The fans would hate it, they would get no players to sign. Ultimately I think it's just a ploy to get a new Tampa stadium.

The whole sister cities thing is not serious. It is just a ploy to put pressure. Heck, if I am the Montreal group, the only reason I am playing along this charade is because I was promised something if I cooperated.

 

[smitty10]

Rays will tout Montreal plan during postseason with sign

Under the plan, which includes new open-air stadiums being built in both markets, the Rays would hold spring training and play roughly into early June in the bay area, then shift to Montreal for the rest of the season. Team officials said postseason games would likely be rotated by year.

“We believe in our sister-city plan; Major League Baseball believes in it fully,’’ Silverman said. “It’s the best and possibly only chance for baseball to be here for generations. That’s been our sole focus. It’s never been about other markets and relocation overtures. It’s always been about how we can make it work here.’’

This is how you force relocation.

- Announce the plan is to build new stadiums in both cities
- One city builds a new stadium, the other "can't get government funding"
- team moves to city with new stadium

 

[Scandale du Jour]

One question I have. People keep talking about the lease as if it was some insurmountable obstacle.

How much would it cost to buy it out?

 

[tmlms13]

Puerto Rico would represent a potential television market of 3.2 million people, physically located in a metro area of about 2.6 million people, that has a GDP per capita of around $32,000.

Tampa is currently in a TV market of 5-6 million people, physically located in a metro area of around 3.1 million people, that has a GDP per capita of around $41,000.

Puerto Rico is both smaller and poorer than the market the Rays are already in, and the cost of travel would go up with the move as well.

Those poor billionaire owners can afford to send their team jet an extra hour.

In Puerto Rico baseball is king, in Tampa Bay, especially right now, it's probably 5th, and that might be generous.

On a Sunday afternoon in September what do you think people are watching on TV in Tampa Bay? The NFL or the Rays?.... What about Puerto Rico? The NFL or their own MLB team. I'd actually argue the TV market in Puerto Rico is bigger because the market share is so much higher.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

One question I have. People keep talking about the lease as if it was some insurmountable obstacle.

How much would it cost to buy it out?

I'm laughing at the thought of Stuart Sternberg spending money, but even if he was, why would he split the season if he could leave. People are misunderstanding this (not directed at you) as Tampa coming to Montreal next year or 2023. It's not. It's for 2028. Which makes the whole thing even dumber. Why would a team that's free to move be a barnstorming team playing in multiple locales. That's why I can't see anything logical except putting pressure on local Tampa government.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I'm laughing at the thought of Stuart Sternberg spending money, but even if he was, why would he split the season if he could leave. People are misunderstanding this (not directed at you) as Tampa coming to Montreal next year or 2023. It's not. It's for 2028. Which makes the whole thing even dumber. Why would a team that's free to move be a barnstorming team playing in multiple locales. That's why I can't see anything logical except putting pressure on local Tampa government.

Ok, but why 2028? The lease, I get it. But why is the lease such a hurdle? How much would it cost to buy it out? Like, is it THAT iron clad?

I am legitimately curious as the whole thing does not make any sense. The sister city concept is clearly a sham. Why advertise it DURING THE PLAYOFFS when it is, at best, 6 years away? They are trying to put pressure on the city, I guess. To get a new stadium approved sooner? But why would they go for it when attendance is dreadful and has been for the entirety of their existence?

 

[Mightygoose]

Ok, but why 2028? The lease, I get it. But why is the lease such a hurdle? How much would it cost to buy it out? Like, is it THAT iron clad?

I am legitimately curious as the whole thing does not make any sense. The sister city concept is clearly a sham. Why advertise it DURING THE PLAYOFFS when it is, at best, 6 years away? They are trying to put pressure on the city, I guess. To get a new stadium approved sooner? But why would they go for it when attendance is dreadful and has been for the entirety of their existence?

All valid questions.

Apparently the lease is iron clad where the team would need to negotiate with the city for a buy out. They did have one from 2016-19 which gave the team a window to look anywhere in the Bay area. During that time, the team perused Ybor City. Since the team didn't chose St. Petersberg, the mayor has refused to negotiate a new out clause since. He's termed out and a new mayor will be in place in January.

I would think the team will try and negotiate a new out clause so they can get to Montreal and/or Tampa sooner in exchange for the Rays share to redevelop the land where the Trop sits.

Hopefully there will be a buyout and then they can drop the split city plan since they can move somewhere else weather in our out of market.

 

[Mightygoose]

Rays backtracking on plans


Sternburg said it was a mistake on his part....and it took him this long to clue in?

 

[Nordskull]

So,
Tampa builds a stadium for 41 games instead of 82.
Montreal builds a stadium for 41 games instead of 82.
And the players association must approve players moving to MTL for the summer.

Of course, it makes sense!

 

[TheTotalPackage]

So,
Tampa builds a stadium for 41 games instead of 82.
Montreal builds a stadium for 41 games instead of 82.
And the players association must approve players moving to MTL for the summer.

Of course, it makes sense!

Imagine being a Rays fan. They draw flies as it is. How do you sell the fanbase to come and support the team and spend money along the way when they get only the first half to see the team and get hardly any, if at all, meaningful baseball?

 

[Bjorn Le]

One question I have. People keep talking about the lease as if it was some insurmountable obstacle.

How much would it cost to buy it out?

The lease is written to deter unilateral breakage. It’s a massive indemnity. We wouldn’t know the number unless it happened, but it’s not viable. However, in the last few years of the lease (I believe it’s 2024), breaking the lease becomes pro-rated to the time remaining. It would be a much smaller sum.

