Rank the playoffs goalies
- Thread starter BrendanGallagher11
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Gabe Kupari
Registered User
1.Rinne
2.Gibson
3. Fleury
The rest to be determined. I don't think you can really argue any differently that the teams who have already won their series, their Goaltending has been a big reason for it.
2.Gibson
3. Fleury
The rest to be determined. I don't think you can really argue any differently that the teams who have already won their series, their Goaltending has been a big reason for it.
I actually think Lundqvist has been pretty solid but not like otherworldly Lundqvist he has been in the past. Hate to say it but I think his game really did take a not insignificant downturn this season, he just seems a bit less sure of himself on saves and with rebounds. That said, he's stopping most of them these days and giving his team a chance to win.
- Apr 27, 2005
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Thread The Needle
I have no strong feelings one way or the other.
I'll put Allen up there too. STL may not have won (yet), but he really stole a game or two.
TedLundy
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- Dec 2, 2014
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It's really great to see Lundqvist turning it up in the playoffs. Both Price and Lundqvist have been great and shouldn't be taking the blame for each teams losses.
How old is Lundqvist now? 34-35? I was one of the guys who thought he was done this year, he sure proved me wrong. The King is know for consistency after all. He's my goalie MVP this far.
How old is Lundqvist now? 34-35? I was one of the guys who thought he was done this year, he sure proved me wrong. The King is know for consistency after all. He's my goalie MVP this far.
35
Hopefully Shestyorkin comes over soon to take up the torch as Lundqvist hits the end of his career...
These playoffs have proven that Lunqvist is better than Price, Rinne and Fleury aren't as overrated/bad as initially thought, Allen is a legit #1.
Sojourn
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- Nov 1, 2006
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jeangauthier
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Chimpradamus
Registered User
Pretty good for someone who is not as good as in the past and looks less sure of himself:
Henrik Lundqvist |61|40| 37 |.892|.944|2.20
Sergei Bobrovsky|53|47| 37 |.73|.882|2.60
M-A Fleury|75|51| 33 |.758|.933|4.20
Jake Allen |67|32| 19 |.945|.966|1.75
Pekka Rinne |60|36| 15 |.933|.976|3.25
The only goalies facing 30+ high danger shots are Lundqvist, Bobrovsky and Fleury. Bob is out and Fleury has had the best goal support to cover for it. Crawford faced 28, saved 71% of them and his team is out. Price has faced 27 of them, saved 78% of them and his team is trailing.
Most goalies who have faced a high amount of high danger chances, a.k.a. have been under great pressure, have had a tough time saving more than 75% of them. Except for Lundqvist.
Rinne and Allen have been very steady this playoffs, but it's not like they have stolen anything, especially not Rinne (very good goal support while facing a measly 15 high danger shots). The two combined haven't even faced as many high danger shots as the goalies who have faced the most. Allen's abysmal 1.75 goal support and holding the fort is still admirable though and I can see a case for him, but it's not like his defense has overall been garbage, like it has for Lundqvist, Bobrovsky and Fleury.
Lundqvist's incredible 89.2% against 37 high danger shots really stick out, but I guess it's a better story to go with Rinne and Allen. Rinne is one I cannot see as some MVP, the whole Preds team played really well with a few sticking out beside him. You don't sweep CHI with only great goaltending, not a chance, they simply were the better team.
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One of the problems that I have with these sorts of analyses is that they're too simplistic in their view of the game. It doesn't allow for the quality of guy making the shot, the level of traffic in front of the goalie, or whether it was a straight shot, tip, or rebound to an open net.
For example, consider a shot from the point that rebounds off a player in front leaving an open net shot from the side of the net. I don't care who you are, you're not stopping that. This is considered in the same light as a weak shot from a guy who's being flattened and is halfway flat on his back.
My point is that a goalie's stats have a lot that play into them. The quality of the opposition's shots, where the shot's targeted, the quality of their own team's defense.
