Rumor: Rakell to Sibir Novosibirsk

[Magic Man]

Those were never the two options. Bernier was never going to be the reason for Fowler leaving, and isn't going to be the reason now. At the end of the day, it was always and is still going to get back to where the salary number drives things in Anaheim, not the cap number. Saving $1M from Bernier to a significantly worse #2 (or #1B) wouldn't have made keeping Fowler on $4M or another player in that range palatable.

And while I'm optimistic about Gibson's future, I think that would not have been a wise spot to save money. I haven't seen what work he has put in over the summer, but he had some way to go before being thrust in a #1 role with nothing but a low-end backup to fall back on is a smart move.

The difference in cap hit between Bernier and Enroth is currently 3.4M, add that to the 7.52M the Ducks currently have in cap space and they're sitting at 10.92M in cap space. Which is plenty to sign Rakell and Lindholm, while not moving out any bodies. The extra cap hit from Bernier is directly impacting the Ducks ability to re-sign their RFA's. The Leafs were only able to get Enroth because they were able to move Bernier to the Ducks. If the Ducks don't do that, it would have taken out their top competition for Enroth.

how much salary did toronto retain in the bernier deal ?

0 dollars.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Dear Ducks,

Give him to us we will sign him.

 

[dracom]

Dear Ducks,

Give him to us we will sign him.

Aren't you a Flames fan? Shouldn't you be worried about re-signing your own RFA forward?

 

[Vipers31]

The difference in cap hit between Bernier and Enroth is currently 3.4M, add that to the 7.52M the Ducks currently have in cap space and they're sitting at 10.92M in cap space. Which is plenty to sign Rakell and Lindholm, while not moving out any bodies. The extra cap hit from Bernier is directly impacting the Ducks ability to re-sign their RFA's.

That's a short term view that doesn't matter too much. The real dollars will get back to driving things in Anaheim, as they always have. Re-signing all RFAs and not moving out bodies by saving $1.25M in real dollars was never a viable plan and still isn't. The current delay isn't tragic. And it's rather superficial to suggest that Murray would have just signed Rakell and Lindholm had he not traded for Bernier by now. They are long-term pieces, and their upcoming contracts will be longer than Bernier's. Unlike other organisations, he doesn't have money to burn, even if it makes some negotiations uncomfortably long.

The Leafs were only able to get Enroth because they were able to move Bernier to the Ducks. If the Ducks don't do that, it would have taken out their top competition for Enroth.

Yeah, I have no doubts we could have gone for Enroth, but I'm a lot more confident in Bernier, even considering his cap hit.

 

[Vipers31]

how much salary did toronto retain in the bernier deal ?

They didn't retain salary - by retaining, you automatically retain both salary and cap hit. They did however keep Bernier along until July 1st passed and when he was due their $2M bonus cheque that they paid. On the Ducks, he's only on the books for $2.15M in salary.

 

[glenbuis]

They didn't retain salary - by retaining, you automatically retain both salary and cap hit. They did however keep Bernier along until July 1st passed and when he was due their $2M bonus cheque that they paid. On the Ducks, he's only on the books for $2.15M in salary.

correct me if im wrong though but would his cap hit still be 4.15

 

[BB88]

That's a short term view that doesn't matter too much. The real dollars will get back to driving things in Anaheim, as they always have. Re-signing all RFAs and not moving out bodies by saving $1.25M in real dollars was never a viable plan and still isn't. The current delay isn't tragic. And it's rather superficial to suggest that Murray would have just signed Rakell and Lindholm had he not traded for Bernier by now. They are long-term pieces, and their upcoming contracts will be longer than Bernier's. Unlike other organisations, he doesn't have money to burn, even if it makes some negotiations uncomfortably long.

It doesn't matter that Bernier has just 1 year left on his contract when today his cap hit is 4.15M and the best young defenseman with Rakell is without a contract, Berniers cap hit matters quite a lot today.

Lack of cap space is the biggest problem, not money.

 

[Exit Dose]

correct me if im wrong though but would his cap hit still be 4.15

Yep.

