Ail
Based and Rangerspilled.
I think he has potential and I'm glad they got him signed. Let's see what he brings to the Pack.
Confirmed with Link: Rangers sign Boo Nieves
- Thread starter RangerBoy
- Start date
FLYLine27*
BUCH
Excellent. I think he could be a good pro. The talk of him being limited to a third or fourth liner are extremely premature. He has the talent to play in a top six role. He needs to get stronger and make better decision with the puck. Glad he's on board, though. In terms of raw talent, he's near the top of our prospect pool.
pld459666
Registered User
I'm a fan of getting all of our drafted kids signed. Was expecting a bit more out of Boo, especially after his first year where he posted 29pts in 40 games, but he seems to have plateaued on the production side.
Hope the rest of his game came around he became a better all around player.
Hope the rest of his game came around he became a better all around player.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
Beacon
Embrace the tank
- May 28, 2007
- 13,676
- 1,454
Look at it this way: neither does Hrivik, and I think it's clear that he can be a 4th line player sooner rather than later. Nieves is a bit bigger, a bit faster, and sees the ice much better. Hrivik gets into the offensive zone and gets lost there; at least Nieves can make a decent pass there.
If Nieves develops properly, he can be at least equal to a Hrivik-type 4th liner. His ceiling is a bit higher, however. The additional size, speed and passing ability gives him the ability to be a decent third liner. We'll see if that happens.
Igor Shestyorkin
#26, the sickest of 'em all.
RangerBoy
Dolan sucks!!!
The Rangers are trying to get Fogarty under contract. They might be holding off on announcing Nieves because of Fogarty. A dual press release.
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
- 44,873
- 40,410
RangerBoy
Dolan sucks!!!
eco's bones
Registered User
It's good that we signed him.
My main issue with him is he never was able to score enough goals at the college to make me think he could be any kind of a goal scoring threat as a pro. Upside somewhere between Jesper Fast and Viktor Stalberg. Good size--really good skater--creative hands but in no way a guy who finishes plays. Daniel Paille would be another comparable--obviously not the one that's burned out right now--more like the 4th liner the Bruins used as a PK'er energy guy. Great skater--never could finish enough.
My main issue with him is he never was able to score enough goals at the college to make me think he could be any kind of a goal scoring threat as a pro. Upside somewhere between Jesper Fast and Viktor Stalberg. Good size--really good skater--creative hands but in no way a guy who finishes plays. Daniel Paille would be another comparable--obviously not the one that's burned out right now--more like the 4th liner the Bruins used as a PK'er energy guy. Great skater--never could finish enough.
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
I'm not so sure Michigan was a good team for his development.
As time went on he was overshadowed by other teammates. He was never 'the guy' for Michigan. Some of that was on him, some of it was just bad timing. I wonder if he would've been better off transferring or going to the CHL.
JT Miller was originally going to North Dakota, if he had stayed at ND all 4 years this would have been his rookie year in the pros.
As time went on he was overshadowed by other teammates. He was never 'the guy' for Michigan. Some of that was on him, some of it was just bad timing. I wonder if he would've been better off transferring or going to the CHL.
JT Miller was originally going to North Dakota, if he had stayed at ND all 4 years this would have been his rookie year in the pros.
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I think he pretty much lived up to his billing - fast player with good size and limited hands. Not sure if it was a matter of how he utilized or Michigan's program or other factors.
I mean, we're still talking about a guy who cracked double digit goals exactly once - and that was a senior and after working his rear-end off after getting a talking to by the Rangers. And watching him play, I can really say it was because of a lack of chances or because of a role he played. His hands noticeably lag behind his skating and his shots are seldom dangerous.
If he brings some scoring at the pro level, great. But there aren't many guys who suddenly become better scorers at the higher level. (Though it does happen). Generally speaking, the guys who make "Better pros than junior players" usually do a better job of maintaining their production levels as oppossed to actually increasing those levels.
Ultimately, I don't think he has to have hidden offensive talent to be seen as a guy who has the potential to play a solid role down the line.
