Rating Leafs Deadline Trades

[I Believe]

Franson/Santorelli: 8/10
Winnik: 9/10

Really happy with both trades, especially Winniks who most of us felt was worth a 3rd rounder 2-3 months ago. Getting a 2nd and 4th instead is great.

If you told me last year we'd get a 2015 1st for Franson, i'd have called you crazy.

No complaints about those trades at all. If i'm unhappy at the deadline, it'll be because of inactivity.

 

[yubbers]

Are people honestly forgetting how BAD Franson was last year? Like he was awful, and almost the entirety of this board was wanting him gone for nothing.

He scored a couple goals. All was forgotten.

Leafs land

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Franson/Santo: B
Winnik: A

Was hoping for a little more for Franson. Got more than I thought we'd get for Winnik.

 

[Tak7]

Are people honestly forgetting how BAD Franson was last year? Like he was awful, and almost the entirety of this board was wanting him gone for nothing.

Yep - and very few were complaining about the potential Franson-Gorges trade either.

The Leafs got a good ~50 games out of a guy playing an elevated role in the lineup, and cashed in with a 1st rounder.

Overall:

A 1st, a 2nd, a 4th, and a decent looking prospect is great for 3 rentals.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Early polling seems to indicate Nonis has done a good job. Maybe his expected departure is premature.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Early polling seems to indicate Nonis has done a good job. Maybe his expected departure is premature.

Nonis as a traditional GM has been bad, and most want him gone because of his past performance. I try to view it in terms of what we want and need moving forward.

I think the biggest change in terms of management has been that we've gone from having Nonis in a leading role to having a group making decisions, with Shanahan as chairman. We have Hunter with his input, and his expertise on drafting and developing, Dubas and his input with emphasis on statistical support, and Shanahan with his experience from a very successful organisation. My feeling from what I've seen is that although Shanahan is the top guy now, he doesn't carry as much of the load as Nonis did before. With the previous management group, I just don't see anyone really sharing the decision-making with Nonis.

So what we need from the fourth member of that group is someone who can negotiate and has the contacts, someone who can put down the work when the group, including him, has taken a decision on how to move forward. And when being directed like that, I have no problem with Nonis being that guy. I like the decisions made by this group so far, and I think Nonis can do a decent job of carrying out those decisions.

 

[Vexed]

Nonis as a traditional GM has been bad, and most want him gone because of his past performance. I try to view it in terms of what we want and need moving forward.

I think the biggest change in terms of management has been that we've gone from having Nonis in a leading role to having a group making decisions, with Shanahan as chairman. We have Hunter with his input, and his expertise on drafting and developing, Dubas and his input with emphasis on statistical support, and Shanahan with his experience from a very successful organisation. My feeling from what I've seen is that although Shanahan is the top guy now, he doesn't carry as much of the load as Nonis did before.

So what we need from the fourth member of that group is someone who can negotiate and has the contacts, someone who can put down the work when the group, including him, has taken a decision on how to move forward. And when being directed like that, I have no problem with Nonis being that guy.

I do agree with that since it seems to be his strength as a front office guy. He always seemed to get the credit when working out the good deals someone else decided we wanted to pursue.

 

[Paradoc]

Franson trade was great. Many people wanted to trade him for trash last season. For example...

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1713235&highlight=franson
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1578607&highlight=franson

Winnik trade was great as well. Leafs management doing something good for once...

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Nonis as a traditional GM has been bad, and most want him gone because of his past performance. I try to view it in terms of what we want and need moving forward.

I think the biggest change in terms of management has been that we've gone from having Nonis in a leading role to having a group making decisions, with Shanahan as chairman. We have Hunter with his input, and his expertise on drafting and developing, Dubas and his input with emphasis on statistical support, and Shanahan with his experience from a very successful organisation. My feeling from what I've seen is that although Shanahan is the top guy now, he doesn't carry as much of the load as Nonis did before. With the previous management group, I just don't see anyone really sharing the decision-making with Nonis.