 

[Vipers31]

correct me if im wrong though but would his cap hit still be 4.15

You're correct. That's what the debate is about, basically. The Ducks have been a budget team for many years, so the cap hit usually doesn't matter to them, at all - the salary number is the only that mattered for them. Right now, for the first time in a while, the Ducks are actually near the cap - temporarily. It was always known that there would be some turnover this summer, and moves were always going to happen. They're taking a little longer, but that's about it.

Again I'd say it matters quite a lot when you have the best young defenseman and Rakell unsigned with 7.5M cap space.
It doesn't matter that Bernier has just 1 year left on his contract when today his cap hit is 4.15M and causing problems for Anaheim.

We can talk about problems caused when we actually start the season with Lindholm and/or Rakell sitting out, and even then it would be pure speculation that Murray would just cave in on their demands just because there's more cap space available.

Lack of cap space is the biggest problem, not money.

Lack of cap space is a current problem. Lack of money is just as much of a consideration, and will remain one unlike cap space. Unless the owners decided to change their approach without letting anyone on the outside know.

 

[BB88]

You're correct. That's what the debate is about, basically. The Ducks have been a budget team for many years, so the cap hit usually doesn't matter to them, at all - the salary number is the only that mattered for them. Right now, for the first time in a while, the Ducks are actually near the cap - temporarily. It was always known that there would be some turnover this summer, and moves were always going to happen. They're taking a little longer, but that's about it.


We can talk about problems caused when we actually start the season with Lindholm and/or Rakell sitting out, and even then it would be pure speculation that Murray would just cave in on their demands just because there's more cap space available.


Lack of cap space is a current problem. Lack of money is just as much of a consideration, and will remain one unlike cap space. Unless the owners decided to change their approach without letting anyone on the outside know.

Do you honestly think he can sign them both with less than 7.5M?

 

[Vipers31]

Do you honestly think he can sign them both with less than 7.5M?

If you look at what comparable guys to them got on bridge deals, why would you doubt that? It's not going to be enough to get considerable term on them, obviously, which might hurt in a year/two.

I'm not necessarily saying that will happen on its own. There can be plenty moving parts. It's not such a two-dimensional situation.

 

[Wanderson]

If you look at what comparable guys to them got on bridge deals, why would you doubt that? It's not going to be enough to get considerable term on them, obviously, which might hurt in a year/two.

I'm not necessarily saying that will happen on its own. There can be plenty moving parts. It's not such a two-dimensional situation.

Why would they even agree on bridge deals?

 

[Vipers31]

Why would they even agree on bridge deals?

Because they want to be in the NHL, is my best guess. They are RFAs - it's a bad spot to negotiate. Unless they get an offer sheet to sign, they can take what they get from the Ducks, or play for even less in Sweden or the KHL, which I suppose neither has any interest in. A guy like Subban ultimately didn't get around a bridge deal, either.

 

[Wanderson]

Because they want to be in the NHL, is my best guess. They are RFAs - it's a bad spot to negotiate. Unless they get an offer sheet to sign, they can take what they get from the Ducks, or play for even less in Sweden or the KHL, which I suppose neither has any interest in. A guy like Subban ultimately didn't get around a bridge deal, either.

Subban is a very bad example. He got nothing to do with Anaheim.

Vatanen nor Silfverberg got no bridge deal.

There is no reason for Rakell to accept less money than Silferberg (3,75). And why should Hampus get less money than Vatanen (4,875)?

 

[Vipers31]

Subban is a very bad example. He got nothing to do with Anaheim.

It's not just about Anaheim. It's not a bad example, either - he was another great young player in the same situation. Like numerous before and after.

Vatanen nor Silfverberg got no bridge deal.

Yes, they did. Vatanen had a two-year, $1.265M bridge deal after his ELC. Silfverberg had a one-year, $850k (!) bridge deal.

This is Lindholm's 2nd contract. Those two got bridge deals on their 2nd contracts and now earned their bigger 3rd ones.

There is no reason for Rakell to accept less money than Silferberg (3,75). And why should Hampus get less money than Vatanen (4,875)?