While Lundqvist is a good goalie, he's not 'that' much better than other goalies in the league and - if I might be so bold - I don't actually think he's as good as Price these days with a like-for-like team in front of him.
Ultimately, he's doing the job to give his team a chance to win. That's what you ask for from your goalie. The numbers often are misleading. The seeing eye test is the only test that makes any difference.
Would be nice if you posted the results for all playoff goalies.
I also think all shots are relevant but maybe using a factor to make HDSA>>MDSA>>LDSA... x2 for HD, x1.5 for MD, x1 for LD.
If I have time later I will try to chart this and see how the list looks.
@Chimp
Like the analysis, but I would convert the absolute shot counts into a per game ratio. Preds series was over in 4; other goalies all have an extra game of shot counts I believe. Not going to change the analysis / findings much at the end of the day though; agree that Pekka faced less dangerous chances than most of his peers by virtue of our team defense.
Like the analysis, but I would convert the absolute shot counts into a per game ratio. Preds series was over in 4; other goalies all have an extra game of shot counts I believe. Not going to change the analysis / findings much at the end of the day though; agree that Pekka faced less dangerous chances than most of his peers by virtue of our team defense.
thedustman
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- Jun 19, 2013
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Very impressed with Price, he is getting a lot of heat but I think Price might be the goalie that eventually can challenge Lundqvist as more or less the year in and year out Play-Off King. The POs are a different animal and he isn't there yet, but I don't really buy into the trashing off Price. He is a heck of a goalie and his top game isn't far behind Hank's.
Chimpradamus
Registered User
http://www.corsica.hockey/goalies/
Of course stats don't tell the whole truth, of course the sample of games is small and of course shots get registered wrong here and there (changes projectory, screened, etc), but even then, they tell something of a story and even after these few games, there's quite alot of them.
I didn't say Rinne and Allen for example haven't faced difficult shots, they have, plenty of them. They just haven't faced the sheer amount of them as some other goalies this playoffs, at least not yet. I don't think the stats are lying about that. The Preds pretty much dominated CHI. Allen's biggest effort was holding the fort, because neither Minnesota nor St Louis could find room in the right areas to score. Am I wrong? Perhaps, but that's what the numbers say.
Of course stats don't tell the whole truth, of course the sample of games is small and of course shots get registered wrong here and there (changes projectory, screened, etc), but even then, they tell something of a story and even after these few games, there's quite alot of them.
I didn't say Rinne and Allen for example haven't faced difficult shots, they have, plenty of them. They just haven't faced the sheer amount of them as some other goalies this playoffs, at least not yet. I don't think the stats are lying about that. The Preds pretty much dominated CHI. Allen's biggest effort was holding the fort, because neither Minnesota nor St Louis could find room in the right areas to score. Am I wrong? Perhaps, but that's what the numbers say.
Bjornar Moxnes
Stem Rødt og Felix Unger Sörum
Rinne and Allen both stole game 1. While Rinne didn't steal game 2, he dictated the play with his puck abilities and puck tracking and freezing. On the other side of the spectrum Crawford made some really bone headed plays that lead to more scoring chances for the Preds (Johansen goal is the main one), chances that had nothing to do with the Hawks defense. Rinne stole game 4 to a degree, as he kept it close and reasonable until the Preds began scoring more. Game 3 was all Preds, but again Rinne dictated every single game in the series and completely eliminated the Hawks forecheck and cycle which is key to producing high danger chances. Allen simply hindered the Wild's forecheck and cycle, but he didn't eliminate anything. Lundqvist didn't do anything but stop the pucks shot at him and control his rebounds. Fleury and Bobrovsky are the same, they simply stopped pucks, nothing else. An elite goalie is a goalie that posts fantastic stats and dictates the game. That's why I put Rinne as the most elite, and Allen the 2nd so far in the playoffs.
Good for Hank to win this matchup, I am bit tired of all the biased praise for Price in North America.