So what we need from the fourth member of that group is someone who can negotiate and has the contacts, someone who can put down the work when the group, including him, has taken a decision on how to move forward. And when being directed like that, I have no problem with Nonis being that guy. I like the decisions made by this group so far, and I think Nonis can do a decent job of carrying out those decisions.

Nonis is apparently respected by his peers, I have heard other GM's talk about him and all I have heard is he knows the business and he is very capable handling the duties of the front office. He was 28 when he was in the front office, so he has many years of experience.

This tweet from Damien Cox 2 weeks ago is telling just who is steering the ship.

Damien Cox@DamoSpin · Feb 15

Leafs are only team in hockey where ppl will honestly argue assistant GM is the one really in charge.



 

[-DeMo-]

Slaney + Lebda for Lombardi + Franson

In some way that's Franson for Lebda. We actual got more value out of Lombardi than Nashville got for both Slaney and Lebda as at least he played for the Leafs for a while.

So Lebda + Slaney + Santorelli = 2015 1st + Leipsic + Olli Jokinen + Lombardi

I know what the trade was, lebda went the other way, but 90 percent of the discussion for this trade was what we would get in return for taking Lombardi's contract, once that was finalized we through in 2 contracts and that's it, there was never a we'll give you Lebda and you add franson part. Lebda was only in there because someone had to go back in the deal. we were at the 50 contract limit I believe so 2 guys had to go back. if we don't take Lombardi's contract we don't get franson, the reason we got Franson is because we ate Lombardi's contract, we didn't trade Lebda for him.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Nonis is apparently respected by his peers, I have heard other GM's talk about him and all I have heard is he knows the business and he is very capable handling the duties of the front office. He was 28 when he was in the front office, so he has many years of experience.

This tweet from Damien Cox a couple 2 weeks ago is telling just who is steering the ship.

My feeling of the decision-making is that Shanahan, Nonis, Hunter and Dubas makes them together, with the pecking order Shan - No - Hunt - Du, for all that matters. Like you I don't believe that Nonis is sitting outside and then get told what to do by a Hunter or Dubas. I think they are all in on the decisions though.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Slaney + Lebda for Lombardi + Franson

In some way that's Franson for Lebda. We actual got more value out of Lombardi than Nashville got for both Slaney and Lebda as at least he played for the Leafs for a while.

So Lebda + Slaney + Santorelli = 2015 1st + Leipsic + Olli Jokinen + Lombardi

That Lebda for a salary dump that got us Franson, was all Brian Burke. He recognized Nashville's cap crunch, was proactive in getting in touch with Poille, and a deal was worked out. Poille did not want to do this deal, but had no choice. Burke beat other GM's in getting Franson for free. The recouped 1st rd pick this year was the direct result of Burke's savviness as a GM.

 

[pheasant]

If you would've told me at the beginning of the year that the Leafs would have:

2015 1st round pick
2016 2nd round pick
2015 4th round pick
Brendan Leipsic
Zach Sill

for Franson, Santorelli, Winnik I would've laughed my ass off. Very good so far from the Leafs

I'm with this guy. Who would have turned this down?

If we can manage to make a couple other small time deals, like Booth for a 6th, then it will be like we just added an entire draft!

This is what we should have been doing for years, and I really hope we end up making similar UFA pick ups next year, too, so we can be sellers like this again!

 

[Mess]

After Santorelli and Winnik resign in Toronto in the offseason it will look like;

Franson for 1st, 2nd, 4th, Leipsic and Sill.

That said ..

I like Carolina deal of Dman Roland McKeown and 1st-rd pick in 2015 for Andrej Sekera better Than >> Nashville 1st round pick in 2015 for Cody Franson. Canes did better than the Leafs here. IMO

McKeown was a 2nd round pick last year and LA's pick (unless they repeat) will be earlier than Nashville pick. Where Leafs had to toss in Santorelli (a valuable trade chip) to get prospect Leipsic. Had Leafs waited they likely could have gotten the LA deal for Franson themselves.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

My feeling of the decision-making is that Shanahan, Nonis, Hunter and Dubas makes them together, with the pecking order Shan - No - Hunt - Du, for all that matters. Like you I don't believe that Nonis is sitting outside and then get told what to do by a Hunter or Dubas. I think they are all in on the decisions though.