I mean, we're still talking about a guy who cracked double digit goals exactly once - and that was a senior and after working his rear-end off after getting a talking to by the Rangers. And watching him play, I can really say it was because of a lack of chances or because of a role he played. His hands noticeably lag behind his skating and his shots are seldom dangerous.
If he brings some scoring at the pro level, great. But there aren't many guys who suddenly become better scorers at the higher level. (Though it does happen). Generally speaking, the guys who make "Better pros than junior players" usually do a better job of maintaining their production levels as oppossed to actually increasing those levels.
Ultimately, I don't think he has to have hidden offensive talent to be seen as a guy who has the potential to play a solid role down the line.
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
Well, he's largely maintained his production. I see his upside as a 15/20 guy. We need players like that, so it's not a negative.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Now, see this where I get concerned.
Scoring 15-20 goals is a pretty decent clip in today's NHL - that's essentially top 6 winger numbers - the higher end of which would make him fourth to as high as second on the team in any season from the past few years.
I feel like this is why a lot of people get so down on our young players --- over-projecting.
I'm happy we signed the guy, but in the course of one afternoon, he's gone from a bit of a long-shot/fourth line potential, to third line potential with offensive upside, to top 6 guys with 15-20 goal potential.
Again, I just don't see it. And truthfully, I don't have to "see it." There's just part of me that is dreading the discussion 9-12 months from now when expectations come back down to reality --- typically after we've included a player in every imaginable trade possible.
I don't think that any of the people touting his upside as more than a fourth liner have arrived at this conclusion this afternoon, and it's a bit insulting to suggest so. BN, Jon, ODC and myself have all been pretty consistently higher on him than the board's consensus.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
hes 6'2 and @ 190 and has a good strong stride. coach berenson is a legend. playing at yost arena is an amazing experience. he's got good bloodlines coming from that program.
hes a terrific kid who will graduate with his degree btw.
quality people, size and stride and instruction from the u of m is fine with me. he's a good add to the prospect pool.
he's got offensive ability and thats all i need to know to give the kid the benefit of the doubt.
he thinks offense. he's long with great reach. he can make plays and he can push the puck. all good with me.
hes a terrific kid who will graduate with his degree btw.
quality people, size and stride and instruction from the u of m is fine with me. he's a good add to the prospect pool.
he's got offensive ability and thats all i need to know to give the kid the benefit of the doubt.
he thinks offense. he's long with great reach. he can make plays and he can push the puck. all good with me.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I don't think you guys arrived at the consensus this afternoon, but then again I don't recall saying that you guys did.
I also don't recall you guys projecting 20 goals for Nieves either. So I'm even more puzzled by your feeling insulted.
Moving past the confusion, I'm kind of curious. Even taking into account roles and the changing nature of the sport, how many guys who scored 28 goals in their entire 4- year college go onto score 20 goals at the NHL level?
Or how many guys who were never seen as go-to scorers at the junior or college level end up being the second or third highest goal scorer for an NHL team? Because if were projecting 15-20 goals, that's what we're looking at.
At best it's pretty rare. At worst its unprecedented.
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Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
Honestly, didn't think i set a bar for Nieves, I've never really been too high or too low on him. I liked the pick in 2012, kinda thought we were getting a skilled playmaking center with size, so maybe the bar was set high.
Nieves is a good hockey player. I don't think he is that far behind the Kempe kid drafted by LA in the first round last year for example. Good speed, good size, can make plays at high speed etc.
Obviously he lacks a few things offensively though. From what I've seen of him, his offense mostly comes from going to the net at high speed. In a perfect environment, sometimes you can get good numbers from that. Especially if a center like that have someone riding shotgun next to them that is really effective in that style too. But most often offense and good numbers comes from special teams and ability to control the attacking zone. Nieves don't really have that ability.
Often when we talk about prospects, the discussion comes down to a kid being one or two or three steps behind what it will take. And the fair assessment is that a kid just will need to improve all over, add strength, become more explosive and so forth. Take a kid like Kovac for example, all you can say is that he looks really good, but that it of course will take more to get to the NHL. And sometimes someone will ask if that aren't just cliches, can't that be said about all prospects? Boo Nieves is a good example of a player on the different side of the spectrum. I don't necessarily see the need for him to grow, becomes faster, stronger etc. For a kid like him its much more about finding -- an identity -- in the pro game. He was a very solid scoring center in college. He will not become that, in the near future at least to be on the safe side, in the NHL. So what will he become? So what will he become? A checking center? A decent 2-way winger? A checking winger? How can he utilize his game in pro hockey? Can he find any go to area that he can get offense from somewhat regularly? This is the big challenge for him when moving up to the pro game no doubt. He plays a role in college that he definitely cannot play in the NHL, so what role can he play in the NHL then? How can he adjust to that role?