That said, the parties could always negotiate. If it becomes clear that a new stadium cannot be build, it’s possible the city would negotiate a deal even prior to 2024, the city could agree to a new deal to break early.

 

[Pookie]

With Tampa’s owner declaring that the Rays can’t make a full season go of it in Tampa and the plan to share half a season in Montreal.... what are the odds this team relocates there?

Montreal is an historic baseball market. Aside from the Expos, perhaps the most famous example of the connection of the city to the game is that Jackie Robinson played for the Montreal Royals... a farm club for the then Brooklyn Dodgers.

Personally, would love to see MLB baseball back in Montreal.

Seems more of a question of when then if, IMP

 

[adsfan]

What this almost certainly means long term is the Rays are dead in Tampa and this is to give Montreal a jumpstart. Not that there would be a long-term two-team city. Of course they don't want to say that yet because Manfred is a good commissioner and he doesn't want Tampa to drop even farther into the bottom of the barrel, where they not only have shitty attendance but also have shitty TV numbers as well. Selig was too arrogant to understand that.

As somebody who lives in Milwaukee, I can tell you that Selig was too stupid to understand.

Remember the tie in the All Star Game in Milwaukee? What an embarrassment for the city and MLB.

I was at a Packers game about 10 or 12 years ago. Some glazed over drunk stumbled out of a VIP suites elevator and ran into me from behind while I was waiting to leave after the game. Any guess on who it was? He should be happy that I didn't punch him in the jaw when I turned around. I was nearly knocked over and it was crowded at Lambeau Field.

 

[adsfan]

City size is an inherently flawed metric, especially in the US. Hartford itself covers <18 square miles, which is miniscule for a city. That's less than half as much land as the San Franciscos, Pittsburghs, Buffalos, Bostons, etc. of the country that themselves cover 1/5 as much land as a Chicago or Dallas (who themselves cover a fraction as much as the Jacksonvilles and Houstons that just annexed everything around them).

Either way, Hartford's location smack dab between NYC and Boston matters more than Hartford's population. Hartford just can't compete with New York and Boston simultaneously, which puts them inherently behind smaller population centers who would own the market. I'd love few things more than a Whalers revival like the Jets got, but there's a list of reasons why Winnipeg got a second chance while Hartford gets dusted off to be used as a pawn by real estate developers and/or owners looking to dial up the heat on getting a new arena built every few years.

For baseball I think that issue is amplified far more than it is in hockey. The fans who rooted for the Whale and would tearfully root for them again probably have multiple generations of Yankees/Red Sox/Mets/whatever fandom in their households that'd be much harder to shake. Hell, I'm a Pirates fan who does nothing but bitch about the Pirates while living 5 minutes from Dodger Stadium...and I'd rather simply not watch baseball than feel nauseous about being disloyal to an organization that has never done anything to earn that kind of loyalty. Now remember that the Yankees and Red Sox actually try to win things and occasionally to frequently do and just imagine how difficult of a time Hartford would have trying to compete with them.

Whatever issues Montreal has as a market, and it has plenty, are greatly reduced by its size and lack of direct competition. Still have to grow a fan base and nothing grows a fan base better than sustained success, but those are both massive positives.

Wow, Milwaukee is 97 square miles, but the population density is relatively low for 600K. The county has about 400K more and the far suburbs (MSA with Waukesha and Racine) add another million.

I don't think that a 2 cities team can make it. I will cite the KC - Omaha Kings of the NBA.

Tampa - Montreal is borderline nuts.

 

[These Are The Days]

Small headway was made on the stadium front but of course the only thing the Rays had to say for themselves was "We're excited about Montreal" and scurry off without comment.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/tampa...neGPWg-uMFiQ3UG0k5DfPK9i8zg1szfc-hkOsamHxbsRI



Lmao at this f***ing idiot. I hope we build the ballpark without the roof (it's completely unnecessary seeing as like 4 or 5 teams within an hour or so drive operate full time without a roof) and he is forced to sell because he won't let go of this stupid idea

 

[LTIR Trickery]

This is all post 2027.

Tampa Bay Rays Montreal Expos 2028 Tropicana Field sign - TSN.ca




They cannot move games from Tropicana Field until 2028. This is where I am lost. Why would they not just outright move the team in 2028? Instead building multiple stadiums for a 2 city team? The fans would hate it, they would get no players to sign. Ultimately I think it's just a ploy to get a new Tampa stadium.

You finally sorted it all out. Anyone who thinks that this split season thing will happen is optimistic, but outright foolish for a few reasons:
-MLBPA isn't going to go for it
-Players aren't going to go for it, AND further reduce take home pay
-Nobody is Florida is giving that wall street f*** a stadium
-I don't think anyone is stupid enough to give him a stadium in Montreal

That said, I don't see how they stay in Florida because after the shit Stu has pulled for a decade, he can f*** right off and Canada can have him.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

With Tampa’s owner declaring that the Rays can’t make a full season go of it in Tampa and the plan to share half a season in Montreal.... what are the odds this team relocates there?

Montreal is an historic baseball market. Aside from the Expos, perhaps the most famous example of the connection of the city to the game is that Jackie Robinson played for the Montreal Royals... a farm club for the then Brooklyn Dodgers.

Personally, would love to see MLB baseball back in Montreal.

Seems more of a question of when then if, IMP

That makes it historic? lmao

 

[Pookie]

That makes it historic? lmao

When you stop laughing perhaps you could explain your view