Because of what I said above, and because the money depends on negotiating power more than what you do on the ice. When guys have little time left before becoming UFAs, they can demand more. That's complete standard in the entire league.

 

[Wanderson]

It's not just about Anaheim. It's not a bad example, either - he was another great young player in the same situation. Like numerous before and after.


Yes, they did. Vatanen had a two-year, $1.265M bridge deal after his ELC. Silfverberg had a one-year, $850k (!) bridge deal.

This is Lindholm's 2nd contract. Those two got bridge deals on their 2nd contracts and now earned their bigger 3rd ones.


Because of what I said above, and because the money depends on negotiating power more than what you do on the ice. When guys have little time left before becoming UFAs, they can demand more. That's complete standard in the entire league.

True!

I forgot to scroll down
https://www.capfriendly.com/players/sami-vatanen

 

[BB88]

If you look at what comparable guys to them got on bridge deals, why would you doubt that? It's not going to be enough to get considerable term on them, obviously, which might hurt in a year/two.

I'm not necessarily saying that will happen on its own. There can be plenty moving parts. It's not such a two-dimensional situation.

So we can say the Bernier cap hit is hurting the team.

Going to be a fight to get Lindholm to sign a bridge after seeing what the other guys this offseason.

 

[Dr Quincy]

You're assuming that they haven't planned for that. That's just absurd.

No, what is absurd is to think that "the plan" called for neither guy to have a contract at the start of camp. In June you may have been right, in July, in August.... On September 24 it's crazy to think that having them both unsigned is part of the plan.

 

[Vipers31]

So we can say the Bernier cap hit is hurting the team.

You can say a lot of things. We'll see how things shake out. Another time: it's superficial at best to believe Murray would just give them what they want because he has more cap space in a Bernier-less scenario. He's not short on leverage in that negotiation.

Going to be a fight to get Lindholm to sign a bridge after seeing what the other guys this offseason.

Again, unless there's an offer sheet, he doesn't have much to fight with, such is the life of RFAs. And it's not like a bridge doesn't come with some upside for him. If he continues to develop the way he has the past couple years, he'll be a richer man for it. In a vacuum, I'm sure the Ducks would prefer to give him term like the other guys got, but the big picture might not allow them this luxury just yet. But things could look very different two hours, two days or two weeks from now - we can just wait and see what happens.

 

[Nordic*]

Didn't Lindholm call out ownership saying they were cheap, Or was that something else.

He did.

And they are a budget team, so in a sense he's correct.

 

[dracom]

No, what is absurd is to think that "the plan" called for neither guy to have a contract at the start of camp. In June you may have been right, in July, in August.... On September 24 it's crazy to think that having them both unsigned is part of the plan.

Murray did say it's possible the situation could last into late September. Not sure of the exact quote, but Murray is totally willing to wait.

 

[Exit Dose]

No, what is absurd is to think that "the plan" called for neither guy to have a contract at the start of camp. In June you may have been right, in July, in August.... On September 24 it's crazy to think that having them both unsigned is part of the plan.

Seeing as Bob Murray was with the team during Bobby Ryan's negotiations, I don't doubt that he understood it was a possibility. Honestly, you guys sound like you've only been following this league for a few years. This isn't that uncommon. Considering Murray's track record with our RFAs, I'll trust his plan over a handful of internet randos, regardless of how much hubris they've built up playing NHL '17.

 

[Johnnybegood13]

Anaheim is a mess, $24m tied up in three 31 year olds for the next 5 years and can't seem to sign the future in Rakell and Lindholm.

 

[Vipers31]

Seeing as Bob Murray was with the team during Bobby Ryan's negotiations, I don't doubt that he understood it was a possibility. Honestly, you guys sound like you've only been following this league for a few years. This isn't that uncommon. Considering Murray's track record with our RFAs, I'll trust his plan over a handful of internet randos, regardless of how much hubris they've built up playing NHL '17.

This. It's the same pointless turmoil around here every time some negotiations take longer than it would seem most pleasing.

 

[EK47]

Just really hope he doesn't go to the KHL. But the KHL threat seems more like an ill-adviced bargaining chip in this case