Post-Game Talk: Rangers @ Devils - February 2

NYRKindms

Registered User
Dec 16, 2009
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You people have an extremely liberal definition of "unprecedented success". AV is absolutely not immortal. He's not a multi-cup coach with a proven track record of winning at high times. He has a track record of multiple failures (that likely aren't his fault or doing), so pardon people for not having as much patience with him as you'd like.

I agree with this. The guy has won NOTHING. He has brought his system to the dance a few times and EVERY time he loses to the more physical, cycling team. EVERYTIME.

There is reason very few if any other teams use his style of play. So you have to ask yourself does AV know something all of them don't ? I think the answer is NO.

Zone Defense is easier to play, you don't have to move around as much and every kid is taught to play that way from like day 1.

I cannot see how a coach would look at his team and all the defensive zone break downs and the personnel he has to work with and would still come away thinking MAN D is the way to go. It just isn't, not with these guys. You would really need to have a mobile group of 6 to even think about playing that way and we have maybe 3.
 

SnowblindNYR

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Nov 16, 2011
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Av has his positives as long as his favorites are the horses on the team. When they start to decline and young guys (or even old vets like Yandle) that's when his flaws are really obvious. He's a stubborn coach that is either oblivious or just plain arrogant.
 

OverTheCap

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Jan 3, 2009
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Man defense is a good system IF you have the right type of personnel for it. Since AV was hired, there have been stretches where the team can pull it off, but there have also been stretches where it hasn't worked effectively and they struggle to execute the system.

Outside of a few months in 2014, I'm not sure if man defense was ever the right system for this team. It definitely isn't right now. One of the most important elements of this system is communication and on-ice awareness and there's been barely any of that this year.
 

ThatsNashty61*

Guest
Nevesis,

You gotta stop. Every day we all sit and read your unrelenting defense of Hank's performance whether he is good or bad.

Bottom line; we lost last night because Cory Schneider was light years better than Hank. We had the better chances all night. CS came up huge. Hank played an average game. He made most of the routine saves and a few strong ones but at the end of the day, if both teams received the same goalie play, we win.

As for the goals against. The first one is PP shot from the point that becomes a rebound for LS to bang in. Should he have stopped Stempniak's shot? No. Could he have controlled that puck? Yes but just like the tying goal against the Caps a few weeks back that Backstrom scored he didn't. Instead of scrambling and keeping that puck off LS's stick he prepares to whine about interference which led a goal and to us losing our timeout.

Second goal. PLEEEEASE. Short side when the shooter could not cut to the slot? Terrible goal to give up; especially at that time. "Key saves at key times". Not in this case.

Third goal. His fault? No. Stoppable? Yes. Schneider made better saves than that one would have been. Can't blame him for that but it was stoppable.

And for those blaming McD on that goal. You only have to look at Moore's positioning to know who is at fault. Mac tried to stop the pass; it hit his stick. The point man is Dom's responsibility and he came in too far, got out of position and left his guy open to finish the play.
 
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nevesis

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Nevesis,

You gotta stop. Every day we all sit and read your unrelenting defense of Hank's performance whether he is good or bad.

I know you're new here, but you should probably read what I post a little more carefully. I mentioned multiple times that the 2nd goal was soft and that he should have had it.

No one is denying it was a bad goal.
 

Deleted member 23124

Guest
Nevesis,

Bottom line; we lost last night because Cory Schneider was light years better than Hank. We had the better chances all night. CS came up huge. Hank played an average game. He made most of the routine saves and a few strong ones but at the end of the day, if both teams received the same goalie play, we win.

Schneider had an easy time last night for one main reason: he saw every puck that came toward him...and he saw every play develop and was able to move and set himself for the shot (prime example was the stop on Boyle).
 

nevesis

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Schneider had an easy time last night for one main reason: he saw every puck that came toward him...and he saw every play develop and was able to move and set himself for the shot (prime example was the stop on Boyle).

He did, but not all of it was easy. He also made some great, tough saves. He played excellent last night.

Hank played well outside of that one bad goal. If we had actual defense on the 1st and 3rd, we aren't even having this conversation because we win the game.
 

Blais to Win

Registered User
Dec 16, 2009
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Man defense is a good system IF you have the right type of personnel for it. Since AV was hired, there have been stretches where the team can pull it off, but there have also been stretches where it hasn't worked effectively and they struggle to execute the system.

Outside of a few months in 2014, I'm not sure if man defense was ever the right system for this team. It definitely isn't right now. One of the most important elements of this system is communication and on-ice awareness and there's been barely any of that this year.

Henrik must feel like it's the wild west out there most nights.
 