I would agree with this, it's a group think tank of Pridham, Dub, Shan, Hunter, and Nonis. But Nonis is the one in charge beyond Shanahan.

 

[RyanOhReally]

I know what the trade was, lebda went the other way, but 90 percent of the discussion for this trade was what we would get in return for taking Lombardi's contract, once that was finalized we through in 2 contracts and that's it, there was never a we'll give you Lebda and you add franson part. Lebda was only in there because someone had to go back in the deal. we were at the 50 contract limit I believe so 2 guys had to go back. if we don't take Lombardi's contract we don't get franson, the reason we got Franson is because we ate Lombardi's contract, we didn't trade Lebda for him.

You're arguing the reasoning, I'm arguing the actual trade. On paper, its those guys for these guys. The fact that we got Franson for basically free is astounding when you then consider what he has brought us back in return. It's about the same as trading Winnik and Santorelli.

Lebda + Slaney for Lombardi + Franson is just as much TAKE LOMBARDI AND WE'LL GIVE YOU FRANSON FOR FREE when you add in that Slaney and Lebda never played for Nashville (I think Lebda played for Milwaukee but that's moot). I don't even think Robert Slaney plays anymore..

 

[Hotel Mario]

I will rate both trades as a B, or good. Received draft picks + Leipsic that was needed, but neither trade was a clear home run.

This doesn't let Nonis off the hook at all, selling pending UFA's happen every year. Let's see him trade somebody with term, and then judge the return.

 

[Northern Dancer]

Franson+Santorelli for the 25-30th pick and a B class prospect was not great.

Winnik for 2nd in 2016, again not great, could have gotten a 2nd in 2015.

And where did you extract this little pearl from?

 

[Gallagbi]

Seems weird to rate Torontos deadline deals as a whole when the deadline hasn't passed.

 

[ACC1224]

Seems weird to rate Torontos deadline deals as a whole when the deadline hasn't passed.

Does seem very premature, not sure why anyone would vote yet.

 

[Trapper]

Seems weird to rate Torontos deadline deals as a whole when the deadline hasn't passed.

Hard to even rate the deals until players are selected from those picks.
If the rebuild goal is:
Acquire as many picks as possible over the next 5 years, then we are off to a good start.

Now work on deals to move Bozak/Kessel/Phaneuf and I'm good.

 

[GoonieFace]

Franson+Santorelli for the 25-30th pick and a B class prospect was not great.

Winnik for 2nd in 2016, again not great, could have gotten a 2nd in 2015.

Im sure if they could have gotten better value they would have. I dont understand comments like these. Nobody here has any insight as to what has been offered by any team, so its safe to assume they took the best offer they had.

Anytime you can get 2 decent picks for a UFA 3rd liner, its a good haul

 

[Beleafer4]

Franson + Santorelli -->B
Winnik -->A

OT but
Sekera-->A++

I agree with Nithoniel on how our GM team is more of a group than a one man solo team, but I feel we could definitely get a better negotiator than Nonis.

 

[RLF]

He scored a couple goals. All was forgotten.

Leafs land

funny how you're forgetting he was pretty solid before last season. That was all forgotten as well...selective memories.

Played well for season and a half...he's looking great

then a bad season...he sucks, he's an ahl defenceman

then a good season...he's great, we should easily get a 1st round pick for him, he's worth $4+ mil a year.

THAT'S Leafland.

 

[Gallagbi]

Hard to even rate the deals until players are selected from those picks.
If the rebuild goal is:
Acquire as many picks as possible over the next 5 years, then we are off to a good start.

Now work on deals to move Bozak/Kessel/Phaneuf and I'm good.

I don't even mind judging on the picks themselves, because that's the currency right now, but lumping the trades together and doing it before the deadline even hits is odd.