Volica
Papa Shango
- May 15, 2012
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Proposal: Rangers and Flames, around Buchnevich and Fox
- Thread starter bernmeister
- Start date
Rangediddy
The puck was in
- Oct 28, 2011
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This is just silly. You want us to pay as if he already is a surefire 1st line winger? Then you can pay us for Fox as if he's already the next Brian Leech.
treple13
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
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No way do I give Fox up for that and no way do I potentially ADD a 2nd rounder to that. That's a brutal trade. There's two years to sign him and no real reason to assume he won't sign. I wouldn't give up Fox for anything remotely in that range. That's just bad asset management.
So Flames fans were saying they wouldn't do the deal when they were GETTING the two second rounders, so you make the deal even worse for us?
CraigsList
In Conroy We Trust
We are not sure if Fox is even going to sign with us. I want him to be with us too, but put yourself in his shoes: You've got to battle it out with Hamilton, Hamonic, Stone, and even Andersson on the right side. If he can play left side, that is a whole different story. After Harvard, he doesn't even have to sign with us if he didn't want to. If I was him, and I got a solid offer from a team from the States with a better chance to crack the roster, I am going to go with him. Lastly, we are in dire need of more impact forward prospects who would be ready to go in 2-3 years. We'd essentially be moving a 3rd round pick in 2016 for a 1st round pick in 2018. Tell me how that's poor asset management? Treliving has already been risky enough with giving our first for Hamonic, it's time to play it safe and possibly ship a very good prospect for a good return if the chance rises.
treple13
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
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Because Fox has more value than that NOW. Why not trade Gaudreau for a second rounder since we got him for a fourth? You don't trade players for less than their value. A lot can change in two years and maybe that right side looks different.
Lays
Registered User
- Jan 22, 2017
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Nope.
Buch has high upside and had the 3rd lowest TOI on the team this year and produced very well. In the beginning of the year when he was getting consistent 1st line time he produced like a 1st liner, he’s about to breakout big next season if we get a coach who knows how to properly use him. He said this year he was afraid of making risky plays and instead went for the safe plays to try and not get benched, his confidence was so low this year and it showed except for the beginning of the year. When he has confidence, he’s dominant
Buch has high upside and had the 3rd lowest TOI on the team this year and produced very well. In the beginning of the year when he was getting consistent 1st line time he produced like a 1st liner, he’s about to breakout big next season if we get a coach who knows how to properly use him. He said this year he was afraid of making risky plays and instead went for the safe plays to try and not get benched, his confidence was so low this year and it showed except for the beginning of the year. When he has confidence, he’s dominant
Flamesfan62
Registered User
One Winged Angel
You Can't Escape
So you rob Peter to pay Paul?
Not smart at all. Like I said, no explanation. What young wingers are there after Buchnevich? Don't tell me Tambellini or Gropp.
Not sure where all the anger from Monument and EEE is coming from.
Disagree, sure. Passionately, yes.
But I expect better from you two who have demonstrated open mind previously
back to this deal
I said, Zuc is 15OA, value and I mentioned it to underscore Buch, a build piece, is worth more than Zuc, a rental
Buch + 2018 picks would be immediate asset
going the other way, 2019 picks are delayed
Fox would instantly become NYR property, but it is unclear how ready he is as to playing immediately or if he needs seasoning.
There is also risk he does not sign, although my OP provides contingency for that.
For all of the above, that is why Rangers MUST also have 2019 1st, setting aside how high you rate talent and production of each player.
Now, Monument, given that, yes, there is a lot of risk here, but there is significant chance to be a win win here.
Fox does not see a quick path to NHL w/Flames, understandable; obviously he would compete IMMEDIATELY with Shat-Pionk-ADA. There are many scenarios. ADA could be slow starter but continues to find NHL game esp w/out AV. Fox COULD hit a wall entering NHL and take a while to recover. If so, this deal could be major stupid. But there is also based on current production chance that Fox can make jump to NHL w/out minor league stint.
Even if he starts in the A to get max mins while roster shakes out, he is likely to do more than a cup of coffee by 2019.
Taking into account all factors, a firm insistence on 2019 1st + Fox is appropriate and while other adds reduce that, it is still correct as to making this worthwhile even if we risk Buch turning into a star AND Fox also simultaneously going bust. Odds are both are successful, NY gets position of need and a pick.
Monument raises a fair point: lack of Ws for NYR right now.
My answers are 4 fold...
* First, although at some point balance needs to be addressed, when you don't have enough horses, you do what is necessary to add significant talent regardless of roster imbalance, which you hope to correct later. But the consideration to not obtain that talent bends, buckles and breaks in recognition of the need to obtain it.
*Second, there are direct [close enough] replacements.
We are hoping Chytl and Andersson emerge as Cs, a reasonable expectation. They are available as Ws, and I have said unless we get significant overpayment we keep Zib and I want him bookended for max effectiveness w/Kreider. So Chytil is a keeper, presumably at pivot. Zib and Andy can provide Ws if not moved.
*Third, there are indirect replacements by trade -
Particularly if Rykov, Lindgren, Hajek, plus next year Sean Day, those are LDs, we can move Skjei if desired/necessary.
*Fourth, there are FA signing options -
Grabner is lower 6 unless he plays w/Hayes likely 2nd line, but bottom 6 adds may push incumbents up the ladder a bit. Then there is little hope we sign a James Neal, but there is Kovy. I am conditionally vs Kovy, but he is a 35+ contract, so I think you have options w/bonuses, etc. Sign him for 2.5m 1 yr as a stopgap, make sure everybody is happy, and with proviso he gets another 3m if Rangers trade him as rental, which is a way for us to add assets.
Berns a good guy but unfortunately this is true with all his proposals.
I'm not angry Bern. I just can't stroke out over proposals every day. I'm sorry. It's for the best. It's not you, it's me. I don't want to ruin your fun. I just can't be a part of it without the top number of my blood pressure doubling the bottom number.
Kaapo Cabana
Next name: Admiral Kakkbar
One Winged Angel
You Can't Escape
Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm angry, let's clarify that right away. I don't ever get "angry" on here.
There is no logic for dealing away the team's best young winger from an area of need to deal for a player that falls into an area of strength. The logic is backwards. They need to deal defenders/defense prospects for wingers if anything and that's not even a smart course of action fight now, due to organizational depth.
If they want to deal Spooner or Namestnikov for help on defense, then that's fine. Neither fit the trajectory of the team going forward.
Again, this doesn't make any sense. You're robbing peter to pay paul, as I said before. It doesn't make any sense, especially to deal off an established, young, cost controlled asset like Skjei.
You look like you're trying to get every player on the team on an ELC, except Kreider and that's not a plausible solution for anything.
Don't see where or how this works.
whatre you saying, he wouldn't ink with the rags because the fish were his boyhood team?
SaintMorose
Registered User
- Jul 21, 2009
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