Difficult to say if Allen, Rinne or Hank is number yet so far though, all have been spectacular. I would say Hank because St Louis and Nashville are most probably better teams than Rangers, at least looking at the offensive side.
Rangers will be eliminated next round if they don't get the offense going, Hank is great but unfortunately human.
Difficult to say if Allen, Rinne or Hank is number yet so far though, all have been spectacular. I would say Hank because St Louis and Nashville are most probably better teams than Rangers, at least looking at the offensive side.
Rangers will be eliminated next round if they don't get the offense going, Hank is great but unfortunately human.
Yeah maybe. But I also think that the trashing of Price for his PO performance are going a bit over the top.
For me it comes down to this. Nobody other than Crosby can play as well as Crosby, even for 60 minutes. But there are 100's of goalies in the world that for a night can stop any puck thrown at them. With the exact same result, more or less at least, had any other goalie gotten the job done. A Tanner Glass can score a GWer, but he still won't have helped as team as much as Crosby does. In its extension, we also see goalies play well for a season here and there. We all know who they are, just look at the Vezina finalists the last 20 years. Many had a good year or two in pretty avg. careers. Always backed up by the best defenses, funny isn't it. Must be a pure coincidence...
Even if Hank stole the series for NYR and was better than Price, I still think Price is the goalie in the NHL that is closest to challenge Hank as the King in the POs. I wouldn't at all be surprised if Price also sooner rather than later reaches a stage where he more or less also can win PO series for MTL by himself like Hank have done the last decade for NY. In the meanwhile, NHL GMs will decorate the Jim Carey's of the league, Holtby, Bobo and co will walk away many times over as decorated as Hank and Price ever will be. That is their, the NHL GMs, right. But from my POV Price is on another level than these one hit wonders. JMHO.
Agreed, being a hockey goalie is a tough position, that's for sure.
People tend to judge the goalie first after a loss even though the team played very poorly. In fact, I find a lot of people and fans being totally incompetent judging a goalie, very annoying.
Sometimes even coaches overlook the goalie, sacking the goalie too quickly even though they have much worse problems as a team. We saw this tendency for many years in Toronto, it was a like a graveyard for hockey goalies.
thedustman
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- Jun 19, 2013
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Allen has the highest high danger save percentage? It isn't like he stole anything, though. The number of high danger shots involves poor rebounds given up by the goalies that must face another high danger shot. Who has the best high danger save percentage?
It is just odd that the same goalie listed as #16 among a lot of HFers and the same team listed often as bottom two among remaining teams, can be used against each other.
thedustman
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- Jun 19, 2013
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Don't mean to single any list out, because a lot of people's lists looked similar... but I'm bumping this just to keep it around. A lot of us were so wrong, so far.
Bjornar Moxnes
Stem Rødt og Felix Unger Sörum
Not just rebound control, because Lundqvist has elite rebound control, whereas Dubnyk has dreadful rebound control, and even worse puck handling abilities and yet he faces extremely low high danger shots. Rinne other than 2016-2017 regular season and lockout (And even then only Lundqvist was better in lockout) has always had the best puck frozen percentage in the league, and he usually kicks his rebounds out to low danger areas, making it easy for the Dman to clear. Rinne is also one of the best puck moving goalies in the league, completely destroying opposition forecheck and cycles. Allen is a very good puck moving goalie as well and an above average puck tracker and freezer, but Rinne clearly outranks him there. (And yes I'm quite aware both Rinne and Allen have made some terrible puck plays when they moved the puck and gave up the occasional terrible rebound, but the amount of times they prevent unnecessary chances and relative to other goalies giving up brutal chances by themselves (Hint hint Crawford and Dubnyk), they're awesome).
Bjornar Moxnes
Stem Rødt og Felix Unger Sörum
The way the playoffs have looked his list looks like a complete reversal except for Elliott, Elliott has been the worst goalie in the playoffs.
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