I think it will be exciting following him in HFD in the near future. I wouldn't bet the house on him, but he has a shot at making it to the NHL. He wasn't the pick that we hit jack-pot on, but he had a decent platform and he has done his part working out hard developing his overall game and we have also helped him along the way with camps etc. Now we have a quality hockey players on our hands. I would put him behind Anisimov for sure, but he isn't on a different planet. Can he close the gap?
Obviously he lacks a few things offensively though. From what I've seen of him, his offense mostly comes from going to the net at high speed. In a perfect environment, sometimes you can get good numbers from that. Especially if a center like that have someone riding shotgun next to them that is really effective in that style too. But most often offense and good numbers comes from special teams and ability to control the attacking zone. Nieves don't really have that ability.
Often when we talk about prospects, the discussion comes down to a kid being one or two or three steps behind what it will take. And the fair assessment is that a kid just will need to improve all over, add strength, become more explosive and so forth. Take a kid like Kovac for example, all you can say is that he looks really good, but that it of course will take more to get to the NHL. And sometimes someone will ask if that aren't just cliches, can't that be said about all prospects? Boo Nieves is a good example of a player on the different side of the spectrum. I don't necessarily see the need for him to grow, becomes faster, stronger etc. For a kid like him its much more about finding -- an identity -- in the pro game. He was a very solid scoring center in college. He will not become that, in the near future at least to be on the safe side, in the NHL. So what will he become? So what will he become? A checking center? A decent 2-way winger? A checking winger? How can he utilize his game in pro hockey? Can he find any go to area that he can get offense from somewhat regularly? This is the big challenge for him when moving up to the pro game no doubt. He plays a role in college that he definitely cannot play in the NHL, so what role can he play in the NHL then? How can he adjust to that role?
I think it will be exciting following him in HFD in the near future. I wouldn't bet the house on him, but he has a shot at making it to the NHL. He wasn't the pick that we hit jack-pot on, but he had a decent platform and he has done his part working out hard developing his overall game and we have also helped him along the way with camps etc. Now we have a quality hockey players on our hands. I would put him behind Anisimov for sure, but he isn't on a different planet. Can he close the gap?
I interpreted the post as Jon stating that his upside was a 15 goal, 20 assist guy, which given his skill set, isn't crazy. The key term in that post was "upside," which as we all know most players never truly fulfill. I don't think it's at all unreasonable to suggest that if things break right for Nieves that he can become a 35 point player. If he doesn't hit his upside, he's a third or fourth line guy, which seems to be more in line with the consensus of what he'll become. I didn't see anything remotely controversial in the post you initially responded to.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I agree, I don't see anything controversial either --- just very, highly unlikely.
I mean in the grand scheme of things, anything is possible --- there's just varying degrees of it happening.
Could a guy who scores 28 goals over an entire four year college career put up 20 goals in the NHL? In theory, yes.
What are the odds of said player putting up 20 goals at the NHL level? Maybe 1 or 2 percent?
My concern, if we even want to call it that, is that we associate upside with offense. That, on some level, the level of success we hope for with Nieves (and Fogarty) is tied to goal production or offense.
In both their cases, I just don't think that's a fair or "reasonable" expectation --- it's also not really based on any kind of precedent.
If history is any kind of judge, and Nieves progresses, and we're fortunate, 10 goals in 35 NCAA games might translate to about 10 in 82 NHL games. That'd be fantastic.
I'd be hard pressed to find a 10 goal scoring forward at the college level, who suddently doubled their totals at the NHL level --- even with the longer schedule.
007
You 'Orns!
When I hear speed, I think defence. I haven't followed college hockey closely -- how is Boo's defensive play?