JHS

Registered User
Oct 11, 2013
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The biggest problem with this team is that AV seems to agree with you about the bold. I don't know if you've coached a sport at any competitive level (I have), but that's not how you succeed. You can HAVE a favored system/style of play. But you can't force it on a roster of guys who aren't built to play that system. It's like I said before--Staal and Girardi haven't just lost their talent. AV's system exposes their weaknesses and puts them out of position to utilize their strengths. That's bad for the team. But AV places "his system" over the reality of the team.

Torts' system was great for the team when he took over. He ultimately got fired for staying with that system when the dynamic of the team changed (ie: when he DID have the skill players and wanted them to play like a team full of fourth liners). Torts was fired for not adjusting his system to the reality of the roster. AV is in that exact scenario, with one exception--his system has NEVER been the right fit for many of these players, and it has cost us valuable assets.

Really good point and I agree with a lot here. I have coached a sport and continue to do so. I've been successful with coaching too. But coaching a youth sport is not equitable to coaching professional athletes. I will say this, any coach worth anything has a system( or plays) that he or she believes works best. If the coach chases a system to fit his players, than the coach is not running his team, the players are and I don't want a coach who adapts his system constantly.

As far as I can tell, AV's system relies on speedy forwards who can pressure the puck down low and create turnovers. His system also relies on speed through the neutral zone and quick outlet passes that moves the puck up the ice in a quick way. Notice the trend here? In every aspect of this situation, speed is essential to making this work. At some point, the players must execute this system with speed. If we honestly break down each Ranger and where his current skill set is out, we will most assuredly come to an agreement that the players are SLOWER and are more beat up from several successive years of long playoff runs! So that, to me, is essentially why the Rangers are less successful than prior years. It's not a flaw in AV's system, or a lack of adaptability-- it's simply the players are less able to execute his style of play because of all the success they have had in recent years and the toll that has taken on their bodies.

We can't now expect AV to take a step back and say, "ok well I've had success in the NHL for over 1,000 games. My current roster can't play the system as well as a few years ago. I guess I need to come up with a new system that I have no idea if it will work just to suit a temporary collection of players that could be disbanded at any time either by their choice or by the GM." That's honestly lossing total perspective of what a coach should do. AV's job is to make the players successful in his system- not adapt his system to make it more possible.

I'll also say this, a great deal of the NHL plays the same uptempo style the Rangers were successful playing. I believe that the Rangers success in recent years is a major influence on the other teams adopting a more uptempo style.

Now if we are talking player usage, then I will certainly struggle to defend some of his choices. Boyle is not a power play quarterback anymore and realistically barely scratches the top 6 and would not make the top 6 on many rosters. I'm not AV but I can only imagine he trusts him more than Yandle. Why Miller has not been played with Brassard all year is confusing but I'm certain he will now based on his latest streak. If AV pulls Miller off that line when Nash gets back I'll be stunned. Why AV picks fights with rookies, calling them out in public and all that seems to me to be an ok way of getting them motivated but may be an outdated tactic given it does not seem to work that well with Hayes. Yet, if you remember during the last 2 cup runs, the team has complemented AV on his steadiness.

I'm just asking people to consider that AV has had success( perhaps unprecedented was a bit much but 2 straight long playoff runs is incredible success for the New York Rangers) and success in the NHL is always earned and not often by luck!
 
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aufheben

#Norris4Fox
Jan 31, 2013
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Honestly the defense has been improved, although I doubt it's permanent. Edit: Ok maybe not that much lol.

history-1516-NYR.png
 

bl02

Registered User
Jan 13, 2014
32,446
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Guys who should take the blame for not starting yandle on the pp? Arniel or the head coach? If we are keeping yandle to try to help us get in the playoffs or trying to increase his trade value why the hell wouldn't he be starting every pp. We score one pp goal last night and that would have been the difference.
Mcdonagh sometimes shows indications he can be good on pp but no way is he better than yandle on the pp.
 

Deleted member 23124

Guest
Guys who should take the blame for not starting yandle on the pp? Arniel or the head coach? If we are keeping yandle to try to help us get in the playoffs or trying to increase his trade value why the hell wouldn't he be starting every pp. We score one pp goal last night and that would have been the difference.
Mcdonagh sometimes shows indications he can be good on pp but no way is he better than yandle on the pp.

All this talk about who should play and who should QB or run the powerplay is moot as long as they continue to have a less than productive powerplay to start with. And it won't matter until they finally decide to stop passing the puck at every chance, stop standing around the perimeter and, if they do happen to decide to move, go to the net. And, most important, SHOOT THE PUCK!!!
 

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